Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells
- Thread starter miuan
- Start date
KINNINVIEKID
1 kW
I have given up on the idea of trying to get a decent amount of power into the EM3EV bag as the most that I can fit(using my current 2 x 16Ah Multis is another 2 x 10Ah so the bag is going to be used for the 16's only for local riding and I am getting an Additive bag V2 for when I need more range.
http://www.additive-bikes.com/additive-bag-v2/additive-bag-v2.html
My intention is to put at least 4 x 16s in there for long rides and use the EM3 bag for tools,spares,beer etc.
EM3EV in the frame
A pair of 16Ah and a 10Ah (yes that box is the right size).
And where the other 10Ah would fit.
http://www.additive-bikes.com/additive-bag-v2/additive-bag-v2.html
My intention is to put at least 4 x 16s in there for long rides and use the EM3 bag for tools,spares,beer etc.
EM3EV in the frame
A pair of 16Ah and a 10Ah (yes that box is the right size).
And where the other 10Ah would fit.
Alan B
100 GW
12S 26AH is a very nice pack, what's wrong with that?
DAND214
10 MW
10c they are not 
I have 2 setups both are 12s1p. The sag is big for just a 35amp draw with a 12t Mac. I know it's cold out here and I also know they will do better when it's warmer.
I did a light load test on a new BMS setup to test LVC of it. From HVC to LVC the load was only 8 amps start. The battery was a full 16Ah but was very warm after the test Room temp was about 65f but the pack was very warm, not hot.
Maybe at 32Ah it might be better but than again your load will be much higher than mine will ever be. I know the 20C 4s hardpacks are better under load than these are and the 6s 20C Tunigys are better yet.
I do like the Multistars for the simplicity of the wirind. It will be a while before I really know if they are any good at all. Maybe by the end of 2015 will tell me.
These are the cheapest ones out there at this time. Yeah the hard packs might cost a little less but need a lot of wiring, connectors and so on. So all you can do is roll the dice and go for it.
Dan
I have 2 setups both are 12s1p. The sag is big for just a 35amp draw with a 12t Mac. I know it's cold out here and I also know they will do better when it's warmer.
I did a light load test on a new BMS setup to test LVC of it. From HVC to LVC the load was only 8 amps start. The battery was a full 16Ah but was very warm after the test Room temp was about 65f but the pack was very warm, not hot.
Maybe at 32Ah it might be better but than again your load will be much higher than mine will ever be. I know the 20C 4s hardpacks are better under load than these are and the 6s 20C Tunigys are better yet.
I do like the Multistars for the simplicity of the wirind. It will be a while before I really know if they are any good at all. Maybe by the end of 2015 will tell me.
These are the cheapest ones out there at this time. Yeah the hard packs might cost a little less but need a lot of wiring, connectors and so on. So all you can do is roll the dice and go for it.
Dan
Alan B
100 GW
Another good reason to use 26AH instead of 16AH. Keep the rate down and lower the heating.
teslanv
1 MW
I get noticeably more sag in cold weather, even on my 20C Hardcase packs. Range is also reduced in cold weather.
The temp this morning was 25F here in Western Washington. Nice and clear with no snow, though. Great ride into work.
The temp this morning was 25F here in Western Washington. Nice and clear with no snow, though. Great ride into work.
DAND214
10 MW
25, that's a heat wave right now. 5f this morning and maybe 20 for a high. I might ride to DD for a cup of coffee.
I don't know 30mph widns is reaally cold, I guess I better put a coat on :lol:
We'll see how the MultiStars are a t 3.85 a cell in this cold.
Still only 6f right now out there?
Yes the 20c packs still are better than the Multis in the cold. I don't need the high C rate but want the pack to live a while.
I don't know 30mph widns is reaally cold, I guess I better put a coat on :lol:
We'll see how the MultiStars are a t 3.85 a cell in this cold.
Still only 6f right now out there?
