Stealth, traffic safety, and theft avoidance

[Should be working]

1. A lot of posters write about liking stealthy e-bikes because it makes cops less likely to stop them. A few posts I've seen also mention stealth as part of the fun in car traffic. I'm pretty new to e-biking (thanks for all the help I got here some weeks back), and I am wondering if actually having a non-stealthy bike is actually safer in car traffic. Motorists who see I've got an e-bike might be more aware that I have more speed than a regular biker and can make moves they wouldn't otherwise expect.

My in-laws in Switzerland say that e-bikes have produced a whole new slew of accidents because motorists are not expecting the kind of speed and maneuvering potential that e-bikes have when they see someone on a bike.

I'm a low-speed, conservative-riding middle-aged lady, so I'm not doing any wild moves or anything, but I think I would actually PREFER to be more obvious as an e-biker given the expectations of cars for how bikes 'behave'. Am I mistaken?

2. On the other hand, stealth is an advantage for avoiding bike theft, but I'm so paranoid about this that despite spending a lot of money on an Abus folding lock, I never take my bike on errands because that would mean locking it up outside somewhere (as opposed to in my office or in my house).

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=abus+6500&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&resnum=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=702&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=6279077464091246781&sa=X&ei=Cu7DT4-lLeeQiQLx5-lp&ved=0CHAQ8wIwAA#ps-sellers

I have been thinking about getting the Fahgeddaboudit and using that in addition to the Abus lock. Would it then be ok to lock up the bike in a shopping area (according to Sheldon Brown methods, etc.)?? Or would it be better to invest in stealth?

 

[BATFINK]

I have the fagehettaboutit, but I'm paranoid too. Bottom line is if they want your bike they will take it no matter what lock is on it. If your really worried then get it insured.

I do notice cars don't expect you to be so fast. You do have to be cautious especially at junctions where they will pull out on you because they think they will be gone before you even get close and some are surprised to see you out there drivers window 2 seconds later.

I would recommend using speed to keep ahead of traffic and not in between it or approaching obstacles.

Being as visible as possible is the best way to avoid being hit by larger vehicles and driving slow when amongst traffic and looking well ahead at what is happening on the road in front of you.

Ebikes will get more and more popular and maybe the drivers will be more aware of faster travelling bikes but I'd say it will be 10 years before that happens and that's only if legislation allows us to still be on the roads.

Sent using Endless-Sphere Mobile app

 

[amberwolf]

Honestly, from my experience it makes zero difference if the drivers know you can make maneuvers or go at speeds they don't expect. They drive like idiots anyway, and if it looks like a bicycle then they'll treat it like one (with little or no respect, belieiving it has no right to the road).

The only way you will be safer on the road is by thinking "they're all out to get me" and riding to avoid that, with full awareness of the road around you, and all the people and whatnot that are just off the road, too. Ride according to rules of the road, and leave yourself clearance for emergency avoidance maneuvers in all situations. If there isn't going to be room for such a maneuver, don't enter the situation.


The only thing that has made any difference to the way people treat me on my normal-lookin gbikes has been lighting, when I ride at night. if it is lit up like a motorcycle, then even if I am going slow, they go around me by the entire lane, usually, and don't generally suddenly pull out in front of me from driveways and such, because if I *am* a motorcycle, it might hurt their pretty car if they hit me or I hit them.

This does not apply during the daytime, however. Most of the time in broad daylight, regardless of lighting, they treat my normal-looking bikes like bikes (meaning, like I don't exist, even though I KNOW they can and do see me).


Only on my huge and heavy CrazyBIke2 do I get any road respect during daytime.


So, my best advice is to ride like they're out to get you, and never put yourself into a situation where they could.



Stealth vs police: Here in Phoenix, it doesn't really matter as long as you're following the rules of the road and riding at legal speeds. Never been hassled about it being motorized, and have actually been thanked for having the right lighting on there with the turn signals taillight, headlight, and brake lights and whatnot. Same on both CrazyBike2 and my regular bikes. I've actually been hassled far more before I started motorizing them, since I prefer to ride in the road even on a regular bike (sidewalks suck for a lot of reasons), and as a pedal bike I'd be going less than half the speed of an electric, and the pedal bike would be less than a fifth, sometimes a fourth, of the typical traffic speeds.



