UK electric bike rally/race
- Thread starter NickF23
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safe
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Wow, it amazes me that you guys are limited to 250 Watts. Why did they do that? Here in America the minimum you are allowed is 750 Watts and most states allow 1500 Watts.
Who set the low limit?
Why aren't you guys fighting like crazy to get it raised?
(we've got guys here in the US that are even cheating a bit and going ABOVE 1500 Watts and getting away with it!)
Who set the low limit? Why aren't you guys fighting like crazy to get it raised?(we've got guys here in the US that are even cheating a bit and going ABOVE 1500 Watts and getting away with it!)
xyster
10 MW
Damn nanny state bureaucrats don't know what's good for themselves nevertheless their citizens. By misregulating/overregulating small ev's, governments prevent the widespread adoption of technologies that could help fix this global warming mess, also making a fix cost much less.
safe
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xyster said:
Well this gets back to the "Adult" verses "Child" argument for how ebikes should be seen by the law. Since the "nanny state" treats everyone like a "child" they have to restrict to the level of the smallest most vulnerable person. If they could separate the "Adults" from the "Children" in the ebike laws this could get cleared up.
A high limit for everyone is wrong.
A low limit for everyone is wrong.
At least America has the love of "muscle cars" and that helped a little in our ebike limits.
This stupid law came about in 1983 or so before that electric vehicles had to be taxed and insured like a car, it was a ridiculous situation.
Its amazing the performance I get with 250W and some peddling :lol:
Yes though we should start to do something the limit needs to be around 1kw in my opinion to be safe.
And yes I will be at the rally with the BMX the KMX and the Trek, going to try and get Steve Head to go as well, Mark from Team Hybrid will be there along with Tony Castles from electrodrive.
Cheers
Knoxie
Its amazing the performance I get with 250W and some peddling :lol:
Yes though we should start to do something the limit needs to be around 1kw in my opinion to be safe.
And yes I will be at the rally with the BMX the KMX and the Trek, going to try and get Steve Head to go as well, Mark from Team Hybrid will be there along with Tony Castles from electrodrive.
Cheers
Knoxie
safe
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You guys need to get politically active and you might seriously give some thought to the idea of separating out the children from the adults. Most of the arguments you will get against more power are going to be focused on "little johnny so and so who crashes his electric bike and doesn't make it to his ninth birthday, blah, blah, blah." If people who are old enough to drive are separated out then you can expect them to be more responsible than "crazy kids". (who are hell bent to injure themselves anyway)
Geebee
1 kW
A large part of the arguement is that it is about what an average passably fit adult can generate and therefore is a good match for a human powered bike.
They got even more strict in Australia and we have a peak output of 200w at the shaft, in reality they allow 200w continuous.
There have been repeated attemps to get it raised but to no avail, the authorities just don't realise all parts of OZ are not flat.
Bear in mind if your are running more than the legal limit and have an accident you may end up in debt for the rest of your life plus you will get a criminal conviction on file and a small possibility of jail time due to being unlicenced, unregistered, uninsured on a non road worthy vehicle.
I would love a 750w limit and think realistically any higher is really a motorbike as the amount of power is way beyond human levels and you are running in a speed envelope that will dramatically raise the possibility of an accident.
But the choice is each persons to make, just bear in mind the possible consequences
I will admit to having a 500w bike in my stable.
They got even more strict in Australia and we have a peak output of 200w at the shaft, in reality they allow 200w continuous.
There have been repeated attemps to get it raised but to no avail, the authorities just don't realise all parts of OZ are not flat.
Bear in mind if your are running more than the legal limit and have an accident you may end up in debt for the rest of your life plus you will get a criminal conviction on file and a small possibility of jail time due to being unlicenced, unregistered, uninsured on a non road worthy vehicle.
I would love a 750w limit and think realistically any higher is really a motorbike as the amount of power is way beyond human levels and you are running in a speed envelope that will dramatically raise the possibility of an accident.
But the choice is each persons to make, just bear in mind the possible consequences
I will admit to having a 500w bike in my stable.
Hi
The way I see it is if you have an accident on an assist bike they would have to prove that you were using the motor at the time of the accident, just having the bike capable of powering the bike over the limit doesn't mean you use it on the road? does it, a court would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt. I would argue it was me peddling.
I think it has never been tested, sure if you have a petrol engine and the cops see you you have had it but its pretty much impossible to detect if you were using your motor and even if the motor can is warm you could argue that you were using the motor off road at the time.
Its so tricky to contest this is why I say 1kw is a good limit, I will agree there would be no argument if you were doing 35mph on a 100lb mountain bike and you have a crash you have no chance, but 1KW will whiz you around at a nice safe and efficient 21-24mph or so.
