Greetings, I have a Prodecotech Phantom X Ebike with a 36 volt battery and 500 watt motor. The bike originally came with the crappy Wuxing 4 pin ht throttle with the red on/off button. Years ago I bought a spare, but now they are both not working. I also bought a spare generic ht throttle (no on/off switch) which I recently connected but it has a problem. Although it worked good, as far as accelerating, the battery level LED's stay on green, even after the battery gets low, and the throttle gets hot. This throttle did not come with the connector, just the bare wires (red, blue, green, yellow.. which are the original 4 colors coming out of the controller) and the loose pins. I don't know much about electronics but I do know how to solder. I didn't want to mess with this so I had a motorcycle tech do it for me. Even though the colors were connected the same as the original Wuxing, is it possible that there is a discrepancy in the color codes? If so, how do correct it? Which colors do I swap? I should mention that the brake kill switch wires were cut off before I aquired the bike. It was working for many years with the Wuxings. Also, I don't know if the fact that the new throttle has no on/off button has anything to do with it either. I know these are cheap throttles but I now live in Mexico and they are not available here and to get them sent is expensive and risky. Any info, if anyone thinks it's a color code conflict and which colors to swap, would be highly appreciated. Cheers
Throttle Issues (color codes?)
- Thread starter SilverSun
- Start date
The throttle battery meter would stay green if it is meant for a lower voltage than you're running it at.
If it uses a resistive voltage divider (likely) to do the measuring, then it will also be higher temperature the higher the voltage is vs what it was meant for.
Wire colors on *anything* are as likely to not match as to match, for any randomly chosen bits of equipment.
There are not many technologies where the standardized colors are always used by every manufacturer, even when the standard has existed for decades and there is a technical group "in charge" of maintaining and specifying that standard.
Ebike stuff doesn't have any standards as there are no technical groups to create them, so every manufacturer (of which there are at least hundreds, probably thousands or tens of thousands) does whatever they feel like, and wire color may not even be the same between different models from the same manufacturer, much less different mfrs.
There have even been manufacturers (most notably GoldenMotor) that have used red for ground and black for positive on battery connectors *for just some batches of a product*, virtually ensuring the destruction of connected items as it's virtually always black for ground and some other color for positive (and the other batches of the product were "correctly" wired). Instead of fixing the problem in this particular case, and having the wires in the usual colors for future batches, they just started putting a little sticker on the wires with the opposite colors, ensuring complete confusion of the person installing the parts (usually the end-user that has no idea about anything and just goes by wire color since that seems obvious (but is frequently wrong).
If it uses a resistive voltage divider (likely) to do the measuring, then it will also be higher temperature the higher the voltage is vs what it was meant for.
Wire colors on *anything* are as likely to not match as to match, for any randomly chosen bits of equipment.
There are not many technologies where the standardized colors are always used by every manufacturer, even when the standard has existed for decades and there is a technical group "in charge" of maintaining and specifying that standard.
Ebike stuff doesn't have any standards as there are no technical groups to create them, so every manufacturer (of which there are at least hundreds, probably thousands or tens of thousands) does whatever they feel like, and wire color may not even be the same between different models from the same manufacturer, much less different mfrs.
There have even been manufacturers (most notably GoldenMotor) that have used red for ground and black for positive on battery connectors *for just some batches of a product*, virtually ensuring the destruction of connected items as it's virtually always black for ground and some other color for positive (and the other batches of the product were "correctly" wired). Instead of fixing the problem in this particular case, and having the wires in the usual colors for future batches, they just started putting a little sticker on the wires with the opposite colors, ensuring complete confusion of the person installing the parts (usually the end-user that has no idea about anything and just goes by wire color since that seems obvious (but is frequently wrong).
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docw009
10 MW
How about a shopping link to your 4 wire Wuxing throttle? Most simole throtlles with no on/off switch only need three wires. Perhaps we can see why it has 4 wires. Does this throttle have battery LED's?
What are the extra pins you were talking about that the new throttle won;'t support,
It's probably a wiring problem, Throttle shouldn;t get hot. Maybe has battery power going to wrong pin..