Theft avoidance--don't leave it unattended. That's the only way you can avoid theft.

Make it look like junk, conceal anything expensive-looking or take it with you, don't have display units (like a CA or a GPS or whatever) on there, don't use expensive components on the bike itself, etc. Those can work, if there are better-looking bikes when the thieves come. But if they're there, they'll steal *something* if the opportunity arises, even if it is junk. Only if somethinb better is there with it is yours less likely to be nicked.

Lock it up good with multiple types of lock, and it will slow them down enough that they will choose a bike with less locks. Whatever is faster is their target. Takes 5 to 30 seconds to cut a lock, if you have the right tool, and it doesn't matter if there are bystanders--they have no vested interest in stopping a thief, unless they're police. battery powered angle grinders can cut thru stuff really fast, even hardened locks. If they carry one of those and a pair of big bolt cutters, they can get thru most locks so fast many people wouldn't even take notice.


But none of htose rules works all the time. Somttimes it's just your unlucky day. So don't leave it unattended if you wanna keep it.

 

[flyinmonkie]

I don't think there is anything you can do to your electric bike to make it stand out more to drivers in the situations you want it to stand out. When they are looking at you head on (at an intersection you are coming up to) or from behind, you will always look like a bike. Unless you have a scooter or moped style ebike, drivers will always see a bike.

I think Amberwolf has hit the nail on the head for night time riding. Light you bike brightly and people with instantly think motorcycle. But during the day you will be a bike in the mind of the drivers. So as Amberwolf said, ride like no one sees you or they are trying to hit you.

As far as security, it depends on where you live. If you live in a big city with high bike theft, then there isn't much you can do other than what has already been said. If you live in a small to medium city or town with little bike theft, then a good lock and make sure it goes through the frame not just the wheel. I guess you could have a bunch of wires and electronics (not displays) hanging off the bike and it might look scary and dangerous to touch. Make it look like they might get zapped if they grab the bike.

Clay

 

[dogman dan]

In the USA at least, you can count on cars not seeing you, or seeing you and trying to kill you anyway. They simply think it's up to you to dodge the cars. Legaly it's up to them to yeild when you have the right of way, but practically, you have to ride like you don't.

That includes doing what they expect sometimes, including being slow. Soon as you do exceed 25 mph, you sure better have your escape plan worked out ahead of time. You won't stop in time, so figure out where to swerve to in a left cross, right cross, or a crowding. At higher speeds, take the lane of course, but you'll still get left crossed. Taking the lane at least eliminates the right cross, but not the leftie or crowding.

The cars will never drive any different if you are stealth or not. Stealth is for flying under the radar of cops. But how you do that at 30 mph plus is a mystery to me.

I only know two effective methods for theft proofing. You already practice one of them, don't leave it out of sight in a vulnerable place ever. The other method that works is to make it so dang ugly even the homeless won't touch it with a ten foot pole. A huge quantity of duct tape, stickers, painted over dirt, that sort of thing. Or it could be pretty to you, but too individualized to ever sell if stolen. Make it an art bike. The basic idea is to make it too hard to resell to be worth stealing. Or look not worth anything.

Big lock, and good insurance is the best less effective other method. Combined with fast shopping, and time of day. Lowlifes tend to sleep in, so early AM is when I park my bike outside stores. But a pita to rebuild a bike over and over if it keeps getting stolen. GPS tracker is a great way to recover a stolen bike, but that method almost requires the cops to be using your bike as a bait bike.

A freind of mine had three new honda 750's stolen in one year. Tired of going down and buying a new one constantly on the insurance, he took a bottle of motor oil and poured it all over number 4, then never washed it. 10 years later, the bike was still being parked at bars with the keys in it.

 

[Ykick]

My in-laws in Switzerland say that e-bikes have produced a whole new slew of accidents because motorists are not expecting the kind of speed and maneuvering potential that e-bikes have when they see someone on a bike.

I suspect these and similar "notions" to be a product of misinformed media who try to find creative angles to pitch stories to their publications. Sorta like stories of the Leaf range anxiety or these idjits in NYC who attempt to portray eBikes as more unsafe than pedal bikes.

Fact is, eBikes are much safer than pedal bikes and here's a few reasons why:

1) Smoother control and and less wobbly when pulling away from stops and/or moving slowly.

