Version 2 Crystalyte Controller information

[solarbbq2003]

the regen braking works like this:
you have to connect the abs to ground with controller power off, then use the HL pin ( low brake handle) to activate the regen which instead of the brake handle acting as controller off, it activates the regen. To disable the regen you have to switch off controller then disconnect the abs pin from ground. Then you'll be back to the HL pin to ground acting as power off controller when use brake handle.
I haven't got any test data on the amount of regen you get back, will depend on your battery voltage at the time, the lower the battery the more regen you get, will have more info abit later on it.
Whatever settings you have at the start of power up you cant change on the fly, have to power off then change settings:
eg 60/120 degrees works the same. I guess the chip remembers setting when you power up and cant change setting till power off. I think its a good controller probably a few functions still remaining to be discovered.

 

[solarbbq2003]

its just on/off type regen I dont think any relation to throttle position

 

[solarbbq2003]

seems to have a ramp up type feature on teh regen, other controllers with regen seem to just hit the regen very hard,
this one seems to ramp it a bit

 

[calinb]

OK, T5 looks like a PNP high side driver. On the analog controller, this is a 2n5401.
The surface mount version of this is a MMBT5401: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MM/MMBT5401.pdf

You can get it from DigiKey: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=MMBT5401FSCT-ND $0.14ea.

Okay--assuming the Ver 2 output stage is the same as the analog controller, then N2 is the low side, 2N5551. Both N2 and T3 are blown on my Ver. 2 board. I haven't powered it up since I replace the six FETs with 4110s. Good thing I double checked the transistors! Don't know how I missed them before.

I think I'll try to find 2N5551 and 2N5401 replacements locally. (TO-92 through-hole package only, no doubt, but I should be able to tack the tips of shortened leads onto the pads and blob some glue or silicone sealant around them.)

Monster, Have you replaced your transistor and successfully powered up yet?

Thanks, Fecter!

-Cal

 

[mn_aerorider1]

the regen braking works like this:
you have to connect the abs to ground with controller power off, then use the HL pin ( low brake handle) to activate the regen which instead of the brake handle acting as controller off, it activates the regen. To disable the regen you have to switch off controller then disconnect the abs pin from ground. Then you'll be back to the HL pin to ground acting as power off controller when use brake handle.
I haven't got any test data on the amount of regen you get back, will depend on your battery voltage at the time, the lower the battery the more regen you get, will have more info abit later on it.
Whatever settings you have at the start of power up you cant change on the fly, have to power off then change settings:
eg 60/120 degrees works the same. I guess the chip remembers setting when you power up and cant change setting till power off. I think its a good controller probably a few functions still remaining to be discovered.

Thanks Solarbbq3!

That clarifies the use of the ABS line for regen braking immensely. Glad you pointed out that the ABS line needs to be grounded on power-up in order to enable the regen braking feature. I would have been stymied.

I plan to test this feature just using an ordinary switch, not a brake handle.

A few more operation questions for you: If I forget to set my brake switch back to floating high after power-up, will the motor be disabled until I do? Will the braking effect be stronger at higher speeds? and also decrease as the vehicle is slowing down, say versus just locking up? Besides the regen current being greater if the battery is lower, will the braking effect also be greater if the battery is lower?


Brian

 

[solarbbq2003]

I dont think any probs with locking up, the current isn't all that high, unless you had supercaps or similiar, HL pin is used on the fly not like abs pin, if have brake handles with cut off switches is the way to go, higher the speed the greater the breaking, decreases as slow down, effect bigger if battery volts lower, locking up not need to worry about. no data as yet will take a while

 

[The7]

solarbbq2003,
Is the colour wiring "100% match" for V2 to drive Crystal 4xxx motors?

Wonder if you have tried to reverse the rotation of the C-motor using the "reverse" pin?
If so, could you get the same reverse speed as its forward speed?

 

[rkosiorek]

the color match of all Crystalyte motors and controllers is a 100% match. never seen any changes on them.

at least they did that one thing right.

rick

 

[solarbbq2003]

haven't tried reverse sounds like its half speed though from other posts

 

[The7]

haven't tried reverse sounds like its half speed though from other posts

In that post, the driver uses a e-trike with an C409 motor and V2.
The drive-chain mechanism is contructed in such a way that the trike will go forward with the C-motor rotating in reverse.
And he seems to claim "by plug and play" (means 100% color match ?) for C-motor rotating in reverse (i.e. the trike moves forward).

So I have the big question :
"Why 100% colour match will rotate the C-motor in reverse without using the reverse pin?"

 

[rkosiorek]

So I have the big question :
"Why 100% colour match will rotate the C-motor in reverse without using the reverse pin?"

it is very simple.

condition onethe colors match. don't use the pin and the controller moves the motor forward.
condition twothe colors match. use the pin and the logic inside the controller changes and moves the motor Bacward.

its a very simple concept really. they have used it on cars for decades. some controllers can also do it. it is a very useful featurre on Cargo Trikes with a front wheel motor. usually you drive forwards. once in a while it is useful to backup, so you just flip the switch.

the issue here is that on the old V1 analog controller the motor would run the same maximum speed whether in forward or in reverse. this was convenient for some people who needed the motor to always run in reverse, you just flip the switch. now on the new digital controller someone apparently decided to IMPROVE it by limiting the speed in reverse to a lower value. this is fine if you just need it to occasionally back up. not good for this guy who need to run his motor backwards all of the time. he has to figure out the phase wiring sequence so that the motor will run in reverse.

this gent had been using the older V1 controller (which has a reverse key/switch on the side) until now. he was expecting that the new V2 controller that he just purchased would work the same. it does not. since he is using the motor in a non-standard way he needs to customize the wiring to work for his circumstance.

rick





rick

 

[The7]

condition one - the colors match. don't use the pin and the controller moves the motor forward.
condition two - the colors match. use the pin and the logic inside the controller changes and moves the motor Bacward.

now on the new digital controller someone apparently decided to IMPROVE it by limiting the speed in reverse to a lower value.
rick

I would totaly concur with you for both conditions.