Yes the 20c packs still are better than the Multis in the cold. I don't need the high C rate but want the pack to live a while.
Alan B
100 GW
Like most low C rate batteries, they trade capacity for rate with the Multistar. The best way to use low C rate batteries in in larger parallel packs. In my CroBorg I can fit four 8AH packs in parallel and 3*6S in series, so 18S4P 32AH. At the 2.5C rate determined earlier this would allow 80 amp draw from the pack, which is only used for very brief periods. Normal draw is more like 10-20 amps.
KINNINVIEKID
1 kW
Its not enough to get me from my home in the middle of the country to my favourite town on the coast.WhitbyAlan B said:
DAND214 said:10c they are not
I have 2 setups both are 12s1p.
Dan
Multistar 16Ah batteries are 6s2p :wink:
Alan B
100 GW
Need to pedal more.
icecube57
10 MW
Alan B
100 GW
How "deep" (width between knees) is that bag, and are you stretching it beyond that to get two layers in?
Is that the FalconEV bag?
Thanks.
Is that the FalconEV bag?
Thanks.
icecube57
10 MW
115mm pack width.. My knees don't hit at all although you have to sttap it up tight and carefully to make sure it clears your Chainring
DAND214
10 MW
KINNINVIEKID said:DAND214 said:10c they are not
I have 2 setups both are 12s1p.
Dan
Multistar 16Ah batteries are 6s2p :wink:
Yes they are but my setup is 2 MS in series. So I have a 2s1p Confusing ha? 12s2p in normal pack terms would be 2 bricks in paralell and those two in series :?
As for my last ride for the year.
Went 7 miles at 14.5 mph avg and I used 3.3 Ah. Starting voltage 46.1 low voltage 41.1. End voltage was 45.1, cell drop was .2v per cell.
Oh, I fogot, it was cold 11f when I left and now it's a whole 15f i've been home a while.
Yes they do work and so far stayed balanced. Hope it stays that way for a couple years.
By then there should be improvements.
Dan
The 1/4th the C rate still applies to RC Lipo today. If you operate at 1/4th of the rated C, you will get excellent performance and near the full watt hours. Above that, the situation gets dramatically worse.
Another thing you ought to make note of is the IR curve. Internal Resistance is at it's lowest through 80% of the SOC. The upper end of the voltage and lower end of the voltage have significantly higher resistance, which is probably why you noticed that the pack was fairly warm after you were done discharging it. You wouldn't have noticed that heat mid-way through the discharge. This is pretty normal.
Even my 20C 5AH packs got a bit warm on a 3 amp load while discharging all the way to 3.2v average per cell. Before they hit 3.6v, they were within 0.1 degrees of ambient temperature.
How cold is it out there? between room temp and the freezing point, most lithium batteries can see a 4x multiplication of internal resistance. 0.2v drop per cell is pretty extreme tho.
Another thing you ought to make note of is the IR curve. Internal Resistance is at it's lowest through 80% of the SOC. The upper end of the voltage and lower end of the voltage have significantly higher resistance, which is probably why you noticed that the pack was fairly warm after you were done discharging it. You wouldn't have noticed that heat mid-way through the discharge. This is pretty normal.
Even my 20C 5AH packs got a bit warm on a 3 amp load while discharging all the way to 3.2v average per cell. Before they hit 3.6v, they were within 0.1 degrees of ambient temperature.
How cold is it out there? between room temp and the freezing point, most lithium batteries can see a 4x multiplication of internal resistance. 0.2v drop per cell is pretty extreme tho.
DAND214 said:10c they are not
I have 2 setups both are 12s1p. The sag is big for just a 35amp draw with a 12t Mac. I know it's cold out here and I also know they will do better when it's warmer.
I did a light load test on a new BMS setup to test LVC of it. From HVC to LVC the load was only 8 amps start. The battery was a full 16Ah but was very warm after the test Room temp was about 65f but the pack was very warm, not hot.