2) Not holding up traffic which helps reduce road rage/anxiety.

3) Being passed by fewer cars inherently reduces your chances of being hit by one.

4) eBike riders are much more likely to make complete stops, grant right-of-ways, etc.

5) One more eBike on the road is one less car/truck...

This is just a few that came to mind but I'm sure ES members could fill a thread about the "safety virtues" of eBikes as transportation.

There is no foolproof theft security except to sleep well armed in the same room with your bike.

 

[BikeFanatic]

Amberwolf says

The only thing that has made any difference to the way people treat me on my normal-looking bikes has been lighting

Other have already said it but I find a very bright headlight, at night, gives me much more respect on the road, first off they see me for sure, and secondly they think I am a motorcycle.
Thats my opinion anyway. Also when you have new bike you are so paraniod, I know that feeling.
I use several locks at work, easy cuz I leave them there, and when shopping two differnt types of lock, so they may require 2 tools, and Like dogman says I am a quick shopper.

Have fun out there

 

[Should be working]

My kids laugh at me every morning in my bright yellow jacket, fluorescent helmet, and fluorescent panniers, with my LED lights on day and night. But then once they ended up driving past me one afternoon and my daughter saw why it was important.

Never occurred to me that night riding is safer than daytime, I was always afraid to do it. But definitely my LED would look like a motorcycle in the dark.

 

[Should be working]

So before going to a dentist appt yesterday, I bought a second hefty lock, $150, 15-rated Abus U-lock, and used that together with my Bordo folding lock, and followed Sheldon Brown, and locked the bike in front of a cafe with people sitting outside. For my 30 min teeth cleaning. All was fine. The bike store that sold me the U-lock reiterated that it is about where you lock, and for how long. I never understood why it is safer to leave a bike for 60 min vs. 6 hrs--is it just a lower probability that professional bike thieves with tools will come along? Or do they need to wait around for people to disappear and so time really does make a difference? Is it better to lock up near a homeless guy selling papers (he is a witness) or worse (he might be affiliated with professional bike thieves??)? Is it better to lock up where there are just two bike racks instead of a lot of them, because bike thieves are less likely to hang around where there are fewer bikes? Am I going to go insane worrying about this??

Now that I've got about 15 lbs of lock to schlep around with me, I guess I'm ok trying out short errands. I felt best about parking in front of the cafe--maybe I can only do errands near cafes.

 

[binlagin]

I have a heavy chain and lock(20$)... anyone who's out looking for a bike to steal will have no problem getting through this but I try and park my bike out of site of bike thieves (never park in common bike locking spots) and I keep unsupervised time to a minimum.

But in reality though... who's going to steal a 100lbs bike that won't power on(I have removable switch). Most thieves are going to want to pedal the bike away... you certainly can't get to far with my bike without power.

 

[amberwolf]

I never understood why it is safer to leave a bike for 60 min vs. 6 hrs--is it just a lower probability that professional bike thieves with tools will come along? Or do they need to wait around for people to disappear and so time really does make a difference?

More time unattended = higher probability of theft, for lots of reasons.

One might be: If a bike is unusual, then it will be noticed and looked at by people who were there when it showed up, and they'll also probably remember the person with it. After they're gone, no one will know who was with it, so anyone coming up to take it could be the owner--why stop them or question them?


As for worrying--you can only do what you can do, and after that hope it stays where you left it. If you really want theft deterrence, you'd have to keep it with you. Next best is hiring someone you trust to watch it for you. After that, the options are locks to slightly delay or deter theft, all up to alarms to let you know it is being stolen, GPS tracking after it's stolen, etc.

Remember that cars have all those things, too, yet there are lots of them never recovered, evne though they are MANY times the size of your bike.

If someone wants it, they'll get it, if it's unattended.

 

[Punx0r]

Or a device that detects sustained motion and then puts 50KV through the frame

 

[veloman]

I don't think your fear of bike theft is rational. You just need to lock it up smart and you will realize that it is fine. The Faghettaboutit U lock is a very good choice and only 4lbs, if you have bike racks to lock to. No reason to carry a 15lb chain. I bought the New York Legend chain and immediately sold it. It was way overkill for my needs. I lock up for at most 2 hours in very public areas, among other bikes. I use an Ongaurd Bulldog mini, only 2lbs. You would need a power tool to cut it. A bike friend of mine says I don't need to worry about my ebike because it's so funky looking and theives wouldn't know what to do with it since there is essentially no ebike market here.