Ill stand corrected but I don't think that anyone has been prosecuted for using an electric bike, all I could find was someone with an electric scooter that ran in to someone had it confiscated but that's all. (in the UK)
I think if you are sensible and you don't take stupid risks you will be fine, the police and the courts really do have better things to worry about and at the end of the day if you kill someone whilst riding your bike std or electric and it is ruled that it is your fault you will be in a whole heap of trouble anyway.
Just my 2 cents
Knoxie
The way I see it is if you have an accident on an assist bike they would have to prove that you were using the motor at the time of the accident, just having the bike capable of powering the bike over the limit doesn't mean you use it on the road? does it, a court would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt. I would argue it was me peddling.
I think it has never been tested, sure if you have a petrol engine and the cops see you you have had it but its pretty much impossible to detect if you were using your motor and even if the motor can is warm you could argue that you were using the motor off road at the time.
Its so tricky to contest this is why I say 1kw is a good limit, I will agree there would be no argument if you were doing 35mph on a 100lb mountain bike and you have a crash you have no chance, but 1KW will whiz you around at a nice safe and efficient 21-24mph or so.
Ill stand corrected but I don't think that anyone has been prosecuted for using an electric bike, all I could find was someone with an electric scooter that ran in to someone had it confiscated but that's all. (in the UK)
I think if you are sensible and you don't take stupid risks you will be fine, the police and the courts really do have better things to worry about and at the end of the day if you kill someone whilst riding your bike std or electric and it is ruled that it is your fault you will be in a whole heap of trouble anyway.
Just my 2 cents
Knoxie
First of all, most cops don't carry around a DrainBrain or even a Fluke meter, so they won't have a clue what the actual power is. If you were really paranoid, you could rig a hidden switch that changes the current limit or the max throttle setting.
A small magnetic reed switch, like the kind they use for burglar alarms, could be activated by the presence of a magnet. Take away the magnet, and it switches. Use your imagination.
A small magnetic reed switch, like the kind they use for burglar alarms, could be activated by the presence of a magnet. Take away the magnet, and it switches. Use your imagination.
I haven't even looked at the uk law yet - i do remember steve head's video of the "legal" scooter up his drive,totally pathetic.
Being as im only using my bike in the forest i don't think i'm actually breaking any laws at all - the only restriction is motorvehicles and i'm not sure if ebikes fall into that catergory?
Knoxie what will be the power of my puma when it's built?
Either way i think i would have to be very unlucky to a)have anyone report me b)be stopped by a cop who knew what i was riding c)actually have anyone decide it was in the publics interest to prosecute.
Does anyone know in the places where ebikes have to be insured if you pick up a penalty of any kind does it affect your driving licence the way a car offence would?
D
Being as im only using my bike in the forest i don't think i'm actually breaking any laws at all - the only restriction is motorvehicles and i'm not sure if ebikes fall into that catergory?
Knoxie what will be the power of my puma when it's built?
Either way i think i would have to be very unlucky to a)have anyone report me b)be stopped by a cop who knew what i was riding c)actually have anyone decide it was in the publics interest to prosecute.
Does anyone know in the places where ebikes have to be insured if you pick up a penalty of any kind does it affect your driving licence the way a car offence would?
D
safe
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Geebee said:
It's too bad that this argument even exists. Electric motorized bikes are not necessarily the same as bicycles. To try to "force" the bicycle mentality onto an electric motorbike is to premanently prevent it's evolution.
The main issue about ebikes is that they are small and electric. Motor size should be less than a motorcyle that can travel at freeway speeds, but it should be able to get you around town on the suburban streets. (and be able to keep up)
If someone has a "drivers license" they should be able to obey the same laws on a bike as they do in their cars. And the liability for a bike hitting something is far less than an automobile. How much damage can be done on a lightweight bicycle if it stays on the street competing with automobiles?
If someone were riding on the sidewalk they should get a ticket just like if a motorcycle rode on the sidewalk.
To me the classifications are very simple... but I guess everyone doesn't "see" the vision of how things should be in the same way...
Ebike equals "Suburban Streets Transportation"?
A
Anonymous
Guest
Keep in mind that it was only about a 100 years ago or so that car drivers had to have someone walk ahead of them with a red flag to warn everyone of its imminent presence, etc....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotive_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_to_Brighton_run#History
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotive_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_to_Brighton_run#History
I think the problem is that people dont know what to think yet. When you say electric bike to 5 different people youll probably get 5 different ideas. Some people think transportation for handicapped people, others think of a an expensive christmas present for a spoiled child, others think of little zappy scooters that can go 10 mph for not nearly that many miles, some think of the underpowered bicycles that you might find in department stores, a few might even think of a fisher price toy with big hard plastic wheels. I dont think there are very many people that realize what we have accomplished, we are still a very small community when your talking about pushing legislation in our favor.