CONDITION THREE: there is at least one optimum conbination for forward and at least one for reverse if the reverse pin is not used.

Now it seems that this gent tries to drive his trike forward with CONDITION TWO.
Doing so, his trike forward speed is only 40%.

Your guess that there is such an "IMPROVEMENT" in V2.
Could anyone confirm if there is such an IMPROVEMENT in V2?

 

[solarbbq2003]

just doing some tests with v2 on bmc motor, got it running at 2,389rpm on 48v cobalt oxide lithiums ( 57.2volts no load)
does that put it over the critical frequency? or need to go to higher voltage? the 2,389rpm is the rpm of the magnet rotor.

 

[solarbbq2003]

not sure if this video link will work, but did a quick vid on mobile phone of v2 test with bmc, orange meter shows volts was 56.5v during test, digital tacho at bottom shows rpm, v2 board has 4110fets.........hope this is above critical freq
http://mywebsite.bigpond.com/islandearth/v2bmc/v2mbmc.3gp

 

[rkosiorek]

Hi Brett,

how's the weather down under?

sorry but your link does not work.

rick

 

[Herrsprocket]

Hi Brett,
Vid worked ok for me! I could make out the volt reading, and the tach. Was that the 500 watter 320 rpm version on the bench?

Tom

 

[rkosiorek]

Hi again brett,

neede to download the right codec to view the file.

as long as you have it on the bench, hopefully it is still on the bench. could you ground the DSP pin and see what the RPM is in reverse?

rick

 

[The7]

just doing some tests with v2 on bmc motor, got it running at 2,389rpm on 48v cobalt oxide lithiums ( 57.2volts no load)
does that put it over the critical frequency? or need to go to higher voltage? the 2,389rpm is the rpm of the magnet rotor.

BMC has 16 pole-pairs (32 magnetic poles).
At 2389 rpm , frequency of phase voltage = 2389 /60 x 16 = 637 Hz

This shows that V2 does not have the critical frequency of 325 Hz as Shenzhen controller.

 

[The7]

Hi again brett,

neede to download the right codec to view the file.

as long as you have it on the bench, hopefully it is still on the bench. could you ground the DSP pin and see what the RPM is in reverse?

rick

You could use realplayer to view his 3gp file.

The reverse of V2 is supposed for reversing C-motors. It may not work for BMC/PUMA motor!?

 

[fechter]

Good testing Brett.

Apparently the v.2 controller has a much higher critical frequency.

The reverse jumper will not work properly with a BMC motor. It will go backward, but the timing will be way off and it will draw excessive current.
The only way to reverse a BMC motor's rotation is by rewiring. This has been tested with many different controllers.

 

[solarbbq2003]

still hooked up will check dsp later on, the v2 has same issue as ecrazyman controller, crystalyte have them set on the lower frequency ( I think!) just couldn't remember what rpm was the critical point where they go haywire, I got someone in china to adjust to the higher frequency, will have to work backwards try figure out how they did it, guessing its going to be input voltage to the chip ( or similar) but there is some way you can change freq it runs on ( might even be able to overclock it) same as a computer processor, hoping the guru out there will work out how its done, will be alot quicker than me working backwards to find it out. i'm a bit like a monkey on a typewriter, ocasionally something accidentally makes sense! this motor using for testing has 0.9mm dia windings, it could be 500watt version if they have same dia windings, the other one I have here is thinner wire and two strand type windings, it would be the 250-350watt motor, but I think critical frequency would be same on both having same number of poles.

 

[solarbbq2003]

have to point out this controller has been adjusted, not set the same as comes standard from crystalyte, I dont have a stock crystalyte controller handy to test.

 

[solarbbq2003]

if my calcs are correct 2,389rpm with 5:1 reduction gearbox in 26" rim would give 79km/hr, i'll try increasing voltage later on see if can find at what rpm it goes haywire, person who adjusted this controller mentioned 3,300rpm as max, but very hard to get info via translator on how it was adjusted for higher rpm, pretty much impossible.

 

[docnjoj]

Hey Brett! Who wants to go 50 mph on an Ebike?
otherDoc

 

[The7]

if my calcs are correct 2,389rpm with 5:1 reduction gearbox in 26" rim would give 79km/hr, i'll try increasing voltage later on see if can find at what rpm it goes haywire, person who adjusted this controller mentioned 3,300rpm as max, but very hard to get info via translator on how it was adjusted for higher rpm, pretty much impossible.

If it reaches 3300rpm, the phase frequency would be 880 Hz which is a pretty high magnetising frequency for motors with iron core. At such high magnetising frequency, the power loss due to iron core would be excessive.

Please note that Kelly claims that their controllers have an operating frequency up to 500Hz.