Which Hub motor and controller for a 96v build?

[Chalo]

A very reliable setup for a pedicab would be some big, heavy direct drive hub motors like the 55h 5kw from mxus or qs.
Have one on each wheel

That's not really how pedicabs work. They have rear wheels attached to half axles that are parts of a differential gear. You drive the differential casing to drive the rear wheels. You could do it another way, but that would be likely to take away the "pedi" quality.

Hub motors in the front wheel are usually wound much too fast for pedicab use, so they get lugged down and overheated more frequently than a dedicated system's motor. Often they're chosen by owners who are trying to do it on the cheap, so they're usually not models with appropriate kV for the job. Also, the narrowly spaced flanges on most hub motors don't easily build up into wheels that can tolerate pedicab style side loading. But when done right, they work okay enough.

Using a hub motor with chain reduction to the differential is something that a few peddicabbers do, but it has its own tradeoffs. Thermally, hubs aren't as effective as shafted motors, and you don't have as many gear ratio options for a 1.37" thread or a 44mm disc rotor pattern as you do for a 20mm shaft. But they're quieter and in some ways easier to implement, because they only need something approximating bicycle dropouts for mounting. It certainly can be done satisfactorily.

 

[Chalo]

I designed that motor system.

No you did not.

Not the motor-- the system that has the motor as a component. I understand that you don't appreciate the difference because you haven't ever designed or constructed or repaired or assembled or specified or reconfigured any of this stuff.

I'm tired of calling you out on your ignorance and inexperience when you make proclamations. You're going into the bozo bucket. Others will figure it out for themselves.

 

[calab]

I am starting to see, looking at pictures of Austin pedicabs
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9c/f2/4b/9cf24b9ac4f76d2b8ea4135ca2097275.jpg
4 people pedi cab - take a look at the rear wheels, 2 on each side, 4 wheels on the back, like a dually pedicab, take a peek at the crank a little something something....electrons
https://www.pedicab.com/wp-content/uploads/limo-pedicab-rides-1024x901.jpg


https://www.pedicab.com/pedicabs/the-boardwalk-pedicab/
Nice clear picture, is that what Austin is using Mainstreet Pedicabs or is it a bunch of different pedicabs from multiple pedicab operators?
I see a crank to rear derailleur with tensioner to multi-speed gears to jack-shafted gear to ?????? rear axle driving both wheels?

Boardwalk Pedicab™ Specs
msrp $4,750
size 110″ by 50″
weight 175 lbs.

 

[Chalo]

Nice clear picture, is that what Austin is using Mainstreet Pedicabs or is it a bunch of different pedicabs from multiple pedicab operators?
I see a crank to rear derailleur with tensioner to multi-speed gears to jack-shafted gear to ?????? rear axle driving both wheels?

There's always a jackshaft that has a multi-speed freewheel on it, and an output sprocket to the differential housing. On Main Street trikes, it's basically a bicycle hub. Both rear wheels are driven by axle shafts that are either 1" or 25mm in diameter.

Lots of different trikes here. Local ordinance limits working pedicabs to 3 passengers maximum (though in practice that's a limit on seats and not passengers). Probably Main Street Classics and Broadways are the most common, followed by Chinese facsimiles of Cycles Maximus trikes. After that is a mix of Tipke, Precision, genuine Cycles Maximus, Main Street Boardwalks, and Chinese Main Street clones.

Folks who run at Circuit Of The Americas (outside the city) or travel to music festivals and major league football games are the ones who have 6 passenger trikes.

The Main Street Limo is almost certainly the worst designed 6-top. The dual rear wheels require axles that overhang so far, when the trike is loaded to capacity, axle flex lifts the outer two wheels off the surface. The frame is based on a 2 passenger cab that had suspension for the passenger area, but the Limo triples the payload and takes away the suspension (which was for the frame's benefit as much as for the passengers).

The second worst two-bench cabs are the super heavy, sloppily constructed 5 passenger trikes from San Diego. They have a characteristic but not standardized design.

One popular 6 passenger trike design is the back-to-back trike originally from Seattle but now widely imitated. It uses two benches that share one backrest, permanently welded onto a Main Street Classic frame. They're pretty good at breaking themselves, but the design has been refined to a point it's fairly functional.

Precision Pedicabs 6 passenger trikes have a removable front bench, so they can legally run for hire in Austin.

 

[gobi]

Pedicabs are fun, but other than downtownish zones with special easement and parking, they are impractical??


Controller for QS 212 35H:

Not sure why but I just picked up rear hub motor QS 212 3H, which is 1200w (Thanks to someone here )

Now for the controller,
this was suggested
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32607625571.html

but how about this one? it has Bluetooth, and price is close.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002366937624.html


Maintenance:
Gotcha, I will open ONE and inspect it and post pics and you guys assess it. Looking at the tires, they have NEARLY NO wear. (FYI)

Grease: So I need a special Mobil 1 grease,
what is the name of the grease again pls?