What are the extra pins you were talking about that the new throttle won;'t support,
It's probably a wiring problem, Throttle shouldn;t get hot. Maybe has battery power going to wrong pin..
Thanks for the info. That sucks that they make it so confusing!The throttle battery meter would stay green if it is meant for a lower voltage than you're running it at.
If it uses a resistive voltage divider (likely) to do the measuring, then it will also be higher temperature the higher the voltage is vs what it was meant for.
Wire colors on *anything* are as likely to not match as to match, for any randomly chosen bits of equipment.
There are not many technologies where the standardized colors are always used by every manufacturer, even when the standard has existed for decades and there is a technical group "in charge" of maintaining and specifying that standard.
Ebike stuff doesn't have any standards as there are no technical groups to create them, so every manufacturer (of which there are at least hundreds, probably thousands or tens of thousands) does whatever they feel like, and wire color may not even be the same between different models from the same manufacturer, much less different mfrs.
There have even been manufacturers (most notably GoldenMotor) that have used red for ground and black for positive on battery connectors *for just some batches of a product*, virtually ensuring the destruction of connected items as it's virtually always black for ground and some other color for positive (and the other batches of the product were "correctly" wired). Instead of fixing the problem in this particular case, and having the wires in the usual colors for future batches, they just started putting a little sticker on the wires with the opposite colors, ensuring complete confusion of the person installing the parts (usually the end-user that has no idea about anything and just goes by wire color since that seems obvious (but is frequently wrong).
Thanks for your help. I will try to send photos later. I was trying to say that the pins came unconnected to the 4 slot connector that I bought separately.The original Wuxing that came stock on the bike has the on/off button and the extra one I bought had the same 4 colors and worked. This new one also has the same 4 colors too, but like I mentioned, the throttle is getting super hot. I imagine that even though they are the same colors, they are not the correct codings. I also thought that the throttle is receiving the wrong voltage due to the obvious conflict of the color codes. I know you can't inform me which ones I colors I should swap without checking the voltage, but the red should be the 5 volt, right? Which color do they usually use instead of black for ground?
I'm sure it only needs three wires, but which go where?..is the question. I hope I explained it clearly. This is so c
confusing, especially to people like me that are not experts. I need to buy a multi meter and maybe you guys can explain how to check voltages. I know the very minimum basics on using a mm, but checking voltages on an ebike is new to me. Thanks
I'm sure it only needs three wires, but which go where?..is the question. I hope I explained it clearly. This is so c
confusing, especially to people like me that are not experts. I need to buy a multi meter and maybe you guys can explain how to check voltages. I know the very minimum basics on using a mm, but checking voltages on an ebike is new to me. Thanks
The throttle with the red on/off button is the one that came originally with the bike, but it only had 4 wires. All I find online now is 6 wires. The other throttle is the new one that gets hot, which has the same 4 colored wires, but obviously not the same color coding.
I would consider/recommend getting a throttle with a voltsge display rather than relying on 3 crappy lights. That way you know more precisely your charge status. Plus if you ever decide to upgrade to a higher voltage in the future, you don’t need to buy a new unit. (A lot of 36v controllers can be run at 48v).
This one has a key switch rather than button, but you can get one with a button if you look around. At one point I used this throttle, but swapped out the key switch with a push button because I didn’t like the key hanging there.
Interesting that the stock controller has 4 wires. Throttle requires three conductors, +5v, gnd, signal. To turn the bike on, you need two conductors, +battery voltage (36v), and on/off signal wire to turn on the controller. To support the battery level, you need +battery voltage, and gnd (already present, above). I can’t think of a combination of conductors that would support throttle, on/off, and battery level that uses less than 5 conductors, but perhaps someone else does.
Do you have a pic of the connector on the controller side?
This one has a key switch rather than button, but you can get one with a button if you look around. At one point I used this throttle, but swapped out the key switch with a push button because I didn’t like the key hanging there.
