Thoughts regarding on-board notebook computer for E-bike use

[recumpence]

Hey Guys,

For my next big trike build, I am looking at using a notebook computer on-board to do real time monitoring of various items. My Eagle Tree systems (I will be running two of them) are UBS real time capable as are other various bits that could be potentially useful for E-bike that I could harness in this application.

I would like to discuss various notebook or other small computers, small monitors (touch screen and non), and other hardware as well as software that could be used. For instance, I know I could run a video camera and use software to overlay the Eagle Tree data over the video image for a real time view of the ride, along with the technical data captured on that ride.

Anyway, what portable computers, monitors, ect would be good for this? What about multiple USB connections? How about vibration while riding possibly affecting the computer? What about RF from thousands of watts of motors running a foot away from the computer?

Thoughts?

Matt

 

[Grinhill]

I started doing some research a while back before buying a Cycle Analyst.

My pick of the bunch was the following:

http://www.engbedded.com/veloace

It runs on the Palm OS, which means it's easy to find second-hand hardware, and the size/weight would be good as a dashboard.

The software was for pedal-only, but being open source, it could be extended to include e-bike relevant stuff.

 

[paull]

I've wanted to do something similar but was thinking of using my Android phone + bluetooth -> serial device. I believe the latest Android release has the serial over bluetooth driver installed. It's probably a bit expensive if you don't already have/want an android phone. You can buy an unlocked developer phone directly from Google though which allows you to muck with the kernel drivers if needed.

The advantages of using android are:
- Built in GPS and Google Maps interface
- Built in 3G for uploading logs
- Built in Compass
- Fairly easy to program (though admittedly I haven't tried to do the Bluetooth serial bit yet)

 

[voicecoils]

I would start with a nice little netbook like the EeePC. They're cheap, nicely sized and can run XP or linux distros. Eagletree might only have windows software?

They'd be a bit chunky on a upright bike but on a 'bent they'd be pretty neat. You could even set them up so that they'd 'dock' and could be removed by the owner to take inside and review stats, footage or even surf the web 8) If you pick a model with a solid state hard drive then vibration should not be a big concern (if they're ridden onroad).

Eg this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220586 only 170 bucks!

 

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

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[paultrafalgar]

Nuts, if you are going to run that kit while cycling along you really are NUTS! What a distraction!
Here's what I've done, which might be of interest to some: I took the base of a Specialised 4xD cell front light and removed the top and batteries, put a slice of foam rubber on top and strapped on my Loox N560 PDA using rubber bands. I run Fugawi on that to capture trails. There is no way I would put my netbook on a handlebar (or even on a trike) as there is just too much vibration in that environment.

 

[Anonymous]

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[amberwolf]

http://www.engbedded.com/veloace

That's what I use, on an old m100 (though I also tried it on an old Treo and a Clie, until each of those finally died). m100 still kicking along. I got it for $5 postage from someone on the LadyAda forums after they saw my project, and had it just gathering dust in a drawer. I've seen them for $5-$15 in thrift stores, in varying condition, including one at Savers a week or two ago that still had it's flip cover (no cable, though).

I just use the hotsync cable to hook it to the wheel sensor. The wheel sensor is just a reed switch tucked into the end of the old CGA/monochrome monitor cable I use to plug the hotsync's serial DB9 into.

I used to use the IR version, but the batteries drain significantly faster with the IR enabled, plus I had people mess with the wheel-sensor/IR electronics box a couple times, before I started using the trash-bike look to deter them from it being interesting.

The software was for pedal-only, but being open source, it could be extended to include e-bike relevant stuff.

What I want to do, but don't get programming well enough to do anytime soon, is to update VeloAce to run on newer Palms that can deal with media cards. Then alter it to take CA's logging output and first to log it to a card, then update some realtime graphs of usage, or even display the CAs usual stuff on the PDA screen instead, in a user-configurable amount of panels with whatever readings most interest them.

The only disadvantage to do this is it would take up the hotsync cable and I'd need to use the IR wheel sensor, if I still used VeloAce's speed sensor.

But if VeloAce were also rewritten to take advantage of the CA's speed output, and the CA were getting the direct wheel sensor data, then it wouldn't matter.

I've also considered something like one of the SBCs Nutsandvolts has discussed here and in his ebike data thread, because I would not want to put a laptop on the bike--too much power use, harddisk could be destroyed from vibration/shock, etc. I've got a few old laptops with various things wrong with them that don't matter for this use, if there was already software available to do the data logging/display.

There are also solutions for the harddisk problem. I have around here someplace a CF to IDE adapter, easily used to replace a harddisk with a CF card, which while a lot slower would take less power and be much less prone to desctruction or damage on a bike.

 

[Anonymous]

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[paultrafalgar]

... BTW my latest fascination is audio text to speech by hardware, my bike will give me stats in earphone. It could also alert me about any number of things like phone calls, emails, alarms, motor temperature, driving directions, battery charge remaining etc. ...

Wow! What kit do you use for that!

 

[amberwolf]

Check out the prices on these SSD (solid state flash) drives, they are for industrial use.

Wow. I think I'll stick to my CF card and it's IDE adapter.

 

[Anonymous]

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[paultrafalgar]

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I have a 60GB solid state SATA drive, no moving parts, 0.1 millisecond access, but it was waaaay too expensive.
Flash is the only stuff I know of that's actually more expensive than lithium batteries.
Check out the prices on these SSD (solid state flash) drives, they are for industrial use.