 

[999zip999]

No reason to open as ez to tear wire jacket. So don't open unless needed. Plus the bearing are very hard to get grease into and maybe sealed to some extent.

 

[E-HP]

Maintenance:
Gotcha, I will open ONE and inspect it and post pics and you guys assess it. Looking at the tires, they have NEARLY NO wear. (FYI)

Grease: So I need a special Mobil 1 grease,
what is the name of the grease again pls?

Doesn't seem like there's a logical reason for opening up the motor, but if you're doing it to advance the knowledge of the forum, then go for it! :thumb:

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

I designed that motor system.

No you did not.

Not the motor-- the system that has the motor as a component. I understand that you don't appreciate the difference because you haven't ever designed or constructed or repaired or assembled or specified or reconfigured any of this stuff.

Nothing about the system I see below would alleviate the need for prevatative maintenance of the planetary gear set:

https://precisionpedicab.com/products/complete-bolt-on-cyclone-motor-system-version-3-950

Even an all steel gear Cyclone needs lubrication and avoiding preventative maintenance on an all steel gear motor could result in some very expensive repairs (due to the extra heat created by the inefficiency of the wearing and dirty (but not breaking) steel gears).

P.S. In hopes that your trash advice doesn't affect too many people here on this forum below is yet another example of a person with very worn teeth on his planetary gearset despite it being quiet up until the last minute:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=108706

 

[E-HP]

Nothing about the system I see below would alleviate the need for prevatative maintenance of the planetary gear set:

https://precisionpedicab.com/products/complete-bolt-on-cyclone-motor-system-version-3-950

Even an all steel gear Cyclone needs lubrication and avoiding preventative maintenance on an all steel gear motor could result in some very expensive repairs (due to the extra heat created by the inefficiency of the wearing and dirty (but not breaking) steel gears).

P.S. In hopes that your trash advice doesn't affect too many people here on this forum below is yet another example of a person with very worn teeth on his planetary gearset despite it being quiet up until the last minute:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=108706

Really? That's the best you can do? Your Google skills must be waning. Since it's such a huge issue, at least provide the hundreds of threads from Jump motor buyers whose bikes have failed due to improper lubrication. Can't find any? I'm giving the nod to experience on this one. Actual experience = 1; Silly vendetta = 0.

 

[Chalo]

For everyone else's information, the Bafang hub motors from Jump bikes have factory greased planetary gears. Their mileage seems to vary from none at all, to not much. So unless one is noisy, you don't need to mess with it preemptively.

Apropos the topic heading, do not run them on 96V. Nothing good can come of it.

 

[99t4]

Yeah I thought this statement was a little suspect:

They were on a Jump bike remember? A bike which got ran all day long at full advertised power...

Blatantly False.

Plenty of Jump bikes in my area. They're lucky to get used more than a few hours per day. If that. Otherwise they are sitting around doing nothing. Sometimes for weeks in the same spot. They get tagged with graffiti! As in territory markers. They definitely don't get "ran all day long at full advertised power." More like hardly ridden at all. The Link scooters get used way more.

So that statement does seem like vendetta fueled.

What does someone have to prove? Why do they make easily disproven untrue statements to try to prove their theory? What's in it for them?

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

Yeah I thought this statement was a little suspect:

They were on a Jump bike remember? A bike which got ran all day long at full advertised power...

Blatantly False.

Plenty of Jump bikes in my area. They're lucky to get used more than a few hours per day. If that. Otherwise they are sitting around doing nothing. Sometimes for weeks in the same spot. They get tagged with graffiti! As in territory markers. They definitely don't get "ran all day long at full advertised power." More like hardly ridden at all.

Jump operated In nine countries. Just because in your little neck of the woods (the Pacific North West) your eyes didn't record heavy activity all the time doesn't mean it didn't occur elsewhere. With that mentioned even a few hours per day adds up in an area where it rains a lot. Water is not good for the grease inside the geared hub...you should know that.

What I don't understand is why can't a person do 15 minutes of preventative maintenance? To avoid that is just plain dumb dude. This especially as we know gears can wear down significantly before making noise.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

What does someone have to prove? Why do they make easily disproven untrue statements to try to prove their theory? What's in it for them?

You mean Chalo? Maybe he would rather sell more cyclone motors and the labor to install them than suggest simple and easy preventative maintenance the pedicab owner could easily perform by themselves (which could potentially save the pedicab owner lots of money). It wouldn't be the first time such a business model existed.

Wake up.

 

[gobi]

I found your battery at Battery hookup
EV 24s 88.8v 37ah 3.3kWh EV module
Regular price$399.99. It's huge
Plus you gave me an idea to make my 20s spaim08 to two 20s to see how that might fit better weight wise.

Huge but compact, 3kw, lol
If I put that on my rear rack, it will probably seriously mess up my CG. But you gotta love EV batteries, compact and lotsa power.