Interesting that the stock controller has 4 wires. Throttle requires three conductors, +5v, gnd, signal. To turn the bike on, you need two conductors, +battery voltage (36v), and on/off signal wire to turn on the controller. To support the battery level, you need +battery voltage, and gnd (already present, above). I can’t think of a combination of conductors that would support throttle, on/off, and battery level that uses less than 5 conductors, but perhaps someone else does.
Do you have a pic of the connector on the controller side?
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If the throttle operates correctly, then it is wired correctly.
If it gets hot while operating correclty, it is because it is not meant to run at the voltage of your system. Disconnecting the wire that goes to the battery meter will correct this problem.
If it gets hot while not operating correctly / at all, then it is probably already damaged from a miswire, and rewiring it to whatever the correct combo is won't help. A miswire can even damage your controller, by feeding battery voltage back into the throttle signal or 5v, so if things don't work as expected afterward, you'd probalby have to replace the controller, too.
I would recommmend never getting any throttle that has a battery meter built in.
With *any* of these, there is risk of controller damage / destruction because of a miswire during installation, or of a short from wire damage or water intrusion into the throttle.
This is possilbe with any system that has battery voltage and 5v/etc power and/or signals in the same device / cabling, and has caused system destruction in various threads here on ES and elsewhere numerous times over the years.
Instead, I'd recommend using a separate battery meter, such as the one on the battery itself if it has one. This isn't usually convenient to check while riding, but if you have ridden a bike for a while, you probably already have a pretty good idea of it's range under various conditions and battery charge states.
Battery meters are handy for troubleshooting problems, or eking the last few hundred feet of range from a pack on a ride, but they're not really necessary.
You can't know *any* of the wire colors without checking them. Assuming *any* wire / color is a particular thing risks destroying the equipment at *both* ends of the wiring.
I wish there was a good way to find out which wire is which without testing or experimenting, but unless the devices have instructions with them that tell you which wire is which, testing it is the only way to know for sure.
The first test is to measure the voltage on the controller cable that goes to the throttle.
If you have a multimeter with continuity, ohms, or diode test, then take the battery off the bike.
--Connect the black lead of the meter to the battery *holder* (on the bike) - or negative pin or contact. Connect the meter red to each of the controller throttle cable wires in turn and note the results. One should beep continuously, show nearly zero ohms, or nearly zero reading. That's ground.
--disconnect the meter leads and reconnect hte battery to the bike and turn the bike on
--set meter to 20vdc and connect black lead to the ground you just tested on the controller';s throottle cable, and connect the meter red to each of the controller throttle cable wires in turn and note the results. The one at about 5v is the throttle 5v supply. The one just below that (usually) is the signal input. The one at battery voltage is the battery meter wire.
Now tape off the battery meter wire so you cannot accidentally touch it to anything.
If you're willing to open the throttle unit up (there's usually a screw-on panel near the leds, sometimes it's just a sticker that lifts off), then you can use the multimeter to measure continuity / ohms from the throttle's own wires to the points inside where the wires solder in, if you can't actuallly see which colors go where. If you get good images of the inside and where the wires connect, we can make some guesses. Note that removing the twist grip form the trhotle will usually unwind a spring that's hard to get back in place, so I don't recommend taking that off unless you're willing ot fiddle with it to get it back together right for a while.
You can't know *any* of the wire colors without checking them. Assuming *any* wire / color is a particular thing risks destroying the equipment at *both* ends of the wiring.
I wish there was a good way to find out which wire is which without testing or experimenting, but unless the devices have instructions with them that tell you which wire is which, testing it is the only way to know for sure.
The first test is to measure the voltage on the controller cable that goes to the throttle.
If you have a multimeter with continuity, ohms, or diode test, then take the battery off the bike.
--Connect the black lead of the meter to the battery *holder* (on the bike) - or negative pin or contact. Connect the meter red to each of the controller throttle cable wires in turn and note the results. One should beep continuously, show nearly zero ohms, or nearly zero reading. That's ground.
