Suspension seat

[Zambam]

Anyone try this particular saddle or this type of saddle? It does not rely on thick & wide foam padding for shock absorption, instead the thin flexible seat bends and flexes to absorb shock.

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[Chalo]

Anyone try this particular saddle or this type of saddle? It does not rely on thick & wide foam padding for shock absorption, instead the thin flexible seat bends and flexes to absorb shock.

All plastic and leather saddles do that to one degree or another. That one does it without padding (or enough width for most riders), so it's uncomfortable. It could be tolerable for some folks if they wear good padded shorts.

Seats like that tend to become eye-catching souvenirs at bike shops after their owners come in to get a real saddle installed.

 

[Zambam]

What's a real saddle? I need one that's not very wide or too thick since I don't have a big butt.

 

[Chalo]

It's less the size of your butt, and more the spacing of your sit bones and (especially) your preferred riding position that dictate how wide a saddle you'll do best with. The more upright you sit, the more you will benefit from a wide supportive saddle. If you like your handlebars low and back flat, you'll need a narrow saddle for that to work well. Also if you ride off road on steep terrain and need to be able to slide back off the rear of the saddle sometimes, you should have a narrow saddle for that.

P.S. -
"Real saddle" means a saddle a reasonable person would want to sit on voluntarily. Agreeable cover material, some padding, no sharp edges, etc.

 

[Zambam]

I measured my sit bone width to be 110 mm. The stock saddle on my Arrow 9 is wide (10") and thick (5") which makes the seat height a bit on the high side (on lowest adjustment) for me to mount the bike w/o leaning it 45 degrees. I was hoping the "suspension seat" would lower the seat height and provide better cushioning than a narrow and thin road bike type saddle. I ride pretty much upright. The chain has been removed so no pedaling. On big bumps and potholes I stand on the pedals to absorb the shock. What's the best way to lock the crank arms so the pedals act as foot pegs?

I ordered this one https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2255...st_main.5.73f11802fBaEgF&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa which looks to be similar to the one linked to above. For $5 I'm willing to give it a try.

 

[Chalo]

I was hoping the "suspension seat" would lower the seat height and provide better cushioning than a narrow and thin road bike type saddle.

Bike saddles have been providing that kind of suspension since the 19th century when they were made of leather or woven cords. In 1962 Selle Unicanitor made the first nylon shell saddle that worked the same way (and also lacked padding in its original version). Selle Italia Flite, introduced in 1990, pushed the same idea to a minimalist extreme, and resulted in many me-too designs such as the "suspension saddle" you asked about.

The only unusual thing about what you found is its Spiderman motif and suspiciously uncomfortable looking construction.

Maybe try mounting the cranks on the same side of the bottom bracket spindle so they hang down side by side. They won't be locked in place, but they'll return to position by themselves.

 

[From-A-To-B]

One previously discussed option for pedals that convert to pegs: Video of Pedals that switch to foot pegs But I guess that if you're hunting for a $5 brand-new saddle, you're also not in the market for some $360 cranks.

I'm a cheapie about lots of things and I love prowling the used parts bins at my local bike shop. I feel great about utilizing second-life parts because it keeps stuff out of the trash, it saves me money, and the dollars I do spend go back to the lovely people at the community bike shop. If you're looking for a well-fitting saddle and have a community bike shop nearby, go there and purchase two or three saddles that seem like a good fit for your tush and try them out. Then, re-donate the saddles you don't use.

 

[Zambam]

One previously discussed option for pedals that convert to pegs: Video of Pedals that switch to foot pegs But I guess that if you're hunting for a $5 brand-new saddle, you're also not in the market for some $360 cranks.

I'm a cheapie about lots of things and I love prowling the used parts bins at my local bike shop. I feel great about utilizing second-life parts because it keeps stuff out of the trash, it saves me money, and the dollars I do spend go back to the lovely people at the community bike shop. If you're looking for a well-fitting saddle and have a community bike shop nearby, go there and purchase two or three saddles that seem like a good fit for your tush and try them out. Then, re-donate the saddles you don't use.

You are right I will not spend $360 for those cranks! I think I should be able to make a bracket, install it under the kickstand allen head bolt and fashion swept back "foot pegs" that clears the pedals to allow ghost pedaling when needed. What do you think?

Thanks for the community bike shop suggestion. Never heard of such. There does not appear to be any shops like that around here.

 

[Zambam]

Instead of making metal brackets attached to the kick stand bolt, I came up with this simpler idea. Quick template made of cardboard. Clears the pedals. Next make one out of plywood, secure it to the chainstay with hose clamps and try it out. Use 2 magnets to keep the pedals horizontal, ready to switch from pegs to ghost pedaling.

What do you think?

 

[scianiac]

That will probably result in some odd weight distribution like putting a lot of weight on your hands when you are standing on it. I just installed the shortest cranks I could find and they helped with some issues. After that I did try locking the cranks as a test and the results were interesting, some aspects felt odd at first but nice after a little while but others just felt wrong all the time. The main issue was leaning bike felt very stiff as you're not used to having to also lean the bike with your legs. Being able to move your weight forward and back with just your legs though did feel interesting.