I have some A123 pouch cells in my stash,
I will go for a 16s 48v build, don't have any plastic cases for these pouch cells, it is the compact 20ah pouch cell

150x144x14.2 mm

Connecting tabs -
So many options, I read here (can't find the thread duh) about using a crimp connector.
I picked up a 50 of these
https://www.te.com/usa-en/plp/termi-foil/ZnjK.html

I bought a specific size, can't recall now, but I found DIGIKEY was the cheapest with shipping, link coming soon.

Steps:
1. Fold over tabs and put a copper thin (1/16th inch flat stock) on one side and use 2 crimps next to each other?

That would make a light 48v battery and will fit nicely in the Triangle.

 

[gobi]

I plan on opening for the edumercation, I have a couple of extras, yes, my luck is not the best, so I am assuming I will f-up the wire. :lol:

The QS 212 motor will be delivered tomorrow, I swing by lowes and see I can get a floor beam hanger to make a little stand for the motor to play with it.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

No reason to open as ez to tear wire jacket. So don't open unless needed. Plus the bearing are very hard to get grease into and maybe sealed to some extent.

We are talking about the nylon planet gears + metal sun and ring gears, not the bearings.

My prediction is (for the average Jump bike motor) most of the grease will be off the gears...and what is left will be mixed with water, dirt and (some) metal shavings.

This is why I see recommendations for gear maintenance on some Bafang geared motors as "at greater than 1000 km or if it is making noise". Not "wait till it is making noise" which is just as retarded as "don't check the oil level in your car.....just wait till the engine starts making funny noises" :lol:

 

[E-HP]

No reason to open as ez to tear wire jacket. So don't open unless needed. Plus the bearing are very hard to get grease into and maybe sealed to some extent.

We are talking about the nylon planet gears + metal sun and ring gears, not the bearings.

My prediction is most of the grease will be off the gears...and what is left will be mixed with water, dirt and (some) metal shavings.

This is why I see recommendations for gear maintenance on some Bafang geared motors as "at greater than 1000 km or if it is making noise". Not "wait till it is making noise" which is just as retarded as "don't check the oil level in your car.....just wait till the engine starts making funny noises" :lol:

How long did it take you to tear down and grease your factory ebike when you got it? I mean, if you have an ebike of course.

 

[Chalo]

Okay, show of hands for everybody who's lunched the gears in a Jump bike hub while running at 22 amps or less. Anybody?

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

Okay, show of hands for everybody who's lunched the gears in a Jump bike hub while running at 22 amps or less. Anybody?

Some people have already had to replace their jump bike motors with new bafang motor cores because the jump bike motors make too much noise. Example below:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=110408&p=1673330&hilit=q100+quiet#p1673330

 

[maiz]

(delete please)

 

[DogDipstick]

Connecting tabs -

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity/329860

Steps:

Your link is broken. Here is a link to the Termi-Foil from TE.

I remember the thread, I think it might have been DoctorBass? Or Methods? ? IDK. Anyway, here is another link for anyone wondering.

https://www.te.com/usa-en/products/brands/termi-foil.html?tab=pgp-story

 

[999zip999]

As I understand it's a direct drive motor and it does not have planetary gears. So no Grease

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

As I understand it's a direct drive motor and it does not have planetary gears. So no Grease

The QS212 motor is direct drive motor, but the motor in the Jump bike front hub is a Bafang geared hub motor (SWX02 10T) with 5:1 internal reduction. The SWX02 motor core is reported to be as quiet as a Q100 when bought new but much louder (Gear whine) than a Q100 when the same person tested his used surplus SWX02 motor that came in a Jump wheel with 90% of it's tread left.

When the person with the surplus Jump motor wheel swapped in the new SWX02 motor core (which includes new gears and their lubrication) he was pleasantly surprised it quieted down all the way to a Q100 noise level. Unfortunately some people may not realize their motor should be so quiet. Therefore they could be riding around not realizing just how relatively unlubricated their hub's gears are (instead thinking they have optimum grease level and condition).

So just because a surplus Jump wheel has a lot of tire tread left doesn't mean the hub's lubrication is in good condition. Sitting outside unprotected 24/7 is going to take it's toll. Therefore preventative maintenance in a mystery hub should not be avoided.

 

[E-HP]

As I understand it's a direct drive motor and it does not have planetary gears. So no Grease

So just because a surplus Jump wheel has a lot of tire tread left doesn't mean the hub's lubrication is in good condition. Sitting outside unprotected 24/7 is going to take it's toll. Therefore preventative maintenance in a mystery hub should not be avoided.

I'm guessing you could make a lot of money opening up hub motors, greasing the gears, and putting them back together, all using just your keyboard. I mean you could perform that maintenance remotely that way, so it's a pretty high profit margin. :thumb:

 

[Steven Sheng]

I find one on Aliexpress but I haven't bought it.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32970325954.html