Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

[Sattva Ram]

I tried that. If I set 0 the controller doesnt even spin the wheel.

300A? What do you use EM200?

I have a 138 90H for my other project. I'm kinda afraid to buy a votol or far driver controller after this problem with the EM30. Is your FW efficient with the mid drive? I almost burned my small hub motor on my bicycle yesterday because of this stupid FW. I dunno maybe the winding got burned already I gotta take it apart and see...The problem with the 138 90 is that if you dont use FW then it's waay too slow at 72volts. So you gotta have some extra rpm but I really got afraid of the FW after this ordeal. Not that I have too much of a choice making a 144v pack is the only option but that's a lotta work and all I have is kelly for 144 and who knows whether that's any good I dont even understand kelly's power ratings. Also where the heck do I get 40S bms? So I desperately need those extra rpms for my 138 with my 72v pack and up until this point I trusted FW that it would solve the RPM problem but I'm not so sure now...

(Well maybe FW works better with mid motor after all. Anyway I dont want flux weak to come anywhere near my bicycle's hub motor after this...I just dont friggin know how to shut it off. It's as if it was intrinsic to the controller just always wanting to FW.)

 

[Sattva Ram]

Your overvoltage is set to 97. What is you pack?

 

[Sattva Ram]

I dont even use sport mode yet if I set 0 FW in sport mode the controller stops working. I just dont get this controller tbh...

 

[j bjork]

I tried that. If I set 0 the controller doesnt even spin the wheel.

300A? What do you use EM200?

Do you have sw 2.32 hw 1.13 ?
I got the impression that you did, but it seems you only quoted one who had.

Otherwise I dont know how it works on your controller, but barecuda have made some excellent posts about the newer version.

No, I have EM150
I only use sport, so it is those settings that are active :wink:

I run 22s that I charge to 90v.
Not sure why i have 97v overvoltage or if I still have that setting..
It might be from chasing some annoying cutouts

 

[dominik h]

I tried that. If I set 0 the controller doesnt even spin the wheel.

With setting 0 , the votol does not turn the motor. You have to set a value. I would start with a low value (300 for example)

 

[BareKuda]

I tried that. If I set 0 the controller doesnt even spin the wheel.

Ok, i have the file open.

Can you remind me which motor you are using? 11 pole pairs is pretty low for a direct drive hub motor that can pair with a EM-30. Normally those huge motors have fewer poles so they can run at higher rpm.

I see you have nothing for ser for speed selection, only sport mode in port settings, but in the programming you tell it to start on speed 2. Do you have sport mode hot wired or a switch to turn it on and off?

You have single wire in port settings and hall speedometer in the settings. These both need to match each other and your display, which needs YXT/Hall for either to work. And for many display default used phase signal not hall/YXT, but some have a wire or a solder point for a wire that supports YXT (single wire) and hall.

Your port settings have low brake and high brake. But your program setting say to use low brake.

You have “speed limited enable” box checked but normally thats left unchecked (unless its for a 3 year old.) lol

You have it set for 60v but say you need 72V to make it run fast.

So you have everything so screwed up we really need to start from square one.

If you aren’t absolutely sure how many pole pairs there are then use the method explained here to find 100% accurate without a doubt pole pairs:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/...3988&p=1687292&hilit=Find+Pole+pairs#p1687292

Set flux weakening to 0, but but leave current PID loop settings at 300 and 3000 as shown, later you will need to turn those to make the motor run smooth under load. The 300 can be set 100-1200 and the 3000 can be set up to about 9000. (For my motor 500 and 7000 is what make the motor run best under load)


After running like this without flux weakening and correct pole pairs set, the motor will run at its base RPM. You can set that base RPM in the HDC lowest speed to replace the 1200 set previously to unrestrict it.

Of pole pairs are wrong, Such as setting 11 instead of 22, the controller will report 1/2 true RPM on the display and all the motor control algorithms in the STM microprocessors will be given the wrong information as it transitions through control modes.

My motor is 500W, so i keep in mind that 9 amps is all it should really use continuous. For steady cruise i do allow 12a since it has good airflow cooling. But my 30A settings are only for bursts of about 30 seconds.

Your controller is set for 30a sport mode (which is the one it uses), so thats 2000W with a 60a battery. If your motor is rated at 2000W it shouldn’t get hot but if its rated for 500W it will get hot at 4X rated current.

