Tricycle conversion

[adwb]

We have two tricycles which are fitted with Bafang front wheel hub motors and Lishui controllers with Bafang C961 displays.
These displays only allow for very a limited number of user adjustable setting.
On our trikes several of these setting are also not adjustable ie. The road speed,and the wheel size. There are no other options apart the number of PAS levels , the time and backlight than can be user changed.

As a result I would like to change the controllers and displays in order to be able change the max amps , and to alter the power levels on different PAs settings, also I would like to be able adjust the speed that the PAs levels start up and the amount of power at start up.

the Motors are Bafang FM G060.250 D. BLDC 48volt 20” A5 9 pin connecto.
the controllers are Lishui LSW1569-13-4M 48volt max 18amp rated 9 amp Low volt 40v
batteries are 48 volt 15ah 750Wh
displays bafang C961

idealy I would have the same Juliet connectors as currently fitted,

I have contacted Lishui who offer no help on programming their controller. Any advice on sourcing replacement controllers and displays or how to get access to program the existing controllers would be gratefully received.

I can supply images if required of the components .

 

[amberwolf]

Some Lishui controllers can run the OSFW open source firmware

stancecoke - Overview

stancecoke has 14 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub.

github.com

LishuiFOC
with some discussion here

Lishui "Open Source Firmware" project / KingMeter 5S

Hello, I'm interested to this Lishui Project: https://github.com/stancecoke/LishuiFOC I'm searching description of KingMeter 5S protocol, the standard for 850C display coupled with Lishui. Inside this project I found useful sources: display_kingmeter.c and display_kingmeter.h But I'd like...

endless-sphere.com

and some other threads around ES.

if you want to try flashing yours to that, assuming yours is a compatible model (has an F at the end of the model like this

Then you can change any of the settings avialble in that FW. If it doesn't do what you want, well, you had to get new controllers anyway, right?

Note that you probably cannot adust current limits *upwards* from the max already limited to, but you may be able to adjust it downwards. If you require higher current then you will probably have to buy bigger controllers (but this will be proportionally harder on your batteries and your motors).

If you have to (or prefer to) replace the controller/display sets, I would guess that the KT controllers even with OEM firmware will do what you want, and the OSFW for those gives even more options (and some are even available preloaded with OSFW, I think)

KT motor controllers -- Flexible OpenSource firmware for BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers (0.25kW up to 5kW)

This OpenSource firmware/embedded software runs on the BMSBattery S/Kunteng KT motor controllers. The main advantages of this controllers are: 1. sine wave/"FOC": motors run silent and very efficient 2. cheap: starting at 20€ 3. widely available: many online shops sell them and ship to worldwide...

endless-sphere.com

 

[adwb]

Thank you for your advice, unfortunately my controller has M as the end .
i am ok to replace the controller/display but I’m hav trouble finding a supplier

 

[amberwolf]

Which controller are you trying to find a supplier for? Are there any specifics or restrictions on which supplier(s) you can use?

If you havent' picked one, the KT series noted previously (see link in previous post) would probably be a good choice, and are widely available.


Also, another way you can adjust power levels and PAS and have very complete control over everything, is to use a generic no-display no-programming controller that only has a throttle input, and then use Grin Tech's Cycle Analyst v3.x to read your PAS/throttle/etc inputs and process them via the settings you choose, to create a signal that runs the generic controller.

The controller simply has to be good enough to handle the full battery voltage you use, and whatever the maximum power / current you need to use. It does not need any fancy features, and should be one that cannot use a display (as most of those require the display to use them or at least to set them up initially, beyond default factory settings).

This allows you to not only have different assist levels in various ways, but also to actually control the motor based on your cadence, so the faster you pedal the more assist you get, or however you want to arrange it. This is how my SB Cruiser trike works.

You can also configure the PAS to control the speed of the system, or the current, or the power, or just the amount of throttle, each of which gives you different system behavior.

YOu can set speed limits, current limits, power limits, etc in the CA as needed (some of these can also be different in each of the three presets, if that is useful).

