Wiring 40A Infineon to Crystaltye 5303

[VRdublove]

Hey guys,



I just realized that the Infineon 40A is using different connectors than the 5303 I'm using. I just wanted to check and see if you could steer me in the right direction with wiring it to the controller.



The 40A Infineon has two main leads to the motor:
First Lead: 3 pin wire connector that uses yellow, green, and blue wires.

Second Lead: 5 pin connector that uses red, green, blue, yellow, and black wires.'



And the Crystalyte 5303 has two main leads:
First lead: Flat 3 pin connector that uses yellow, green, and blue wires.

Second lead: Round metal 5 pin connector that uses red, green, light blue, yellow, and black wires.





All the colors are nearly identical, exept a different type of blue on the 5 pin connectors.



Is it a simple color matching wiring job, or is it more tricky than that?





Thanks,

Tommy

 

[steveo]

I would go through all combinations

try one combination of phase wires between motor & controller

try the 6 combinations of hall sensors...

repeat the process with the phase wires in different combination..

if i'm not mistaken there are 24 possibilities

have fun ... i've become pro at this

... be very gentle with throttle when trying this .. you can really mess things up if you don't know what your doing..

-steveo

 

[John in CR]

VR,

Maybe you'll get lucky with color on color, but don't count on it. You need matching connectors anyway, so the process is simple, and no don't hard wire everything up until you test it. During testing be sure no wires can short together, and get an easy way to have the wheel off the ground.

The set of 3 thicker wires are the phase wires. The 5 wires are for the hall sensors, critical for timing the motor pulses to run. For the halls, the red and black are mostly standard (+5v-red & gnd-blk), which provide power to the hall sensors. The motor sends a signal up the yellow, green, blue sensor wires as magnets pass the hall sensors mounted on the motor's stator.

Temporarily connect color on color, and give the throttle a partial pulse (wheel off the ground). If it spins well and in the correct direction, use your multimeter to check the current from the battery and spin it up. It shouldn't be more than an amp or two with a full speed spin, which is called the no-load current.

If the motor sounds rough or doesn't spin at all, swap 2 and only 2 of the hall sensor wires (YGB), and give the throttle a small twist again. Try all 6 of those hall sensor combinations. One will be correct and spin the wheel smoothly, though it could be reverse. If it's reverse, swap 2 and only 2 of the thick phase wires, and go back to changing the 3 hall wires till you find the correct combination for forward.

There are 36 possible combinations, and 6 are correct, but 3 are forward and 3 are reverse for an X5 motor. Each combination of phase will have exactly 1 good combination of hall sensors. A correct combination will spin well and be the most silent, but be careful of false positives. With some motors they spin it up, but with a bit more sound, so if the color on color doesn't work, you should try all 5 other hall wire combos even if one spins it up, to be sure it's the smoothest.

Alligator clips come in very handy for this. Definitely don't just start swapping phase and halls around at the same time, which will quickly lead to frustration. Keep those phases static unless you the good combo ends up reverse as stated above, and you'll get the correct combination quickly.

Doing it haphazardly or using the all 36 combos spreadsheet, leads to the greatest frustration for beginners, so stay with the easy way above, and don't give that throttle a full power twist out of frustration (I burned a motor and controller that way, when I was new). If you get an null result through a few attempts (no sound at all from the motor), then something else is wrong...Check your throttle connection, make sure your controller is on, etc.

John

 

[grindz145]

Check out this thread too: it might give you a hint as to what to try. I ended up getting mine right on the 36th try....I ended up trying a couple twice so it's probably best to start with a spreadsheet and keep the tests VERY short so you don't blow stuff up!

You'll get it.

 

[rkosiorek]

the 72V infineon i got from "keywin" did wire up color on color to the Crystalyte.

but i would not take that as a guarantee. best bet would be to follow the advice of the following thread:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3484
and using secure temtorary connections to determine the correct order.

rick

 

[VRdublove]

Update:

I found a wiring combo that has the motor spinning smoothly forward, but it's only reaching 19 mph at no load full throttle, while consuming 250 watts. Its running at 52 volts, and I'm getting these readings off of a Version 2 CA that's programmed to the correct wheel diameter for 20" (roughly 1500mm), and set for the factory shunt resistance of 1.000 mOhm for the plug in Cycle analyst.