When i tested my pole pairs i left the 6a current to it for 30 seconds the first time and those two phase wires got too hot to touch. Thats why the process states just touch it for a second till it jumps to a new pole pair and disconnect.

But it shows how even a small current without any off period or sine wave ramp up and down can overheat things.

My motor cannot continuously run at even base speed (650 rpm) because thats 2000W. This is why i have FW set to 0 and my speeds set for 20,30 and 40 km/h. It wants to run 45 if i give it the current but thats too much for this motor.

 

[BareKuda]

I tried that. If I set 0 the controller doesnt even spin the wheel.

With setting 0 , the votol does not turn the motor. You have to set a value. I would start with a low value (300 for example)

You are talking about the Current PI loop KI value (box to the right of flux weakening), which cant be set to 0, must be set 100-1200.

The flux weakening (box on the left under sport mode) can be set to 0 and the motor will run just fine up to its base speed. These are my current settings:



Somewhere along the way the basic program written was lazily modified to change different parameters without changing the user interface to be logical. Almost nothing in the sport mode box pertains to sport mode. The current is used in all areas, not busbar current. The FW value used anytime the motor goes above base RPM. The Current loop PI KI value is uses in all modes for the current control loop.

I had my KP value set at 0 thinking it was flux weakening and that required my KI setting to be so high to get away from the “rumble groove” sound but then it went into a over working noise. Once i set KP to 7000 it let me set KI down to 500 and my resonance at 100 rpm dropped to about 10% of what it was when KP was set to zero,

We know some of these controllers, HW, SW, FW versions the fields mean different things. I suspect as STM chips updated some lazy programmer just used existing fields for different things instead of making a a new GUI or making the label change as the hardware changed.

The first week you want to throw the $30 Votol EM-30s out a window but after learning what it can do compared to a generic locked $20 Chinese controller you are replacing its really amazing what it can do.

My original controller was dead silent at all speeds, while the Votol has a little resonance at 100 RPM. But the orioles controller throttle response was erratic with no way to program speed or torque. So the Votol gave me full control of speed and Torque for all 3 speeds.

The Votol also gave me YXT which my $20 display supports and gives me extra data such as gear selection, eABS (regen), motor fault, and a few others.

The Votol gave me regen which i can set to match my battery type and capacity. Right now 25% is good. Thats about 7 amp, which is the max current for charging my batteries. Its also matching the 500w motor. If i upgrade the motor and battery i can use higher regen.

The votol let me choose between high and low brake. My ebike used high brake so simple swap.

The votol will let me add cruise control and reverse if I just add a button or swtich and run wires. Not really needed for my little scooter but its there.

You have a motorcyclist with a side stand safety cutter switch? No problem, Votol has a wire for that.

You have standard alarm/remote start for your ebike? Votol supports it too.

You building a scooter for your kid but want to limit its speed to suit his riding experience? No problem. Lol

I would definitely buy this controller or any higher power votol that uses the same parameters as this one. Not the ones that don't give you torque control. Thats probably #1 value setting.

 

[Sattva Ram]

It's an 11PP bionx motor. There sure isnt a problem with my PP settings.

Okay I try what you suggested. My problem is tho why the heck does tweaking sport mode change anything when I dont even use sport mode? Or am I? Is it in sport mode by default? I didnt touch no port settings other than the low brake we discussed last time. This is how the controller came. So it seems that it's always in sport mode that's why it only reacts to changes if I do it in sport mode and that's why it doesnt do anything if I try to make 3 speed work. (Anyway I dont need 3 speed option it can always be in sport mode by me.) I dont have no display so I guesss the speedo thing is not a problem. Low brake seems to work now. Should I deactivate high brake?

Well if your motor got hot to the touch at 6 amps then there's something seriously wrong with this controller. I hooked up a small 18 amp 48v controller that I shunted to 24Amps did some test runs just to see how a proper generic controller heats the motor and the motor was cold as ice as it should be at such low power levels. This motor should handle 1500-2000 watts with temp sensor and vent holes easily I'm absolutely sure of it. I only use 48 volts now cause that's all I have now for testing the motor. (Stupid me didnt hook up the temp sensor for the test runs I thought that it's not necessary under such low performance scenarios and the stupid controller might just have fried my motor. ) So I'm absolutely sure that it wasnt the too much power that caused the motor's overheat but the inefficient FW. I did the test runs with a controller only 6 amps weaker and it was cold. Plus 6 amps simply doesnt cause so much overheat on a mildly undulating terrain...And you know what the funny thing is. I started up slightly uphill with the votol and the motor was quite okay. When I came back and went slightly downhill that's when it got hot. It's because uphill FW wasnt active but on flat and slight downhill FW started to work frying the motor with a shitload of extra amps...i guess it was using more amps downill than uphill what a bummer....