Maybe at 32Ah it might be better but than again your load will be much higher than mine will ever be. I know the 20C 4s hardpacks are better under load than these are and the 6s 20C Tunigys are better yet.
I do like the Multistars for the simplicity of the wirind. It will be a while before I really know if they are any good at all. Maybe by the end of 2015 will tell me.
These are the cheapest ones out there at this time. Yeah the hard packs might cost a little less but need a lot of wiring, connectors and so on. So all you can do is roll the dice and go for it.
Dan
DAND214
10 MW
OMG what a 20 deg change in temps does.
Went the same 6 miles at the same average speed of 14mph with a top speed of 22. My wh/m went from 24 down to 19. I even added a couple wind breaks for my hands and it still was better than when it was 9f last year (Wed).
Abut the 6th charge AND THEY ARE STAYING IN PERFECT BALANCE.
Bulk charging not balance charged.
I don't think I will get the BMS pack test ridden till spring.
Dan
Went the same 6 miles at the same average speed of 14mph with a top speed of 22. My wh/m went from 24 down to 19. I even added a couple wind breaks for my hands and it still was better than when it was 9f last year (Wed).
Abut the 6th charge AND THEY ARE STAYING IN PERFECT BALANCE.
Bulk charging not balance charged.
I don't think I will get the BMS pack test ridden till spring.
Dan
gblast123
1 W
Hobbyking is selling the xt90 "harnesses".. either parallel or serial versions.
I ordered a bunch of the parallel versions and will put Andersons on the bottom of the "Y" parallel.. by knocking off the female xt90 portion.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=63485
They I can cross connect them later to put the pak in series.
they are real cheap.. 6s, plus 2 - 4s..gives me a 14s pack for less than 300 and a 2p/14s 32Ah pack for less than 600.. with shipping and connectors/harnesses.
I am also looking to use the 4s packs (16000) as substitutes for the 12v/12ah Lead batteries that are commonly used for 3 wheel mobility scooters.
In a pinch, i can use the regular 24v charger that comes with the mobility scooter to bulk charge the pack up to about 3.7v per cell.
At that price, they are a viable alternative to lead acid batteries.
I ordered a bunch of the parallel versions and will put Andersons on the bottom of the "Y" parallel.. by knocking off the female xt90 portion.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=63485
They I can cross connect them later to put the pak in series.
they are real cheap.. 6s, plus 2 - 4s..gives me a 14s pack for less than 300 and a 2p/14s 32Ah pack for less than 600..
with shipping and connectors/harnesses.I am also looking to use the 4s packs (16000) as substitutes for the 12v/12ah Lead batteries that are commonly used for 3 wheel mobility scooters.
In a pinch, i can use the regular 24v charger that comes with the mobility scooter to bulk charge the pack up to about 3.7v per cell.
At that price, they are a viable alternative to lead acid batteries.
DAND214
10 MW
Spose you have any links for them?
Dan
Dan
KINNINVIEKID
1 kW
gblast123
1 W
miuan said:
I think a look at any Lipo discharge curve would indicate that your statement has little to no merit.
But take a look and get back to me on this.
gblast123
1 W
The problem is his usage of the term "almost empty"
Most discharge curves indicate, at moderate drain rates, a voltage of 3.7 gives u about 40% residual capacity when looking at a 3.0v cut-off.
This varies with drain rates, temp. etc.
I consider "almost empty" to mean less than 10% residual capacity at a 3.0v cut-off at room temp.. ie. 70-80 F.
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/32321/lipoly-battery-when-to-stop-draining
Most discharge curves indicate, at moderate drain rates, a voltage of 3.7 gives u about 40% residual capacity when looking at a 3.0v cut-off.
This varies with drain rates, temp. etc.
I consider "almost empty" to mean less than 10% residual capacity at a 3.0v cut-off at room temp.. ie. 70-80 F.
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/32321/lipoly-battery-when-to-stop-draining
Alan B
100 GW
Don't confuse 3.7V resting with 3.7V under load.