I'm expecting about 30 mph no load with this, and power consumption of less than 100 watts at full throttle with the 5303 at 52V on a 20"

What do you think is going wrong? Are there wiring combos that will run smoothly forward but not perform to their optimal level?

Thanks,
Tommy

 

[grindz145]

Something about that definitely doesn't seem to add up... Are you sure it is perfectly smooth without any noises?

 

[John in CR]

Yeah, 5 amps sounds too high for no load, and yes 5303's should be fast. Check Ebikes.ca simulator, and you should also be able to see the no load current there as well. Measure actual current from the battery to be sure your CA is properly calibrated. I thought they need the shunt resistance of the actual controller. Also, where is the 19mph coming from? My CA required motor pole count along with the wheel circumference for a proper speed reading. Plus, no load should be in excess of 40mph to get 30mph while on the bike, and the diff in no load spin should be readily apparent with 20mph seeming pretty slow.

 

[VRdublove]

The motor is running very smoothly..

John, I haven't entered the pole count, so you're probably onto something there. What is the pole count for the 5303?

The excessive wattage draw at full throttle is still throwing me off..

 

[John in CR]

The motor is running very smoothly..

John, I haven't entered the pole count, so you're probably onto something there. What is the pole count for the 5303?

The excessive wattage draw at full throttle is still throwing me off..

5 amps is still low enough to measure with most multimeters. Don't forget to switch the probes back afterward. I've seen some calibrate by trial and error comparing actual current to CA reported current. ie Changing the value in the CA setup until reported current matches actual.

I thought the CA needed the controller's actual shunt value to acurately report current.

I have a feeling you may just have a calibration issue. Does the wheel look like it spins up really fast, almost scary fast?

You could try putting a little brake on while turning the throttle. A false positive won't have strong torque. If it's running really smooth then you could throw my overly cautious suggestions to the wind and give it a try. If it doesn't have good power, just stop immediately and don't try to really go for it until it demonstrates real power.

 

[rkosiorek]

read section 8.6 of the CA manual. make sure that the number of poles is set to 12 as it should be for the 5303.

http://ebikes.ca/drainbrain/Cycle_Analyst_Manual.pdf

that should solve any speedo errors.

and since i seriously doubt that your shunt is anywhere near 1mR you are not likely getting accurate current measurments. i think that the infineon controllers are in the area of 3.8mR for the shunt. but you would have to either measure it or calibrate it against a known ammeter reading to be sure.

rick

 

[VRdublove]

Yep, It was the motor pole count and incorrect shunt values. With the correct pole count, it's now indicating 37 mph on a full charge with no load, and about a 100W draw at that speed. Thanks!!

 

[John in CR]

Yep, It was the motor pole count and incorrect shunt values. With the correct pole count, it's now indicating 37 mph on a full charge with no load, and about a 100W draw at that speed. Thanks!!

Great! Now you just need to go to at least 72V nominal and an 80amp controller. It's a whole new world of performance when you feed these big hub motors. Even if you stick to just 30mph, it's fun getting there and you have greatly enhanced passing power and ooomph to get out of dicey situations or quickly clear intersections. Other than occasionally up some long hills I don't remember the last time I went WOT for more than a few seconds. The real beauty of it is that as long as you don't start riding at higher speeds the extra fun costs nothing in terms of efficiency. It requires the same amount of work to accelerate from 0 to 30 whether you do it in 3 seconds or 10 seconds, but the "fun" quotient is much higher. In addition the nature of the acceleration is different, because you can accelerate hard right up to cruising speed instead of that long tapered acceleration if normal cruise = max speed, and a headwind or slight grade doesn't have to slow you down. Give me the feel of a sports car every time even if I never exceed the speed limit. You have one of the best motors on the market for accomplishing exactly that. 8)

John