I wanna give the em30 at least 45 amps otherwise it's no good for me. I tried to tweak the amp setting in the busbar current and it didnt budge 30 is all it has even with 40 set in the busbar. Maybe I should have set it in sport mode. (Anyway the current is no problem worst case I do a shunt mod but this FW should be shut somehow.)

I love the votol too for this price its superior to anything out there but it doesnt seem to work properly. I'd really love to make it work tho.

 

[Sattva Ram]

I tried that. If I set 0 the controller doesnt even spin the wheel.

300A? What do you use EM200?

Do you have sw 2.32 hw 1.13 ?
I got the impression that you did, but it seems you only quoted one who had.

Otherwise I dont know how it works on your controller, but barecuda have made some excellent posts about the newer version.

No, I have EM150
I only use sport, so it is those settings that are active :wink:

I run 22s that I charge to 90v.
Not sure why i have 97v overvoltage or if I still have that setting..
It might be from chasing some annoying cutouts

Does regen work at 22S all the way to the top?

 

[Sattva Ram]

BTW the motor runs perfectly under no load with the votol, low current draw as it should be at least until FW kicks in and then it starts gobbling some amps. The motor spins 410 rpms at 48volts around 0.8 amps (tested with a generic controller) so that's the base speed and amp draw. And the votol spins it up to 650 which is quite a substantial FW. At that speed it already gobbles 2.3Amps no load which is quite a lot for this small low drag bionx motor i suppose...so it goes to show how inefficient the FW must be. Of course with the votol the bike was faster on the road than with the generic controller but the price of the extra speed was huge (a possible burnt motor...)

(What I am thinking is that it hates the low pole pair numbers..I tried to hook it up to the 138 90H too and it was absolutely dismal. I also have a yalu mid motor here tried with that one too and it was even worse...maybe it will never work with such low PP hub motor...anyway with HDC I can limit the rpm so FW doesnt kick in. But that's not a solution because as the battery depletes it would mean FW kicking in and always trying to reach the max rpm (maybe it would work with LFP but not with lion for sure). The only way to shut FW now is setting lower PP numbers. The controller actually works well with lower PP numbers only the tacho goes haywire and shows more than reality. The problem with this method is that the resolution is too low cause you can only change one PP value which is quite a lot of RPM. So even this method is shitty. I'd definitely need FW off properly...

 

[Sattva Ram]

Yeah wanting to throw it out the window already happened a few times for sure...But maybe it can be made work. If I could set it up properly shut the friggin FW give it 45amps with sufficient cooling then this controller would be the absolute best bang for the buck.

BTW doesnt it have motor temp sensor? Carrie said it doesnt but there's a white wire goin in at the hall connector. How do you even set temp in the program? There's no option for it...If it had motor temp sensor too that'd be rad AF

Anyway what are the respective percentages you set in the 3 speed mode? I suppose speed and current as the ratio of max speed and max current set isnt it?

 

[Sattva Ram]

I tried that. If I set 0 the controller doesnt even spin the wheel.

Ok, i have the file open.

Can you remind me which motor you are using? 11 pole pairs is pretty low for a direct drive hub motor that can pair with a EM-30. Normally those huge motors have fewer poles so they can run at higher rpm.

I see you have nothing for ser for speed selection, only sport mode in port settings, but in the programming you tell it to start on speed 2. Do you have sport mode hot wired or a switch to turn it on and off?

You have single wire in port settings and hall speedometer in the settings. These both need to match each other and your display, which needs YXT/Hall for either to work. And for many display default used phase signal not hall/YXT, but some have a wire or a solder point for a wire that supports YXT (single wire) and hall.

Your port settings have low brake and high brake. But your program setting say to use low brake.

You have “speed limited enable” box checked but normally thats left unchecked (unless its for a 3 year old.) lol

You have it set for 60v but say you need 72V to make it run fast.

So you have everything so screwed up we really need to start from square one.