Joe
Joe
Geebee
1 kW
First up I have no problem with the power you guys are using, I was just pointing out a possible consequence to such use for those that had not thought it through, I don't think the cops would normally worry but if you have an accident?
Also I think the law regarding an un-road worthy car would not require their proving that the motor was in use, just the fact you were riding on the road with a bike that has a motor above the limit makes it a motorbike at least in OZ.
Oh and just to prove the Police may pull you over heres a cut and paste That I wrote in a velomobile forum last night:
"I finally got pulled over by the Police, it's only taken 7 months.
Someone reported a "motorised bike speeding through traffic", I suspect someone in a car didn't like getting blown off at the lights by a velomobile (the area of the report is all downhill on the route I take).
They had at least 3 cars out after me that I saw, the officer asked a few general questions like how is it up hill etc. then said he could see me pedalling as he pulled me over and he would tell everyone I was a bike, and to have a good day."
This velo is about as fast as some of your quicker e~ebikes (as long as it is not uphill )
Also I think the law regarding an un-road worthy car would not require their proving that the motor was in use, just the fact you were riding on the road with a bike that has a motor above the limit makes it a motorbike at least in OZ.
Oh and just to prove the Police may pull you over heres a cut and paste That I wrote in a velomobile forum last night:
"I finally got pulled over by the Police, it's only taken 7 months.
Someone reported a "motorised bike speeding through traffic", I suspect someone in a car didn't like getting blown off at the lights by a velomobile (the area of the report is all downhill on the route I take).
They had at least 3 cars out after me that I saw, the officer asked a few general questions like how is it up hill etc. then said he could see me pedalling as he pulled me over and he would tell everyone I was a bike, and to have a good day."
This velo is about as fast as some of your quicker e~ebikes (as long as it is not uphill
)Hi
Yes its the peddling thing you see, if they see you peddling they think its OK I get the same thing on the KMX they see your legs going around and they don't bother you.
If you haven't got peddles though all cops know its a purely motorised vehicle and is not all owed on the roads without all the usual documents.
Would love to see some pics of your set-up and video.
Cheers
Knoxie
I have no doubt in that thing you would eat us all on the flat with only a couple of hundred watts.
Yes its the peddling thing you see, if they see you peddling they think its OK I get the same thing on the KMX they see your legs going around and they don't bother you.
If you haven't got peddles though all cops know its a purely motorised vehicle and is not all owed on the roads without all the usual documents.
Would love to see some pics of your set-up and video.
Cheers
Knoxie
I have no doubt in that thing you would eat us all on the flat with only a couple of hundred watts.
Reid Welch
1 MW
I say, rrrripping fun that wasNickF23 said:
with a good commercial twist (the video finish!) :lol:
You Brits know how to have communal fun!
Thanking also, 50cycles.com for their promotion of ebiking in the UK.
I see that the "winner" of that fun-rally is their top-flite bike: the E-Z Torque.
Noting that it's got the Tongxin motor which has been lightly discussed here of late;
will start a Tongxin motor motor-only thread.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4134#4134
I envision that motor as being quite attractive for two-wheel drive:
extra power on demand!
cheers,
r.
Hi Reid,
I missed last years event. does seem like a laugh so I'l be going this year.
I think the victory for the ezee torq is pretty impressive. I imagine it was a direstricted torq (top speed up to 25mph) but even so it would have been underpowered compared to some of the bikes there. There's a really funny writeup of the whole event in in a-b magazine.
Funny thing is the law here is 15mph top speed electric but were a pretty anarchic bunch so who knows what will happen
I missed last years event. does seem like a laugh so I'l be going this year.
I think the victory for the ezee torq is pretty impressive. I imagine it was a direstricted torq (top speed up to 25mph) but even so it would have been underpowered compared to some of the bikes there. There's a really funny writeup of the whole event in in a-b magazine.
Funny thing is the law here is 15mph top speed electric but were a pretty anarchic bunch so who knows what will happen
Hi Nick,
just for info the NEC is hosting the bike show on the 28th 29th of April.
tickects are £18.50 and £8.00 for parking.
I'm not expecting too many ebikes there but there should be a good selection of bikes to see and at least the odd ebike here and there.
I'll be going with a couple of mates who aren't too interested in bikes but as i went to the skate show there my mate said he'll come for company - i'll take a good few photos on the day and post them if anyone's interested.
cheers
D
just for info the NEC is hosting the bike show on the 28th 29th of April.
tickects are £18.50 and £8.00 for parking.
I'm not expecting too many ebikes there but there should be a good selection of bikes to see and at least the odd ebike here and there.
I'll be going with a couple of mates who aren't too interested in bikes but as i went to the skate show there my mate said he'll come for company - i'll take a good few photos on the day and post them if anyone's interested.
cheers
D
:wink:
