What's your top continuous (cruising) speed?

[LI-ghtcycle]

I am curious what people have been able to do on a commute, up hills and just joy riding, but something you could maintain for a day's ride, not just peak for seconds or minutes, but something that your motor could do on a long trip, so maybe this would be something of an average speed over a distance?

If possible, please include what type of motor, using what controller, voltage, & battery type.

Thanks!

 

[TheKraftyRhino]

21MPH for 13 miles with a 2 mile 3% grade hill a prity steep overpass ~1/8 mile and a nice little 1/4 mile ~12% grade on an aluminum frame beach cruiser with steel front fork.
Aotema Front hub and 20amp controller from Hightekbikes
12ah SLA x 4 for 48 volts.

Schwinn Meridian Same motor but high power controller set @ 60V 30amp 30MPH nonstop on ping LiFePo4 20AH. Same loop but can do it twice without a charge. Speed can max @ 36 but the trip I have done 2 laps I held it right @ 30.

 

[dogman dan]

Top sustainable speed on a long ride is entirely a matter of the equilibrium temperature of the motor at the given wattage and the given ambient temperature and humidity.

I did extensive testing of this in the worst possible scenario, 100+ F, less that 10% humidity. My results proved why they call it a "500 watt" motor, untill the marketing guys get ahold of it and call it a "1000 watt" motor.

In the worst of desert heat and low humidity, I found the brushless hubmotors able to sustain 500 watts for hours, and the motor temp would reach equilibrium at around 200 F. No damage was ever done to the motor at this temp, not even much browning of the windings. Often this will be a speed around 15-18 mph.

In these conditions, increasing the wattage by climbing a hill, or speeding up often results in reaching overtemp within the time period it takes to drain an 800 wh battery. Even on the worst days, I can usually ride an hour, and climb 1000 ft of vertical gain along the way without severely overtemping a motor using it at 800 watts. Obviously I may be using 1000-1200 watts while on the climb portion, that lasts about 2 of the 15 mile ride. So 20-25 mph for one hour is possible on even the hottest days, providied I'm not climbing really steep hills.

In nicer conditions, such as below 90F temp, I find that I reach equilibrium at higher wattage without overtemping. So then a cruising wattage of 800 or so is possible infinitely. That usually allows about 20-23 mph that could be kept up all day.

So you really can't just say, x watts is the max. Each days weather has it's own max. Once I get into days cooler than 80f, I don't bother to have the thermometer on the commuter bike anymore. But I would run a thermometer if I went for a ride in the mountians.

You can't really talk about max speed so much as max watts. The speed will be what that max watts will get you on that particualr slope of ride, or that particular wind condition. This is why for a long haul bike, you need a thermometer on the motor, and a wattmeter on the battery. Watching the interaction of the two, you can tell exactly when to back off the throttle.

Windings matter on the motors too. Everything I just said applies to motors wound to go 20-25 mph on a 36v battery. On a hill, slower windings will run a bit cooler, faster winding a bit hotter. For a long haul bike, I'd choose an 8x8 vs a 9x7. For a bike to cross the rockies, a 6x10 or 5305.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Thanks KR & DM,

DM, what are your thoughts for a more compact "over square" hub motor that might have similar characteristics to the 8 x 8 9C? Would perhaps any of the X-Light 400 series motors be in the same league as far as over-all performance and heat dissipation ability?

Also, as this will be mounted above the rear wheel in a enclosure, what are your thoughts on the best way to cool it? I am guessing ventilation the motor it's self is mandatory, and perhaps I could attach fins/blades to the outside case.

I want to take advantage of the heat that it will generate, and have an enclosure that I can have more or less ventilation, and possibly use this to dry out clothing while on the road. Maybe this is asking for trouble, I could also have a fan and use active cooling in the really hot places, maybe have a way to open that enclosure altogether when needed.

 

[SamTexas]

This is on a kid scooter (no pedal) with 12.5 in wheels. The stock scooter motor is a brushed 350W chain connected to the rear wheel and runs on 36V. I added one battery to make it 48V, no change to the controller. Total weight 210lbs (scooter 70, rider 140).