If you want to give it a try like I did it's pretty easy to do, idk about this being a permanent solution but certainly good enough for a test, I mean I rode it though some pretty rough rock gardens fine. I just tied a loop of paracord from the pedal axle to just under the seat clamp. To do this though and not have it wobble all around you have to get them both very tight which requires using a truckers hitch and some trial and error as you have to get one side too short before you tighten the other so they level out when tight.

Also if you want seat suspension a suspension seatpost is what you want, I saw a little while ago on aliexpress some interesting listings for what looked like either exact copies or factory surplus versions of the expensive ones for quite reasonable prices. Who knows what they are but lots of interesting stuff showing up on aliexpress as so many companies over ordered with the covid bike boom and are now trying to cancel orders.

 

[Zambam]

"odd weight distribution" Guess I won't know till I try it. I do not ride on any technical terrain. It's needed just to get my weight momentarily off the seat when I hit pot holes or bumps on city streets. As for suspension seat post I have one, a SR Suntour SP12 NCX that I bought for my first ebike Ecotric Dolphin (since sold). Unfortunately it will not fit the Arrow 9, which has a unique seat post lock mechanism integrated with seat/ battery lock. Even if I modify it to fit, it adds additional height (about 4") which makes the bike too tall for me.

 

[Chalo]

Here's a community bike shop in Ciudad Nueva York:

Recycle-A-Bicycle | New York City Bike Shop

Nonprofit community-based bike shop providing refurbished donated bikes & new accessories, plus full-service repairs. Program of Bike New York

www.recycleabicycle.nyc

It looks to be more on the commercial side than most of them, but NYC has some pretty special requirements, so that's not surprising.

 

[Zambam]

Here's a community bike shop in Ciudad Nueva York:

Recycle-A-Bicycle | New York City Bike Shop

Nonprofit community-based bike shop providing refurbished donated bikes & new accessories, plus full-service repairs. Program of Bike New York

www.recycleabicycle.nyc

It looks to be more on the commercial side than most of them, but NYC has some pretty special requirements, so that's not surprising.

Thanks for the link. It's 15 miles from me. Next time I go in that direction (which is not often) I will check it out.

 

[99t4]

Instead of making metal brackets attached to the kick stand bolt, I came up with this simpler idea. Quick template made of cardboard. Clears the pedals. Next make one out of plywood, secure it to the chainstay with hose clamps and try it out. Use 2 magnets to keep the pedals horizontal, ready to switch from pegs to ghost pedaling.

What do you think?

View attachment 344804

I wouldn't like it. Just because it clears the pedal swing does not mean it will clear your heel, especially if the heel pivots inward during a rough spot or evasive maneuver. Or even sometimes taking off under difficult circumstances. I've hurt my heel before when carrying something heavy and bulky in my pannier bag. No bueno.

 

[glennb]

Can’t fit a suspension post? In the era of sloping top tubes that’d mean the frame’s too large for you.

Regarding saddle vs post suspension, there’s little comparison - post can be 40mm travel, though realistically 20mm once you’ve set the sag, and they’re much nicer with fifty odd percent sag.

For upright riding, big sprung saddles can be plush, however they rock around too much for my liking, whereas good suspension posts only move on one axis. Slung leather saddles and the like do not provide what I’d call suspension.

 

[Zambam]

I wouldn't like it. Just because it clears the pedal swing does not mean it will clear your heel, especially if the heel pivots inward during a rough spot or evasive maneuver. Or even sometimes taking off under difficult circumstances. I've hurt my heel before when carrying something heavy and bulky in my pannier bag. No bueno.

My heel may not clear if I am really pedaling and the bike still has a chain, which has been removed. Look at my photo, there's no chain around the chain ring. I only need to "fake pedal" when needed. I can trim back the plywood if it interferes with fake pedaling.

 

[Zambam]

Can’t fit a suspension post? In the era of sloping top tubes that’d mean the frame’s too large for you.

Regarding saddle vs post suspension, there’s little comparison - post can be 40mm travel, though realistically 20mm once you’ve set the sag, and they’re much nicer with fifty odd percent sag.

For upright riding, big sprung saddles can be plush, however they rock around too much for my liking, whereas good suspension posts only move on one axis. Slung leather saddles and the like do not provide what I’d call suspension.

My crotch clears the top tube with both feet flat on the ground when straddling it so the frame is not too large for me in that respect. The seat post locking mechanism (needs a key and allen wrench to adjust seat height) is on a hinge, which adds additional height compared to a conventional seat post lock mechanism. I'll take pics of it later.

 

[Zambam]

The Arrow ebikes has 2 keys and 2 locks for a more secure system to make stealing the battery a bit more difficult. One lock is on the seat. When unlocked, allows seat to swing up on its hinge in order to adjust seat height and to remove the battery. The other lock is on the battery (removed in pic).