I've actually rarely been cut off due to motorists thinking I am going slow. It's actually quite surprising how well most people DO judge my speed (which is usually 22-26mph). They see me and wait. Maybe it's because the area I am in is fairly bike aware.

My advice is to get top notch disk brakes, wear bright colors, use high output lights, and ride as if you are invisible as much as possible. Anticipate motorist actions, and always have an escape route. If you do this there is a very very small window where a driver will hit you, something like <1 second duration.

 

[motomech]

I use stealth so I can ride it like a bicycle, on sidewalks, across athletic fields, parks, trails, etc. But I ride at bicycle speeds.
I always pick my routes to avoid traffic as much as possible, it's part of the fun for me.
But I'm retired and don't haVE to be anywhere in a hurry.

 

[aroundqube]

Theft avoidance- another deterrent in addition to location and locking is to take your pedals with you when you leave.Once you have the pedal threads wire brushed and oiled it is easy to do.The catch to it is that one pedal has a right hand thread ( turn clockwise to tighten ) and the other pedal has a left hand thread ( turn counter clockwise to tighten ). The easy way to remember- with the bike standing upright, turn the wrench towards the back of the bike to remove the pedals.

 

[MattyCiii]

A bike friend of mine says I don't need to worry about my ebike because it's so funky looking and thieves wouldn't know what to do with it...

I've been told that more than a dozen times by friends (who admittedly are not bike thieves, as far as I know). I imagine even the dumbest bike thief is thinking about where to unload the merchandise before they glance over the shoulder and reach for the bolt cutters... Point being, if the bike is strange (or ugly) enough looking, the probability of theft goes down.

I've actually rarely been cut off due to motorists thinking I am going slow. It's actually quite surprising how well most people DO judge my speed (which is usually 22-26mph). They see me and wait. Maybe it's because the area I am in is fairly bike aware.

I experience the same thing, but I'm moving at pedal power speed. Lane position is as powerful, if not more, than actual speed. Also I think a lot has to do with vehicle "body language". With 20 years driving experience, I can maintain more road respect in my daughter's tiny VW than she can (with 1 year driving under her belt) in my full size van with the massive - and dented - steel bumpers.

How we drive our vehicles - big and small - can signal intent. People can and usually do interpret that intent and respond accordingly. It's more than eye contact. Lane position, and small changes to position within one's lane, can tell other drivers far more about intent than blinkers or brake lights.

 

[GCinDC]

[youtube]lbQu_IVUURA[/youtube]

 

[chvidgov.bc.ca]

I think it is a good idea to use a very bright front flasher in daylight conditions, with a fairly high flash rate. I've observed that it makes cars waiting to make a right turn in front of you onto the road you are on hesitate and let you pass. There is something about the flash - it "boggles the mind", producing hesitation.. It could also help with the dreaded left cross turn in front of you. With a rear Mirrycle mirror, I ride like a normal bike when there is traffic coming up on me, but take the lane when there is no traffic, avoiding the dooring situation, and also helping with the right turners mentioned earlier. These approaches all help, and I've got a trike moving up to 30mph so there is some strategy involved. So I have to slow down some to let the traffic chain pass, with the trike, to not get doored - leaving enough time to both see the traffic chain and any potential door openers.

 

[amberwolf]

Car headlights and motorcycle signals/brake-taillights can help, too:

Same bike, lighting conditions, place, time, etc., with just the bicycle-type lighting that comes with teh Fusin kit (which is actually pretty bright for bike lighting):

The car headlight is pretty bright even in the daytime, pic taken from 15-feet (ish) away:

by standing where the spot is shining on the wall:

My CrazyBike2 and DayGlo Avenger are lit similarly.

 

[Ykick]

Before y'all turn your bikes into blinding attention grabbers do a little research about object and/or target fixation.

Visibility is often a good thing but there are some drivers who may respond in ways that aren't always what you might expect or desire. Seriously, they fixate on YOU and it's usually a bad outcome! My experience has taught me to ride as if invisible and use lighting and loud noise makers as another tool in the bag of defensive riding techniques.

There's no one thing that will do it all except for the mush between your ears!