--disconnect the meter leads and reconnect hte battery to the bike and turn the bike on
--set meter to 20vdc and connect black lead to the ground you just tested on the controller';s throottle cable, and connect the meter red to each of the controller throttle cable wires in turn and note the results. The one at about 5v is the throttle 5v supply. The one just below that (usually) is the signal input. The one at battery voltage is the battery meter wire.
Now tape off the battery meter wire so you cannot accidentally touch it to anything.
If you're willing to open the throttle unit up (there's usually a screw-on panel near the leds, sometimes it's just a sticker that lifts off), then you can use the multimeter to measure continuity / ohms from the throttle's own wires to the points inside where the wires solder in, if you can't actuallly see which colors go where. If you get good images of the inside and where the wires connect, we can make some guesses. Note that removing the twist grip form the trhotle will usually unwind a spring that's hard to get back in place, so I don't recommend taking that off unless you're willing ot fiddle with it to get it back together right for a while.
I can do without the meter if I have to, but I do use it a lot because I live on a mountain and when I go "downstairs" I Always carefully keep my eyes on the meter to make sure I get back upstairs. I used to have good legs and this didn't matter but now...well you know.I would recommmend never getting any throttle that has a battery meter built in.
With *any* of these, there is risk of controller damage / destruction because of a miswire during installation, or of a short from wire damage or water intrusion into the throttle.
This is possilbe with any system that has battery voltage and 5v/etc power and/or signals in the same device / cabling, and has caused system destruction in various threads here on ES and elsewhere numerous times over the years.
Instead, I'd recommend using a separate battery meter, such as the one on the battery itself if it has one. This isn't usually convenient to check while riding, but if you have ridden a bike for a while, you probably already have a pretty good idea of it's range under various conditions and battery charge states.
Battery meters are handy for troubleshooting problems, or eking the last few hundred feet of range from a pack on a ride, but they're not really necessary.
I always use the throttle meter because the meter on the battery is less easy to calculate. But if I have to I will do without the throttle meter.Thanks a million for taking the time to explain that, but it sounds too complicated for me.You can't know *any* of the wire colors without checking them. Assuming *any* wire / color is a particular thing risks destroying the equipment at *both* ends of the wiring.
I wish there was a good way to find out which wire is which without testing or experimenting, but unless the devices have instructions with them that tell you which wire is which, testing it is the only way to know for sure.
The first test is to measure the voltage on the controller cable that goes to the throttle.
If you have a multimeter with continuity, ohms, or diode test, then take the battery off the bike.
--Connect the black lead of the meter to the battery *holder* (on the bike) - or negative pin or contact. Connect the meter red to each of the controller throttle cable wires in turn and note the results. One should beep continuously, show nearly zero ohms, or nearly zero reading. That's ground.
--disconnect the meter leads and reconnect hte battery to the bike and turn the bike on
--set meter to 20vdc and connect black lead to the ground you just tested on the controller';s throottle cable, and connect the meter red to each of the controller throttle cable wires in turn and note the results. The one at about 5v is the throttle 5v supply. The one just below that (usually) is the signal input. The one at battery voltage is the battery meter wire.
Now tape off the battery meter wire so you cannot accidentally touch it to anything.
If you're willing to open the throttle unit up (there's usually a screw-on panel near the leds, sometimes it's just a sticker that lifts off), then you can use the multimeter to measure continuity / ohms from the throttle's own wires to the points inside where the wires solder in, if you can't actuallly see which colors go where. If you get good images of the inside and where the wires connect, we can make some guesses. Note that removing the twist grip form the trhotle will usually unwind a spring that's hard to get back in place, so I don't recommend taking that off unless you're willing ot fiddle with it to get it back together right for a while.