Relatively flat road, a few stop signs, a few traffic lights.
48V, 17.5mph avg, 6.55 miles range, top speed 21.5mph
Total energy 148wh
==> 22.6wh/mi, 395 watts avg

 

[amberwolf]

Since I'm limited legally to 20MPH, that's my continouous regular road speed. But I have tested on private property here and there, such as really big parking lots, and found that I can cruise at 23-24MPH, depending on wind, with CrazyBike2. No pedalling.

I don't recall the wattage at speed, but that's using the 9C 2807 26" with generic 12FET controller (repaired with shunts and caps from other things), powered by the 13Ah 48V NiMH pack, in it's top 25% SOC. Speed drops closer to 20 around 50% SOC, IIRC.

In the mild weather we've been having since I got the 9C on CB2, it stays pretty cool, given that almost all of it is on the flats.

 

[dogman dan]

Smaller diameter motors do heat up a bit faster than larger ones, like the 9continent. The 9c simply has a larger surface area. The heat generated inside is similar. It's not a huge difference with motors of similar winding though, the 90 degree rule still applies. Below 90F , you can run a bit more watts continuous.

I'd just let wind dry the clothes, and keep the motor as ventilated as possible.

 

[AussieJester]

The longer hill rides i have been on the average speed at the end was ~45km/hr for ~23km distance could of upped that more still had just under 50% charge in the pack....45km is the sweet spot on my bike, its under geared alot to tackle the hilly terrain where i live and tow my wheelchair along with my beefcakeness sitting on it...

KiM

 

[Kingfish]

Commuting using P1 on near-level road near sea level; actually Redmond is at 43 feet above sea level and Issaquah is 108 feet; regardless I’m right off Lake Samm so will call it good at say 70 feet. It’s an 11-mile trek, 9 miles of which I can do at WOT if I hit the signals right. There is one small < 100-foot hill climb in the middle of the trip, though normally does not require down-shift to complete unless there is a headwind.

I run 15S6P LiPo (HobbyKing FlightMax 5S 15C/2C) charged to 63V hot, travelling consistently at 34 mph without a break. CA reports 28 mph as the trip average consistently (includes stop-&-go getting out of town). The eBike is listed in my sig as P1; presently I have the Marathon Winter studded tires mounted.

Motor is a 2009 vintage 9C 2806 _unmodified_. Conversely the Controller is a highly modified eBikes.ca 25A 6x IRLB4030 Infineon XC846: Shunt, Caps, R1, R12, firmware, 10-AWG rails, 10-AWG power/phase wiring … I think it is my original controller that just keeps on tickin’. Wiring to/from batteries and motor are also 10-AWG.

Last summer I averaged 28 mph cross-country with the same setup but different frame (P0). Next summer I hope to beat that by 5 mph.

<cue Rocky theme song...> :lol:
In training every day, KF

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Very kewl! Some really good info here, thanks all!

I am coming to the conclusion that the best average speed for a bicycle where I ride (lots of commuting on busy roads with bike lane as part of the shoulder) that lower speeds make the most sense because I am NOT going to win if soccer mom cuts me off, and if I am only going 15 - 20MPH, I have enough time to stop.

I almost got left-crossed by an old biddy who suddenly decided to cut 2 lanes of traffic off and head into the local "Joann's Fabrics" store, must have been a "blue light special" going on and she didn't want to miss all the good stuff! :lol:

Fortunately she DID see me, but mis-judged my speed by about 10MPH (ok I was having a little much fun blasting off from the stop light probably going 25MPH at this point) and if she hadn't seen me, I'm sure I wouldn't be typing this right now.

I'm going to shoot for a maximum speed of about 18 - 20, and gear it to climb steep hills at 15MPH with the Nuvinci at 1 to 1 so then I can drop it down or take it up on smaller hills.

I have been really impressed at my own re-acquaintance with the 9 x 7, it's not really an ideal hill climber, but at 45V of 25 - 50C Nanotech LiPo, it's amazingly efficient, I think I averaged close to 18W per mile today on a 50 mile trip, average speed was about 17MPH, it was amazing how efficient it ran even with a 10 - 15MPH headwind all the way to the shop to get my Nuvinci built (I will be picking it up tomorrow!! ).

I used 7 AH's of my 12 AH pack, (8AH is about as deep as I would want to go for this pack to keep the LiPo's happy and getting many cycles) I'm past the 10 charge cycle break-in, so I should see some good performance I think as far as capacity goes.

I'm thinking pretty hard about a 8 x 8 9C as my "monkey" motor. Had a nice chat with an older Lady at Clever Cycles today, and she warned me not to copy the "Stoke Monkey" too closely since they just renewed the patent (good naturedly :wink: ) but she said she's more of the riding than gear-head type.

I will be using this information to help me build my first Pack-E-Bike thanks!

 

[Mark_A_W]

Steady cruising speed = 55km/h at 1400w, motor will do this all day long....well for about 24 minutes actually, then the battery is flat.

That gives me an average speed just over 40, with all the pesky traffic and stops and starts.

 

[Mark_A_W]

city goes.

I'm thinking pretty hard about a 8 x 8 9C as my "monkey" motor. Had a nice chat with an older Lady at Clever Cycles today, and she warned me not to copy the "Stoke Monkey" too closely since they just renewed the patent (good naturedly :wink: ) but she said she's more of the riding than gear-head type.

She can say all she likes, even if you copy it EXACTLY they can't do a thing about it unless you try and sell it.

 

[Miles]

She can say all she likes, even if you copy it EXACTLY they can't do a thing about it unless you try and sell it.

They certainly can, if they wanted to.

 

[neptronix]

15-18mph with the throttle only, 19mph with pedaling adding torque to help the motor along.
I can do this for about 10 miles and use 5ah on my dinky 250w kit.

The tortoise wins the race, right? well unless my competition has nanotech batteries that can be charged in 15 minutes.. dangit

 

[Mark_A_W]

She can say all she likes, even if you copy it EXACTLY they can't do a thing about it unless you try and sell it.

They certainly can, if they wanted to.

Depends on the country.

Even in the US I don't think anyone ever gets done over for patent infringement for personal use.

http://www.iusmentis.com/patents/crashcourse/rights/


Patents are a total crock. I have my name on a few, and I think they are stupid - the chinese will copy you anyway. Pointless waste of money.

 

[Miles]

Even in the US I don't think anyone ever gets done over for patent infringement for personal use.

Yes, it seems unlikely that there would be any consequences. There is no "personal use" exception in US patent law, though, so Stokemonkey could take action, if they wanted to.

 

[dogman dan]

Does stokemonkey use a nuvinci hub? Sounds to me like he's not copying it exactly. Plus the personal use thing. Surely they don't have everything about a chain drive patented.

 

[Miles]

Here's the Stokemonkey patent: http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=US&NR=7261175&KC=&FT=E You can see what's covered in the Claims section.

 

[chrisvw]

My 11 mile commute (each way) - mostly flat - always pedaling. 2/3 bike trails, 1/3 bike path (on road). I typically average 20MPH. I go faster, but practical safety on the bike trails with pedestrian traffic keeps the speed down.

My practical maximum speed is 30MPH as that's my top gear maximum pedaling speed. I could never sustain that for more than 20 minutes. Just a matter of principle (and battery conservation) that I most always pedal.

 

[John in CR]

I am curious what people have been able to do on a commute, up hills and just joy riding, but something you could maintain for a day's ride, not just peak for seconds or minutes, but something that your motor could do on a long trip, so maybe this would be something of an average speed over a distance?

If possible, please include what type of motor, using what controller, voltage, & battery type.

Thanks!

Average speed over distance doesn't work for me, because I'm typically limited in speed by the speed limit and/or road conditions or traffic, not by the bike. Only on the highway do I hit the limits, and I only get on the highway about once a week. Most of the sections near my house are 80kph speed limit (50mph) and I can maintain that even up very slight grades and into a headwind, which is typical heading toward town. My absolute limit with my current pack (20s10p Konion VTs from Bosch packs in parallel with 20s8p Konion V cells from Makita packs), in this 20" wheel, flat road and no wind, is right at 60mph with voltage sagging to 74-75V on a fairly fresh SOC. The motor is a hub motor made for some electric motorcycles with a 1200W rating, and the stock controller is 60V20A, but they aren't available retail.

With the 20A limit on the factory controller it was pretty lame in acceleration, though I still hit 50mph using 17s Konion packs, so I upped the voltage and now run 81V fresh off the charger and a 70A battery side current limit with my Lyen 24 FET controller. I can run WOT for as long as my battery will last, and with a range extender pack in the trunk I've ridden 50/55mph continuous both ways on a 40 mile round trip.

