Turnigy HXT Powered Custom Cruiser Worklog

[AussieJester]

Indeed Matt...if i could pedal first i wouldnt be changing a thing it works fine when going
full throttle its just getting there LoL...

Lyens has PMed me he also has the Infinion 12fet controllers and has quoted $US95 delivered, im am still waiting to hear back from Methy as i pmed him prior to Lyens offer, if Patrick hasn't got the 12 fet controller i will definately grab the one Lyens has...

Cheers fellas

KiM

 

[liveforphysics]

Make sure to snip at least 1 leg off on that cap that puked. It's just a matter of time before they dry inside, short internally, and cause damage to the board, or at the least downtime from a blown fuse etc.


RC controllers are perfect for driving a prop, or 2-20lbs RC car, or heli etc. Situations with roughly zero starting load, and situations where continous power loading is very limited.

Surface mount FETs in RC controllers can't cool, and it doesn't really matter how many heatsinks you apply, the thermal path from FET to sink isn't there. No sensorless controller design can offer control until the rotor is sending a BEMF shape to look at, so to start they just have to play a fixed starting program looped over and over (the jitters you feel trying to start from a stop). Also, being tied to a 50v limit is pretty lame, and very performance limiting for these low KV motors.

Sensors + infinion + RC motor = All problems solved, except they do unfortunately take up about 10x more space.

 

[AussieJester]

Sensors + infinion + RC motor = All problems solved, except they do unfortunately take up about 10x more space.

The size of the 12 fet infineon is acceptable...just, still lil large for my taste but i have room to fit it
in the enclosure. I thought i would have a shot at doing up a bracket and fitting the sensors myself
i was going to copy Burties setup/spacing/bracket idea...seeing your flat out at the moment and heading for holidays in a few weeks and the bike will be stationary until i have this sorted, just need to find a source for the hall sensors that takes PayPal, have pmed gwhy to see what he uses, i have a link to what Jeremy Uses but they dont do paypal, worse comes to worse, i have the $$ for a cyclone setup so if it all gets to much hassle thats what ill be getting i cant mess that up all plug and play After getting a taste of the 2 wheel action again i just want to ride the thing rather than mess with it.

KiM

 

[amberwolf]

Don't some of these RC controllers have removeable/stackable power output sections? If so, why not just "whip up" a version of those stages made with non-SMT parts, with more efficient heat-removal packaging? Get Keywin or similar to make up a bunch of them and get rich from all the people that want the small RC controller packaging but need the higher sustained power?

 

[liveforphysics]

Don't some of these RC controllers have removeable/stackable power output sections? If so, why not just "whip up" a version of those stages made with non-SMT parts, with more efficient heat-removal packaging? Get Keywin or similar to make up a bunch of them and get rich from all the people that want the small RC controller packaging but need the higher sustained power?

I did this Amberwolf. It died from a FET pass-through event, but it worked OK for a few rides. I used 4110's, and there are some pics up of it somewhere on here. The problem for an application like KiM's is the starting from zero RPM underload situation. No amount of good FET stage can make the motor feed a BEMF signal if it's not spinning fast enough yet, and neither of us want to have a bike we have to pedal to get moving before we can fully use the available power.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Surface mount FETs in RC controllers can't cool, and it doesn't really matter how many heatsinks you apply, the thermal path from FET to sink isn't there.

I have used surface mount controllers for hundred and hundreds of hours now without a single FET failure, and the heatsink seems to warm up just fine when they are pushed :wink: Plenty of popped caps though, just like AJ has experienced. A new cap bank seems to be in order for long term reliability. I agree that sensored controllers have more appeal if you don't want to pedal at first.

 

[AussieJester]

A new cap bank seems to be in order for long term reliability. I agree that sensored controllers have more appeal if you don't want to pedal at first.

I run 5 additional caps beforethe HV110 the cap that blew did so when the bike was stationary, i did obviously have the power on (my mistake) when i was fitting the lid back on the battery enclosure, this is when it crapped itself not under use...no idea why i didnt even touch it...just went bang and a flash..

Like Luke says, need to be able to start without pedalling its just too dangerous for me to have it like it is, i have already ran off the road once at a 'T' junction and laid the bike over because of it, thus i have now parked it up till i can improve it...Positive side though bike rides beautifully is stable as a rock when up to speed, the rake/trail is spot on, i would have hit 50km/hr easily on return trips downhill the bike is stable as a motorcyle at speed, 80-90km/hr would be the same i fell...just need the tires /rims that are upto that :-S

KiM

 

[johnrobholmes]

the cap that blew did so when the bike was stationary, i did obviously have the power on (my mistake) when i was fitting the lid back on the battery enclosure, this is when it crapped itself not under use...no idea why i didnt even touch it...just went bang and a flash..

KiM

Same as mine, always when stationary. The stock caps just go, even with replacements on there too.

 

[liveforphysics]

Surface mount FETs in RC controllers can't cool, and it doesn't really matter how many heatsinks you apply, the thermal path from FET to sink isn't there.

I have used surface mount controllers for hundred and hundreds of hours now without a single FET failure, and the heatsink seems to warm up just fine when they are pushed :wink: Plenty of popped caps though, just like AJ has experienced. A new cap bank seems to be in order for long term reliability. I agree that sensored controllers have more appeal if you don't want to pedal at first.

If you're not pushing them hard enough to get warm, then just like in an RC vehicle, it's not a problem. Run a big HXT motor rather than an Astro (depending on the Astro wind resistance, the HXT could be like running 4-6 astro motors in parallel) and see how well they hold up.

 

[Hyena]

You're going to hate me for suggesting this, but what about a small frock motor on the front wheel to get you going ? Something like a little cute brushless geared motor. They're less than 2kg so would add SFA weight to your bike and being geared they freewheel with no drag and they're so small they would be totally hidden behind your disc brake. You could use your existing 12S lipo pack to power it and a small lil 6 fet controller and even run it sensorless. You'd be talking $100 USD for the motor AND controller.

It'd actually be a good backstop, especially in your situation. If you were out somewhere and you happened to blow a belt or something else in your gearing set up failed because of your poor workmanship ( ) the little fella could 'limp home' at 30km/hr.

 

[AussieJester]

You're going to hate me for suggesting this

Not hate...just mock you LoL..I could also get a mini skirt while im at it perhaps have a mani and pedicure hair permed HECK why stop there, i'll book myself in for a full sex change and breast implants

NO...i want it to launch hard, like my trike did, the halls will fix it or a cyclone...im actually starting to lean towards a cyclone again tbh, no messing about at all, I know i will have hassles fitting halls now, i have no idea how to do it and theres no guides about what wires go where etc...Cyclone option i can simply knock up a motor mount bolt it on plug it in and im away, fast enough for this ride Matt P does near 60km in single speed mode now takes off nice and smooooth, i can get the rc happening on the next bike when Luke and the lads have a better 'bolt on' hall sensor option for the outrunners...shall sleep on it, Monday tomorrow...will either order a Cyclone 1500watt/speed controller or a Infinion then...

KiM

 

[amberwolf]

@LFP: I must've missed that thread.

Re: the stationary cap problem. Since it isn't going to be a current-flow-generated heat problem causing it, as there is nothing being put into or pulled out of them at that point, the only other thing that would typically blow caps violently is gassing caused by overvoltage.

As it is unlikely the voltage is suddenly increasing on them to something well above their marked voltages, I'd guess that there is possibly a serious problem with mismarked components, probably counterfeit ones that aren't actually anywhere near the rated voltage, *or* they are some of the super-cheap ones that have a problem with the electrolyte formula and/or in combination with poor quality separator films/layers.

At a guess the separators are failing with a punch-thru between the foil layers in the roll, and arcing which then vaporizes some of the electrolyte and BANG. This kind of event could probably be verified by peeling the can off, then unrolling the foil to see if there is a burn mark on the separators. At a guess the vaporization process pushes the layers apart again beyond arcing distance, and that's why the event doesn't result in a fire or complete electrical short.

 

[Hyena]

i'll book myself in for a full sex change and breast implants

Best mod you've suggested all thread !

 

[AussieJester]

i'll book myself in for a full sex change and breast implants

Best mod you've suggested all thread !

From your personal experience could you recommend a surgeon for the nip tuck? Or should i just get loaded and DIY it, got a few ballons here could fill those with jelly for the implants?

KiM

 

[liveforphysics]

Overvoltage of course kills a cap, but ripple does it just as well. Everytime the cap feels ripple, the delta-V*ESR wattage all comes out as internal heating on the cap. The cap gets some heat cycles on it, leaks out enough of its dielectric fluid, and then the next time you go to hook power to it, POP! it has a little foil-arc event inside somewhere, and the gas produced blows the little vent-hole in the back of the cap like we see with KiM's cap. Such is the nature of caps, and the reason I splurge on the 100v monsters with the giant thick legs and uber-low ESR. However, having some smaller caps in there is equally critical for dampening the higher frequency ripples that the big caps are useless for.

i'll book myself in for a full sex change and breast implants

Best mod you've suggested all thread !

From your personal experience could you recommend a surgeon for the nip tuck? Or should i just get loaded and DIY it, got a few ballons here could fill those with jelly for the implants?

KiM

I've never considdered that to be the difficult part to overcome for a male to female sex change. lol

 

[AussieJester]

I've never considdered that to be the difficult part to overcome for a male to female sex change. lol

Be careful Luke, you could start growing lady bumps when your in Costa Ricca :: wink ::

KiM

 

[Hyena]

 

[AussieJester]

^^ I'd hit that with a baseball bat.. LMFAO nice chop mate i thought about doing it myself TBH hehehee...

KiM

EDIT: you forgotz to add the front frock motor though !

 

[AussieJester]

These 12fet Infineon controllers lads, do they happen to have a 12v output lead on them at all? one i could possibly run my linear actuator off?

KiM

 

[liveforphysics]

These 12fet Infineon controllers lads, do they happen to have a 12v output lead on them at all? one i could possibly run my linear actuator off?

KiM

They do not. But if your actuator draws less than ~5amps, one could be built that fits inside the case, but it would take somebody pretty slick with electronics.

 

[AussieJester]

These 12fet Infineon controllers lads, do they happen to have a 12v output lead on them at all? one i could possibly run my linear actuator off?

KiM

They do not. But if your actuator draws less than ~5amps, one could be built that fits inside the case, but it would take somebody pretty slick with electronics.

Yeah a fella on Australian EV forum offered to build me one for ~50 bucks...havent heard back from him though :-( I think i might just get a new lipo
possible even 18v job have an external charge plug for it and go that way, the puffed knackered (yes im using a puffed Lipo Luke LoL) is working fine lowering and raising the actuators, i only charged it once since i go it too LoL... I'm using the actuators to get on and off the bike and riding out my driveway mostly, only the odd occasion on the road when i can't see the traffic either way, i try to keep rolling when possible, be sooooo much easier when i have the ESC sorted though....


I just fired off another email to Paco at Cyclone, i just noticed they list the 600-1200watt motors as having external gearbox :-| I dont want one iwht a gearbox, just checking it the 1500watt has the gearbox on it, if it does, im wondering if it is usable without? or is the shaft short or...? Anyone aware of the 1500watt motor? Is good for 4500watt as is Matt.P 1000watt I wouldn't mind the exact motor he has TBH but its no longer listed there is no 1000watt motor at all and this whole gearbox business doesn't sit well with me at all...

KiM

p.s it was puffed when Matt.P lent it too me...tiz a Turnigy 11.v jobby...

 

[liveforphysics]

I have a hunch that the actuators would love to run off a 5s LiPo pack. I bet it cuts the up/down time in half, and over-heating wont be an issue for the very low duty cycle you're putting on them.

You should try giving it ~18-20v, and see how the movement goes. I bet it works great.

 

[AussieJester]

You should try giving it ~18-20v, and see how the movement goes. I bet it works great.

I bet your right, only thing i was worried about though Luke was burning the motor out? you dont think this would be an issue? I haven't been able to find any info on this actuator other than it runs off 12v...Others i have olooked at (different brand name) say they run on 12-15v...I would love for it too be quicker though quick is good, they are a lil slow running on the puffed lipo but heaps of power can lift my heavy ass off the ground sitting on the bike, bent all the threaded rods in the pivots doing it though have to replace those with high tensile steel jobs...i dont do this regularly though, i take the weight off the bikes rear when lifting back wheel off the ground now so as not to strain the actuaotr and/or battery...

Ill grab a Turnigy 18v lipo oh oh oh maybe a Lifep04 pack even Luke what ya thinkz mate?

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10311&Product_Name=Turnigy_4500mAh_6S2P_30C_LiFePo4_Pack

Ill grab the cheapest dirtiest charger i can find to charge it up, mount a plug like i used for the throttle/actuator wiring on the front of the enclosure..

KiM

EDIT: maybe a silly question Luke..but would 48 v kill it quick?

 

[liveforphysics]

For short-time use like you're doing, I really highly doubt the motor will ever burn-up in the actuator. It just doesn't have time to get hot, even if it were being very over powered, and then it has plenty of time to cool before it gets used again.

I think that pack is way way over kill, but it would work. lol

I think a little guy like this would do a great job, cut that actuator's movement time in half, cost about nothing, weigh about nothing, and likely go for months on a charge.

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9761&Product_Name=Turnigy_1800mAh_4S_20C_Lipo_Pack

 

[AussieJester]

I think a little guy like this would do a great job,

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9761&Product_Name=Turnigy_1800mAh_4S_20C_Lipo_Pack

Done...ordered and paid for...cheers Luke Actuator battery sorted ....

Where do you buy the hall sensors from Luke? Gwhy listed a few places for me but none do paypal and i have ne credit card

KiM