If you aren’t absolutely sure how many pole pairs there are then use the method explained here to find 100% accurate without a doubt pole pairs:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/...3988&p=1687292&hilit=Find+Pole+pairs#p1687292

Set flux weakening to 0, but but leave current PID loop settings at 300 and 3000 as shown, later you will need to turn those to make the motor run smooth under load. The 300 can be set 100-1200 and the 3000 can be set up to about 9000. (For my motor 500 and 7000 is what make the motor run best under load)
2B785633-CCF4-4527-AC1B-7321706BAD64.jpeg

After running like this without flux weakening and correct pole pairs set, the motor will run at its base RPM. You can set that base RPM in the HDC lowest speed to replace the 1200 set previously to unrestrict it.

Of pole pairs are wrong, Such as setting 11 instead of 22, the controller will report 1/2 true RPM on the display and all the motor control algorithms in the STM microprocessors will be given the wrong information as it transitions through control modes.

My motor is 500W, so i keep in mind that 9 amps is all it should really use continuous. For steady cruise i do allow 12a since it has good airflow cooling. But my 30A settings are only for bursts of about 30 seconds.

Your controller is set for 30a sport mode (which is the one it uses), so thats 2000W with a 60a battery. If your motor is rated at 2000W it shouldn’t get hot but if its rated for 500W it will get hot at 4X rated current.

When i tested my pole pairs i left the 6a current to it for 30 seconds the first time and those two phase wires got too hot to touch. Thats why the process states just touch it for a second till it jumps to a new pole pair and disconnect.

But it shows how even a small current without any off period or sine wave ramp up and down can overheat things.

My motor cannot continuously run at even base speed (650 rpm) because thats 2000W. This is why i have FW set to 0 and my speeds set for 20,30 and 40 km/h. It wants to run 45 if i give it the current but thats too much for this motor.

I tried it. It doesnt work. It always uses FW no matter what i do. FW value at dead 0 and it's as if nothing happened...

If I set 6 PP i have 370 RPM which is too low. If I set 7 I have 430 which is too high so this doesnt work either. Can you send your config? I upload that as it is maybe that'll work.

 

[Sattva Ram]

I think it has to do with the low PP number. I think it will never work with this motor. It just always wants to rev it up no matter what...I'm starting to suspect that this isnt a generic controller. After all they sell it to their hub motor and they also stated that it might not work with certain motors. I think you are lucky cause you have a similar PP number as what it was designed for so it kinda works for you. But even you can be off by a few pole pairs. So even yours can use some unwanted flux weak to some extent only it's not visible cause you have your PP in the ballpark. Do you have another controller? Can you test it whether they have the exact same rpm? At least this is my guess...I just cant think of anything else...

 

[Sattva Ram]

23pp is the default. You have 22 so I think it kinda works...but my motor is just waaay too different so it's shit altogether...

 

[BareKuda]

I think it has to do with the low PP number. I think it will never work with this motor. It just always wants to rev it up no matter what...I'm starting to suspect that this isnt a generic controller. After all they sell it to their hub motor and they also stated that it might not work with certain motors. I think you are lucky cause you have a similar PP number as what it was designed for so it kinda works for you. But even you can be off by a few pole pairs. So even yours can use some unwanted flux weak to some extent only it's not visible cause you have your PP in the ballpark. Do you have another controller? Can you test it whether they have the exact same rpm? At least this is my guess...I just cant think of anything else...

I works with their 5 pole pair motors so 11 pole pairs isn't the problem.

Here is your config file with the changes i'm suggesting.
View attachment Config1(modified).ini

This is my configuration file to view but if you save it to your controller you will be more worse than you are now because i have all my ports and settings correct for my motor and my ebike features. i have 26 pole pairs, different hall angle shift, different current loop PI values. So if you save my file to your controller you would need to make a lot of changes right away:
View attachment Config500w26pp.ini

if you had flux weakening set to 0 and rebooted your controller then you might be seeing it enter FOC. at that time it should get super quiet and smooth if your phase and hall wires and shift are correct.

You need to play with the current loop settings and try to get both as low as possible which still gives smooth and quiet accelleration under load. Make small increase or decrease and reboot and retest under load. I can ride with my laptop connected and on the floorboard so its easy. if you cant its going to take much longer time to get it set right.

I suspect the Votol program has been modified by lazy programmers who just reused fields without renaming them in the GUI. So NOTHING in sport mode box is connected to sport mode feature. The amps you use here are what the speed settings use as percent current. Busbar amps does nothing.