When I stop immediately after a high speed highway run, the motor and controller are barely warm, so I know they aren't stressed. Uphill grades are the real concern. I have 2 hills near my house that are long enough to give me a good gauge. One is about a mile of grade ranging from 7-9% and the other is about a mile and a half of near constant 6-7%. The longer one is curvy and the curves limit my max speed, because the bike pushes above 45mph. Up the other I'm able to maintain 33-36mph through the steepest section depending on how strong the headwind is. The motor gets what I would classify as quite warm. If I get slowed by traffic up these ascents to speeds 25-30, then the motor gets quite hot. 25 is my comfort limit, and if traffic slows me to slower than that for more than a short distance, then I will pull over and wait. I'm not going to fry and controller and or motor by going to slow up a hill with a hub motor. As long as I can maintain 25mph, then I'm comfortable to do a continuous climb as long as there isn't a tail wind matching my speed so the motor and controller wouldn't get much air flow over them.

Note this is my non-ventilated daily rider, and at my old house I had two 25% grade hills to deal with, and bogging a motor down to quite low speeds can overheat them in less than 20 seconds, so know your hills and feel your motors often to better understand their limits.

John

 

[SamTexas]

Average speed over distance doesn't work for me, because I'm typically limited in speed by the speed limit and/or road conditions or traffic, not by the bike. Only on the highway do I hit the limits, and I only get on the highway about once a week. Most of the sections near my house are 80kph speed limit (50mph) and I can maintain that even up very slight grades and into a headwind, which is typical heading toward town. My absolute limit with my current pack (20s10p Konion VTs from Bosch packs in parallel with 20s8p Konion V cells from Makita packs), in this 20" wheel, flat road and no wind, is right at 60mph with voltage sagging to 74-75V on a fairly fresh SOC. The motor is a hub motor made for some electric motorcycles with a 1200W rating, and the stock controller is 60V20A, but they aren't available retail.
John

Wow! I have a few questions, if you don't mind.

- What does CR in "John in CR" stand for? Costa Rica?
- If you like speed and power that much, why are you limiting yourself to bicycles? Is it because you could not stand the pollution of an ICE? If not, wouldn't a sport bike serve you better? Even a puny Ninja 250 would run circles around your ebikes, and most likely cost less too.

Just curious.
Sam

 

[MikeFairbanks]

My setup: 36 volt SLA, 9c motor. It goes about 20 for 20. It's all groovy.

 

[John in CR]

- If you like speed and power that much, why are you limiting yourself to bicycles? Is it because you could not stand the pollution of an ICE? If not, wouldn't a sport bike serve you better? Even a puny Ninja 250 would run circles around your ebikes, and most likely cost less too.

Just curious.
Sam

It's not that I like speed, but that I dislike puttering around at pedal speed. I rode a motorcycle daily for almost a decade and didn't ride any faster than I do now. Actually, my ebike squeezes through congested traffic better than anything but a light dirtbike, so I ride my ebike faster on average. Plus it's virtually silent with by far the loudest noise being my tires, till I get up past about 35 where wind noise takes over. Zipping around in near silence and while being able to hear the world around you is truly unique, and more than anything else, it's the wind noise that keeps me around that 35mph cruising speed.

John, yes in Costa Rica, at least until the climate changes enough for another location on the planet to have the best climate in the world.

 

[miuan]

Yeah as John explained, there's much more to riding an e-bike vs. moto. I've been learning to harvest its benefits ever since I'd started to use it 1 year ago. You can store your bike inside a building, take it upstairs.. and if you happen to crash, you and your victims are much safer. You'll visit places/people you'd rarely do on a moto or a car, for whatever reason (parking, access, padestrian zones, motor noise etc). You can even bomb your way to the city for a late pub crawl, and then just pedal back home slowly on safe paths/roads if you're no longer sober/brave enough. The list goes on.. it's only up to your creativity.
My twin 2807 9C @ 15S lipo will sustain 55-62kph on flats and 40-55kph on uphills, just about anything you need in the city. The twin hubs run cool and maintain higher torque at speed so you wont slow down as much up the hill.

 

[Ykick]

Just checked cycle computer and for the last 100 miles = 15.47mph average. Top speed is around 30MPH flat.