Here's what I have put in my Asus EEE PC 1000 from http://www.memoryc.com/ :
64GB RunCore PATA Mini PCI-e PCIe SSD for ASUS EEE PC 900A, 901, and 1000
Mfr. PN: RCP-I-M7064-C
I paid £ 146.48 Now costs: £ 163.86
It runs significantly faster than the standard SSD that came with the machine:
See review at:
http://jkkmobile.blogspot.com/2009/02/ssd-test-runcore-mini-pci-e-sata-ssd.html

 

[recumpence]

Hey Guys,

Man, I am so thankful for all the responses! Right off the bat, I must tell you, I am mechanically inclined. But, I am very green on computers in general. So, my hand will need to be held through this project. I am very teachable, though. So, what I am taught, I will retain.

Anyway, my needs/wants are;

---Display that can be mounted on a hinging display just above my lap that clears my legs when folded up so I can enter/exit the trike. That would dictate a 7 inch wide display maximum.

---Small keyboard that can be stowed and used when parked somewhere for data retreval and setting changes. This would ideally be an external keyboard.

---A minimum of 3 UBS ports (I recognize a hub can be used for this) for component interface.

---A touch screen would be nice, but not totally needed. I doubt I would be doing anything while riding [other than viewing the monitor].

---I would prefer an embedded system that would put the conputer and [solid state] hard-drive in a remote location behind the seat with the screen and keyboard up front on/in the center console I will build custom for this.

---I would also love a software solution that would allow me to turn off the computer and turn it back on again while retaining the same programs displayed on the screen without calling them back up and reconfiguring the screen window each time it is turned on. That is because this should be like an electronic dashboard display that comes up ready to use when the trike is turned on. Oh, yes, it must run Windows as my controllers and data loggers all run on Windows.

---The pack I am running is a 48 volt pack (ranges from 42 volts when low to 50.4 volts hot off the charger). So, I need a DC to DC converter that will provide power to the computer from my pack. That will preclude the use of a secondary pack for computer use only. I am not against a second pack if needed, though.

That is pretty much what I am looking for. Mounting options are totally unimportant for me as I can make anything I need to hold, house, or otherwise mount all components.

Matt

 

[nomad85]

I have an Acer Aspire One netbook, they are ok with vibrations if you get the Solid State Drive (SSD) version. They have 3 usb ports, and are pretty cheap. I have dropped mine many times and its still working fine. The screen is 8.9" though so it may be to big.

 

[michaelplogue]

I think what you want to look for is a tablet style UMPC. Personally, I've been considering going with a Viliv X70 or S5 - depends on how big of a screen you want. I wouldn't bother with anything that has a physical keyboard - just extra weight for a bike setup.

Start here for your research: http://www.umpcportal.com/products/

 

[amberwolf]

---Small keyboard that can be stowed and used when parked somewhere for data retreval and setting changes. This would ideally be an external keyboard.

If you need something weatherproof, and it's tactility doesn't matter to you, there are "projected" keyboards which basically draw a keyboard image (from above) with light on a surface of your choosing, and you type on that surface, whatever it is, it picks it up and converts it to keystrokes. I don't remember who makes them, but I've seen them in use in a couple of videos before (including a "pimp my ride" someone was trying to get me to watch).

---A touch screen would be nice, but not totally needed. I doubt I would be doing anything while riding [other than viewing the monitor].

If you need weatherproofing, the touchscreen part might complicate that. Depending on how it works, the sealants it'd need on the edges could interfere with it's calibration.

---I would also love a software solution that would allow me to turn off the computer and turn it back on again while retaining the same programs displayed on the screen without calling them back up and reconfiguring the screen window each time it is turned on.

Since you're running Windows, all you need to do is enable hibernation in Windows itself, in it's power control panel, and also set the power button to hibernate instead of the more common standby. Then it saves the whole memory state to disk, and on powerup restores it back.

 

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

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[amberwolf]

It's technically not that hard, as memory snapshot can be taken and written to flash, but trying to get it to work with desktop operating system versions is a challenge.

Wouldn't Windows' Hibernate function do this for the majority of cases? I use it all the time on my laptop and desktop, leaving everything open and running (including leaving things like Project5 running and looping a song or other audio project, even leaving MediaPlayerClassic open and playing a video file!).

The sleep function doesn't work as well (sometimes not at all).

When dealing with wireless stuff, or printers or other USB devices, then whether things work or not depends on whether drivers have been written correctly to answer the calls to shutdown, pause, or whatever, in order to then be awakened into the right state, as far as I can tell (and sometimes newer drivers actually work less well than older ones!).

 

[Anonymous]

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[amberwolf]

They will work (maybe sometimes) on a laptop, but part of the puzzle is BIOS support for such functions.

True. So far I haven't had trouble with things I run, but haven't used much in the way of external devices other than a couple of USB audio boxes, memory card readers, and the like, as well as an old serial Wacom tablet. My printer is a networked HP laser (Jetdirect) so I don't have to worry about it's communications, either.

My overall opinion would be if you want to run on a small 4x4 inch or 3x5 inch "embedded PC" it would be best to run WinXP out of the available windows variants, and there's lot of driver support.

Remember that there is a package of "XP embedded" available that lets you "build" your installer based upon only the parts you will need to use. If you know what you are doing, it would be possible to make a much more efficient embedded system than with the standard XP, assuming you can trim out a lot of services, "built in addons" and whatnot.

I played with the downloadable eval version a few years back, trying to work out a more portable recording studio solution I could build into my Ensoniq ASR88 (lots of small spaces inside), but stopped playing out at places, making it pointless to continue. It did work well, though, and made considerably smaller installations that ran a lot faster, letting me do more with a little less hardware for my softsynths and SONAR and whatnot.

 

[Anonymous]

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[amberwolf]

True, but it also leans up XP so it takes less RAM and CPU cycles. That was the biggest benefit for wanting to use it in my music station application, and why I'd suggest using it here. It makes the hardware requirements less.