FW and current KI are not tied to sport mode either.

My controller says its for 120 degree commutation angle, so if your bionics isnt then you might be getting some false positive when setting it up which shows up under load.

 

[Sattva Ram]

Shoot that's complicated... Okay I get to it see what can be done.

It's a total mess btw. Recently it goes backwards when connected to the computer only when I disconnect does it go normally. It also went to controller failure... I thought it's dead but after reboot it was okay. A lot of the time it doesnt even save the settings it's very buggy.

 

[Sattva Ram]

The problem is also that it will be used with a 20S pack in the final version. Right now I only use the 48v for testing so maybe I shouldnt even bother testing it with 48 volts...

 

[Sattva Ram]

Guess what man! I programmed exactly what you sent me and it was bad. The motor was "wobbling" rpm at the high levels. Then I started to write the parameters one by one as per your suggestion.
And then...

...then it came to that friggin HDC. I ticked the HDC and set 650. It caused nothing at all zero change. Then I unticked the HDC box but left the 650 in. The motor went CRAZY fast it almost frightened me. Then I realised that if I change the HDC number value with the HDC box UNTICKED! YES unticked!!!! then it sets the rpm of the motor. You can see that it was set to 290 in my initial config file I sent you but it was too much that's why it revved 600. I set it to 170 and now I have the perfect base rpm at 48 volts...

The only question is how it performs now on the street. Maybe it's still shit and boils my motor alive but so far it's a result...

 

[BareKuda]

Guess what man! I programmed exactly what you sent me and it was bad. The motor was "wobbling" rpm at the high levels. Then I started to write the parameters one by one as per your suggestion.
And then...

...then it came to that friggin HDC. I ticked the HDC and set 650. It caused nothing at all zero change. Then I unticked the HDC box but left the 650 in. The motor went CRAZY fast it almost frightened me. Then I realised that if I change the HDC number value with the HDC box UNTICKED! YES unticked!!!! then it sets the rpm of the motor. You can see that it was set to 290 in my initial config file I sent you but it was too much that's why it revved 600. I set it to 170 and now I have the perfect base rpm at 48 volts...

The only question is how it performs now on the street. Maybe it's still shit and boils my motor alive but so far it's a result...

Did you reboot between each setting change before testing? Some will respond without reboot, some wont.

The first file i sent was your file, with small modifications. From there you should tweek KI and KP values. Then set DHC to limit the speed to what your motor is strong enough for.

My 500w 26 pole pair motor is on a 10” wheel with a tire 15” O.D. 650 rpm is my base speed and works out to about 45 kpm. I assume your gutted Bionics motor is suppose to turn a wheel 26”-29” in diameter, so 300ish RPM would be about 45 km/hh. 170 RPM would be 25 km/h (15 mph).

The fact that it runs backwards sometimes might mean you have false positive pairing or its 60 degree motor using a 120 degree controller and gets confused.

Your port settings are all screwed up too, but if all you use is a throttle and ignition wire it will boot and operate, but no speed selection other that what you set at defaul (MID), at 100/100 which will give you 100% of the speed you set in HDC and 100% of the amps set in Sport mode section,

If your motor runs smooth unloaded but makes a rumble noise accelerating under load, it means your KI and KP values are wrong. You see my ebike needs high numbers, yours may need lower or higher than mine.

But you need to checl hall shift again and see if 90 or 60 or anything between -180 to +180 makes it run smooth in either direction. If you got a false positive and set hall shift for that it will act crazy.

You have cruise with lame home set in port settings but i dont know what lame home does. Lol.

If you look at my port settings you will see everything with a function set is the correct function and everything else is set to no function. My single wire speed matches my single wire port setting. My high brake port setting matches my Unchecked low brake box.

When i first set my controller the 3 speed switch didn't do anything until i checked HDC. Once again I think all these fields were reassigned without fixing the labels based on the controller HW and SW.

Buss bar does nothing. Set it to 0 and it still gives the current set in sport mode box (if 100% torque is set for that speed selection”.

At least battery voltage settings appear to work as advertised. Soft low voltage helps prevent hitting hard low voltage. Overvoltage sets the regen cutoff as well as not letting the controller boot.

The controllers error you see i got almost any time i changed port settings. Simple reboot clears it.

The reboot also helps you to see if the setting was accepted between every reboot requires reconnect the PC to the controller to see the stored values.