Details of how the CA can be used are here:

Cycle Analyst V3 - Grin Products - Product Info

The Cycle Analyst display is our first flagship product released in 2006 and now in its 3rd generation. While the hardware design may be showing its age, it still has capabilities and functionalities that are unmatched by modern ebike systems with their pretty colour screens. This device also...

ebikes.ca

 

[adwb]

Amber wolf thank you ,as I mentioned the controller specs are in my post above. All I want is a replacement controller and display that will allow A range of user configurations.
I will re look at the Kt series controllers again.
how do I know if I need sine or square wave controller?
how do I know how many mosfet I need?
I don’t see that info on the current controller

 

[amberwolf]

how do I know if I need sine or square wave controller?
how do I know how many mosfet I need?

Sine is just quieter and more efficient than square (trap) drive. Which one you need depends on what you want. Most motors will work fine on either one.

Number of FETs doesn't really matter--what matters is how much power it takes to do the job you need the trikes to do for you under the riding conditions you have there. Power is A x V, so the current limit of the controller, and the battery voltage, determine how much power the controller can provide to the motor.

If you only need the controler to do the same job it already does, then the info you already have of "48volt max 18amp rated 9 amp Low volt 40v" tells you what to match on the new controller.

18A max means short peaks of 18A are allowed, after which it will cut the current to the "rated" 9A. So if a controller you want to use is not rated the same way, you should pick one that only allows 9A if you want to match the continous current draw (important in not overloading the battery, and depending on your usage and riding conditions preventing motor overheating).

If the current adjustment you want to be able to do includes going higher in current limit than the old controller, you'll need to get one with a limit that is *at least* as high as you want it to go, and then adjust it downward from there as needed.

Low volt 40v (40v LVC) means that the controller will stop powering hte motor when the battery drops to that voltage, which is common for a 13s 48v battery. If the LVC is higher, you get less range because the controller turns off sooner, and if the LVC is lower then it forces the battery to protect itself by shutting all power off when it reaches it's own (lower) LVC. So using the same LVC is important to preserving the behavior you have now.

 

[amberwolf]

Amber wolf thank you ,as I mentioned the controller specs are in my post above. All I want is a replacement controller and display that will allow A range of user configurations.

Well, you said you couldn't find a supplier. Finding a supplier implies you know exactly what you are trying to get. If you don't have a specific controller in mind yet, then finding a supplier might be a bit premature, unless you have something specific about a supplier that must be true before you will buy from them, and thus you would simply buy whatever that specific supplier happens to sell that is as close as you can get from them.... Myself I would want to determine exactly what is needed first, and then find a supplier.

If all you want is to match the exact controller specs you already have, and not increase or decrease them in any way, then that may simplify some choices, but it also may limit your adjustability since we don't yet know why you want to be able to adjust the current limit or in which direction (more, or less), or any of the other things you wish to change.

As for "A range of user configurations", you need to determine exactly which things you need to be able to change, and what specifically you need each of those changes to be able to do, and what range they should have. Then you can check the controller/display kits you find to be sure they actually will do all of these things. If you don't find one that does all of them, but several that do most, you would need to prioritize your requirements to see which kit(s) best match your higher priority needs.

Many controller/display kits have "a range" of user-alterable settings, but I don't know which ones will do all of the specific things you want to be able to do; you'll need to determine that by comparing their features with your needs.


The most customizable setup I can think of would be a Phaserunner controller, using the Cycle Analyst v3.x to interpret the user inputs (PAS/throttle/ebrake/etc) and give you adjustable assist levels...but this will require a lot more user-setup to get the system to work the way you want it to, simply *because* there is so much to customize both on the CA and the PR before it will work with any specific set of stuff in any specific way.

The next most customizable setup I can think of would be a non-adjustable no-display controller, using the Cycle Analyst v3.x in place of the controller's adjustability...but this will still require a lot of user-setup to get the system to work the way you want it to, simply *because* there is so much to customize.

The KT controller/display setup with the OSFW is probably the next in line, and then the KT with OEM FW.

VESC is another option, it is probably comparable to the PR in programmability, but I am not sure if there is any version that supports PAS (you'd have to verify this).