Thanks everyone for trying to help. This is my transportation and I have modified and invested so much in this bike that I must get it fixed one way or the other. I appreciate if you continue with your patience and maybe we can get it done somehow. Happy Thanksgiving
docw009
10 MW
Four wire throttle with on/off switch and LED lights> There was a discussion along the same lines a year ago. FOr some roeaon, the OP in that discussion never got it working right,
1. The throttle get battery power, which is 48 or 36V.
2. Ground wire for battery/throttle
3. Signal wire going back to the controller to turn it on,
4. Throttle output wire.
The chip that runs the throttle is powered off the 48V battery voltage with a cheap power supply. probably a zener diode. They do get warm.,
You might have received a 48 throttle, so it can't show voltage because it's too high,
Have a good holiday.
1. The throttle get battery power, which is 48 or 36V.
2. Ground wire for battery/throttle
3. Signal wire going back to the controller to turn it on,
4. Throttle output wire.
The chip that runs the throttle is powered off the 48V battery voltage with a cheap power supply. probably a zener diode. They do get warm.,
You might have received a 48 throttle, so it can't show voltage because it's too high,
Have a good holiday.
A few more questions for you guys. I found the correct codes for my original throttle. I also found online the same throttle but with six wires instead of four, but they show the color codes. So, theoretically I just connect the 4 pins to the appropriate colors according to the color code charts and disregard the other two, right?
In the mean time I have 2 throttles that I know worked fine for years. Maybe I can fix them. One of them does not snap back. Maybe just the spring is messed up. A guy fixed the spring one time and it worked for years. I opened it up years ago, but when I encountered the spring, I didn't want to mess with it, so I let him fix it. Maybe it can be fixed again? The other one that worked for years (same Wuxing model) is what I'm still using, but it intermittently cuts out, but when I press the on/off switch it stutters and then it catches back on. It works when I press the right side of the switch.What do you guys think? Could it be just a bad connection to the on/off switch? Maybe even I could fix that. Thanks for any advice.
Thanks for any advice.
TommyCat
10 kW
Hi SilverSun,
By all means share what you have and eliminate the theoretical. It will certainly help the next guy.
Opening the original throttle up and taking sharp detailed pictures of the wiring and posting them will put the earlier confusion and speculation to an end. The sharp lads working this thread will easily be able to identify the wire colors to their functions.
No meter readings required. Although I would encourage you to develop this invaluable electrical testing skill set!
And by repairing both or perhaps needing to cannibalize two to make one work, you'd be good to go.
I.E. Taking the broken spring out of the first one with the good wiring. And replacing it with the good spring out of the second one that has the intermittent wiring connection... the wiring repair would most likely involve soldering. How are you at that?
Looking forward to your pictures...
Regards,
T.C.
By all means share what you have and eliminate the theoretical. It will certainly help the next guy.
Opening the original throttle up and taking sharp detailed pictures of the wiring and posting them will put the earlier confusion and speculation to an end. The sharp lads working this thread will easily be able to identify the wire colors to their functions.
No meter readings required. Although I would encourage you to develop this invaluable electrical testing skill set!
And by repairing both or perhaps needing to cannibalize two to make one work, you'd be good to go.
I.E. Taking the broken spring out of the first one with the good wiring. And replacing it with the good spring out of the second one that has the intermittent wiring connection... the wiring repair would most likely involve soldering. How are you at that?
Looking forward to your pictures...
Regards,
T.C.
Thanks TC, Ok, when I get a chance, I will endeavor to open up the original throttle and take pictures. Like I mentioned, I do know how to solder pretty well, and I did open up one of the original throttles years ago, but the spring thing detained me because I didn't know how to remove and replace it, so I left it in the hands of a motorcycle tech. I will also post the the pics of the color code wiring charts later, but in the meantime so I will know if I should order the new throttle, I will ask again (without using the word theoretically ...if I buy the 6 pin throttle (which is the exact same model as my original except for having 6 pins instead of 4) and I have the color code charts for both, I should be able to use the charts to connect them properly, (even if the colors don't match) and disregard the two extra wires, right? Thanks again and have a great weekend.
...if I buy the 6 pin throttle (which is the exact same model as my original except for having 6 pins instead of 4) and I have the color code charts for both, I should be able to use the charts to connect them properly, (even if the colors don't match) and disregard the two extra wires, right? Thanks again and have a great weekend.