 

[Zambam]

This is the old seat post lock with the lock drilled out and discarded. When I bought the bike used, it only came with the battery key. I was not able to adjust seat height or remove the battery. I didn't know anything about how the system worked and went to a local bike shop who had it drilled out in less than a minute. It's easy to steal if you know where to drill. $40 later I have a new seat post/ lock, labor included.

This is the original seat, thick and wide. A bit too tall for my liking . I currently have an old seat from a road bike which made seat height much lower.

 

[Zambam]

This pic shows how the Arrow seat post height adjustment works. There are 8 finger paws on the bottom of the post which expands out by turning the allen head adjustment bolt at the top of the seat post. The Arrow seat post is 25 mm dia, there's also a shim at the top of the tube that's required (not in the pic, on the bike). The Suntour suspension seat post is 27 mm dia. and would be very difficult to adapt it to fit the Arrow and still have the same level of functionality and security.

 

[glennb]

25.4 and 27.2.

But yeah, the Suntour is unsuitable. You need a Satori Animaris, which you’ll be able to adapt to 25.4 by boring it out half a millimeter, reducing the top of the 25.4 post by same, or sleeving it externally. Not difficult, and no need for any degree of precision, you can have a loose fit, cut a slit, and use a clamp to secure the join. Or glue it or weld it or pin it or whatever you like.

The fat sprung saddle you depicted is precisely the kind of bastard that wobbles on every axis. They suck. Your lower back muscles have to compensate for the constant shifts. It’s like riding/balancing a big inflatable exercise ball. Those are supposed to work your lower back, it’s not what you want when biking. Plus the lack of control it creates in technical manoeuvres when you ought to be clamping the saddle with your thighs.

The saddle is an arse support, that needs to be shaped to distribute pressure and minimise chafing. Suspension is not their job, and coil springs just bounce you around. The post is strictly speaking just a seat tube extension, but the pivoting parallelogram designs enable them to be much more than that.

With the availability of tunable suspension posts it’s silly to choose a saddle for its suspension properties. Saddle criteria are shape, texture and durability, and possibly another that’s not coming to mind.

Anyway, I’m probably badgering you with proposals that are disproportionate or wrong for your requirements. What I find works best and what’s best for you could be miles apart.

 

[Zambam]

Adapting the Satori Animaris would be a lot of work, a lot more than I am willing to do. Then I will lose the extra locking feature for the battery. The Satori would also be easy to steal. Doesn't sound very appealing.

I should be getting the suspension seat in about 2 week. Hopefully it will be more comfortable than the current road bike seat.

 

[glennb]

Fair enough.

There’s alternative theft prevention/deterrent systems though, DIY and commercial.

The animaris is the only post I know of that you could shorten to a suitable height.

Regarding time and effort, it’s likely less than you imagine. I just grabbed a handful of posts, 25.4 with stubs, and regular 27.2 ones … half of them are near enough perfect fit. There’s a few 27.2s with large wall thicknesses that’d require boring, but there’s a high chance that an animaris doesn’t. The stub diameters vary, as do the 27.2 post wall thicknesses, and there’s enough variation that I cannot imagine you being unable to find a winning combination with a five minute rummage at a shop of the type that Chalo recommended.

 

[Zambam]

"odd weight distribution" Guess I won't know till I try it. I do not ride on any technical terrain. It's needed just to get my weight momentarily off the seat when I hit pot holes or bumps on city streets. As for suspension seat post I have one, a SR Suntour SP12 NCX that I bought for my first ebike Ecotric Dolphin (since sold). Unfortunately it will not fit the Arrow 9, which has a unique seat post lock mechanism integrated with seat/ battery lock. Even if I modify it to fit, it adds additional height (about 4") which makes the bike too tall for me.

So I did try it and you're right scianiac. It felt weird. The wooden platform is too far back, too high up and too narrow. Shoes rub against the tire if they are on the wider part if I'm not careful about placement. Will remove the wood platform and stick with the pedals the way they are.

 

[Zambam]

................................. I just installed the shortest cranks I could find and they helped with some issues. After that I did try locking the cranks as a test and the results were interesting, some aspects felt odd at first but nice after a little while but others just felt wrong all the time. The main issue was leaning bike felt very stiff as you're not used to having to also lean the bike with your legs. Being able to move your weight forward and back with just your legs though did feel interesting.

If you want to give it a try like I did it's pretty easy to do, idk about this being a permanent solution but certainly good enough for a test, I mean I rode it though some pretty rough rock gardens fine. I just tied a loop of paracord from the pedal axle to just under the seat clamp. To do this though and not have it wobble all around you have to get them both very tight which requires using a truckers hitch and some trial and error as you have to get one side too short before you tighten the other so they level out when tight.
.......................

My cranks are 170 mm. I am thinking of trying shorter cranks. What length should I try? Shorter cranks would get both feet closer together when the pedals are at 9 and 3 o'clock.

When at 6 o'clock and I stand on it with most of my weight, it would get me higher up off the seat so my leg absorb most of the shock instead of my butt.

What other differences will I notice?