For the Current PI loop settings, one is for the GAIN (proportional change related to what the speed control loop asks for) and the others is INTEGRAL which lets current drift to the exact setpoint. If either are too high or too low the current control goes crazy and then speed control cant work smooth.

Unfortunately you need really special equipment to set that exactly correct so all we can do is adjust blindly in small changed until it runs best under all acceleration levels. The key is knowing its not flux weakening in this controller. Once again almost all fields are not labeled correctly. But that chinese app is as close as ive ever seen,

 

[Sattva Ram]

If I set 650 HDC it spins maybe 1200. So the HDC values are definitely not correct. I have to set like 170 to get the base 400 rpm at 48 volts. If I set 290 I get 600 rpm...So something is off with that...But how does it spin the motor faster if it's not flux weak? Willy nilly operation cannot do that I guess. However there's a hall and phase combination where it overspins with excessive amp draw. So i know that it's actually possible to overspin a motor without flux weak with the wrong hall/phase order but there's no way that this is the case here...Also there is no excessive amp draw at least no load but at load who knows...maybe that's why the motor got fried...is it possible that I am running bad hall/phase combo? :? But that would mean excessive amps no load too. So I drop this possibilty too...

I dont know what's this hall shift thing. It's a plain old 120 geometrical degree hall. What can be complicated about that? I think changing the hall from 120 definitely wont be a good thing the halls definitely are what they are that is 120 degrees there's no debating that...but I too thought about the controller having some hall issues and that's why it controls badly...but that's the controller's fault not the motor's for sure...

The 3 speed settings arent worth anything. They dont have any effect. The only effect I have is adjusting the sport mode...So it seems that it's in sport mode by default...

Anyway I need to test it on the road. But so far the no load tests are okay. It's where I want it to be. But it's night and frikkin cold here so tomorrow I do some real life tests. Temp sensor strictly hooked up this time...

 

[Sattva Ram]

I can confirm the 3 speed option only works with HDC on. I set the HDC to 460 and hooked up a lab power supply. 460 is the base rpm at 60 volts. Then I reduced the voltage to 30 but the RPM only dropped to 300 while it should have dropped to 230 so it seems to me that this controller always tries to rev higher than the voltage allows for. Also as I decreased the voltage strange noises started to come out from the motor. I dont know what could be done now. I'm getting sick and tired of this controller tbh. Maybe I file a dispute in paypal... I dont think anything can be done with this controller now.

Does your rpm decrease proportional to the voltage decrease?

What happens to yours if you set a higher HDC than the base rpm of the motor? Will it always spin at the RPM what you set in HDC? Or will it stop at the base rpm of the motor even if you set a higher HDC than the base rpm of the motor?

Mine always spins at whatever RPM I set in HDC. It just doesnt stop at the base rpm.

The first flux weak value has no effect on anything. It totally doesnt matter what value I give it.

My previous comment is kinda moot. There was some glitch or something something wrong with saving the parameters.

Anyway what happens if you untick the HDC? What RPM will the motor spin then? Is it the base rpm? Mine spins at 650 without HDC. Which is bonkers because it shouldnt at 48 volts

 

[Sattva Ram]

https://youtu.be/sWxTte4ssvU

Here's the rpm ramp down. You can see 10 volt decreased yet zero rpm change. Then around 50 volts it starts to get very wobbly and noisy the amps jump up and down too. And below 50 volts the rpm start to decrease. It stops at around 300Rpm when it should stop at 250. It seems that it just wants to rev higher than it should. I think it's everything but a smooth operation. At certain voltages it's just horribly noisy and jumpy. The amps dont seem to decrease too much with the voltage decrease either

HDC set to 510.

 

[BareKuda]

If I set 650 HDC it spins maybe 1200. So the HDC values are definitely not correct. I have to set like 170 to get the base 400 rpm at 48 volts. If I set 290 I get 600 rpm...So something is off with that...But how does it spin the motor faster if it's not flux weak? Willy nilly operation cannot do that I guess. However there's a hall and phase combination where it overspins with excessive amp draw. So i know that it's actually possible to overspin a motor without flux weak with the wrong hall/phase order but there's no way that this is the case here...Also there is no excessive amp draw at least no load but at load who knows...maybe that's why the motor got fried...is it possible that I am running bad hall/phase combo? :? But that would mean excessive amps no load too. So I drop this possibilty too...

Yes, i think there is a problem with your phase/hall pairing. If that motor has 120 degree commutations angle the Votol will work with it set for -60, 60, or 180 hall shift

I Don know what's this hall shift thing. It's a plain old 120 geometrical degree hall. What can be complicated about that? I think changing the hall from 120 definitely wont be a good thing the halls definitely are what they are that is 120 degrees there's no debating that...but I too thought about the controller having some hall issues and that's why it controls badly...but that's the controller's fault not the motor's for sure...

The “Hall shift” setting has absolutely nothing to to with 60 degrees or 120 degree hall sensor communication angles. The shall shift is simply a means to connect phase and hall wires in any order (normally matching colors), then sit at the company ant pair them. The hall shift replaced the step were you would manually move each hall wire over one slot.

In manual hall wire pairing you can only do 120 degree shifts become only 3 wires and 3 holes. Lol. The defaul hall shift in the votol is -60. Typically the hall shift will be +/-120 degrees from that. Which means either -180 (same as +180), -60, or +60.

Ive tested several shift angles and it seems to tolerate +/-30 derees from correct without complaining. At +/-60 it starts to complain because it’s halfway between to good settings. +/- 120 degrees and you definitely know it because it will be complaining very loudly.

Thats why I suggested you try more hall shifts to make sure you didn’t get false positive.

Your motor is very noisy. Once the controler goes into FOC mode it should be very smooth and quiet

The 3 speed settings arent worth anything. They dont have any effect. The only effect I have is adjusting the sport mode...So it seems that it's in sport mode by default...

The 3 speeds work fine. Your settings are wrong. I had the same problem. It absolutely wont work if HDC is left unchecked. It will act like no 3 speed switch connected. And aside from that you have no ports set for any type of speed switch, either the rocker or jog button. Also, you have low and mid set the same so once you fix the other two things you need to set something like:
50 60
75 80
100 100

That will give you 3 different speeds and torques, from there once everything else is working you can set the exact speed and torque limits. I set my low and mid torque to twice the amps needed for cruise, that allows for reasonable acceleration up to cruise.

Anyway I need to test it on the road. But so far the no load tests are okay. It's where I want it to be. But it's night and frikkin cold here so tomorrow I do some real life tests. Temp sensor strictly hooked up this time...

Hopefully it goes well especially if you find a better hall shift angle.

 

[BareKuda]

https://youtu.be/sWxTte4ssvU

Here's the rpm ramp down. You can see 10 volt decreased yet zero rpm change. Then around 50 volts it starts to get very wobbly and noisy the amps jump up and down too. And below 50 volts the rpm start to decrease. It stops at around 300Rpm when it should stop at 250. It seems that it just wants to rev higher than it should. I think it's everything but a smooth operation. At certain voltages it's just horribly noisy and jumpy. The amps dont seem to decrease too much with the voltage decrease either

HDC set to 510.

Are you sure soft low voltage is set to 0 for the test? It sounds the the controller is trying to correct for low volume by reducing power which at no load 1a is going to cycle.

If your soft low voltage is set below your test voltage maybe you can tweak KI and KP and see if the cycling stops.

Your sprag clutch is making some noise so i cant tell which is from the motor and which is from the sprocket clutch.

But i think 60 degree hall shift angle might fix many problems. -60, 60 or 180 is what working with the Votol normally

 

[Sattva Ram]

Meeh okay I still dont understand this hall shift thing but I'll try it out ASAP. (Actually I did start tweaking the hall shift but it friggin went into controller failure permanently and stopped working I thought the controller was dead it never did that before. It wasnt dead tho just needed a reboot. So I didnt dare to experiment with it any longer....but I guess it was just a coincidence. But as long as it worked it seemed fine. I think too that it's a hall thing now that's why the whole thing is bad. Also they sell it with -60 but the hub motor for which they sell it sure has a 120 degree regular hall arrangement so for a 120 degree normal motor -60 is the way to go. I still dont know why but who really cares if the controller works fine?)

Soft was 32 and hard was 30 volts during the test.

Setting HDC so the 3 speed works is logical. Cause if you dont set a speed then the controller cannot know what speed it is which it has to set the percentage of. However HDC seems like king. It determines the RPM no matter what the base RPM of the motor is. If you set a higher HDC than the base rpm it will force that rpm no matter what. Which is kinda bad cause how do you even determine base RPM with this controller? If I shut HDC i get like 650 rpm which is waay too much...