Would you like to go FASTER?

[velowatt]

I can do 28-29 mph with pedling, much more comfortable at 25mph. I like to pedal and use the motor as an assist more than the primary motive force. I use it mostly for commuting, but more and more for fun and exercise (I can get a good workout by laying off the throttle), since its a blast to ride. My bike is a semi-recumbent that is nice and stable at speed, but wobbly when starting out (low speeds) and makes a hard slow slog up hills.

The motor makes starting in traffic smooth and stable (front wheel drive) to match cars and get up to speed quickly. A little boost on hills makes long steep grades seem flatter and shorter. The two big flaws of this bike are negated by the power assist. I have come to think of the motor as a necessary part of this particular bike, needed for safe riding in traffic.

Too much speed makes it hard to avoid potholes and bumps, males riding stressful. Just enough gets you along fast and relaxed. It is nice to know that the speed is there when you want/need it.

 

[mclovin]

For me 20-25 mph is plenty. I have a 36V hub setup and on the flats I hit 19.5ish mph on electric only. If I pedal I can squeeze out about 3-4mph extra. At that speed I've found it to be somewhat dangerous for the traffic conditions here. I close in on cars much faster than they expect so they pull in front of me cutting me off all the time (at those speeds). But, in my city flats are the exception, hills are the norm. So, I'm more focused on getting torque and not so much top end speed. Also, low end torque will help me make it through those pesky stop lights a little more quickly.

My bike has almost completely displaced my car for trips less than 3 miles (1 way). Seattle is pretty dense and all my points of interest are easily within a 3 mile radius of my home. Also, I work from home so my commute is pretty short. After I got some well designed bike "luggage" I found that I could do some of my grocery shopping on my bike as well . So for me, going fast a few miles to the store (or movies or bar etc) is not as desirable as climbing 2%-9% hills easily to get back home.

I'm sure more regulations are in our future - especially when home made ebikes are hitting the 30s and more. It's only a matter of time before the legislators catch wind of what's going on and decide to "legislate." And, sadly, something (or a series of somethings) horrible will happen to someone on a FAST ebike and there will be a "public" examination of this technology - in the media or something - then our cover will be blown. No more security through obscurity. We can make our bikes stealthy for sure but THEE dead give away will be the speeds at which we travel.

 

[swade]

Its about control. Do you have enough control of your bike to avoid potential hazards, make the corner, stop in time, break to avoid that car turning left or right in front of you and so on.

Having enough speed to take the lane and own it helps too. See the advice on this good site:
http://bicyclesafe.com/
A throttle really makes following those guidelines a lot easier.

Sure, hauling down the bike path at 30+ mph really is fun, but when there's kids on it, dogs blind corners that kind of speed doesn't == control. But when its wide open for the eye to see, speeding on a fast bike is really a victimless crime in my mind.

 

[curious]

As former MTB'er I feel reasonably comfortable riding bicycle at high speeds. A quality frame/fork combination can take a lot of abuse. BUT and this is a big BUT - riding bike on public roads is totally different than riding a fast downhill trail. Since building ebike I started using it for minor shopping, errands, etc, which means dealing with traffic, parked cars and all related nuisances. In a way it is more dangerous than riding a fast downhill course.

When I ride rural roads I usually go relatively slow (15-20mph), do some light pedaling and stay on the right side. But when you get to village centers with all those parked cars trying to open the door right in front of you and traffic trying to pass you few centimeters from the handlebar I find it much safer to take a lane position and sometimes go faster to keep up with the traffic.

Mirror is a must for city riding. As for the helmet - I am looking to get a sturdier skateboard-style hardshell type or even a motocross one but I need to find one in 3XL size .

 

[morph999]

I saw an ICE moped doing 40 mph the other day and it wasn't registered and had no license plate. Maybe he modified it?

 

[DahonElectric]

at risk of being that old boring guy...

Don't fret about the "old." It's the "boring" you should be worrying about. The truth is that the bike laws in most jurisdictions never did, and still don't, make any sense to begin with. Before I blew my knees out, I would routinely ride over 20 mph (32 kph) on the flat on my Gold Rush. (Uh, I guess that's why my knees are gone now, huh?) On the downhill segments, I still routinely go over 40 mph (66 kph) and sometimes go over 50 mph (80 kph). My top speed stands at 57 mph (92 kph). My non-disk brakes have never had any problem stopping me. Should my bike be made illegal because of the speeds it can attain? Should bikes be limited to 20 mph (32 kph) with or without motors? It's nonsense. What difference does it make whether or not you have a motor when you are cruising at 25 mph (40 kph)? Obviously, there must be some threshold where regulation steps in, but, in my humble opinion, 20 mph (32 kph) is far too low.

There's no doubt that reform of bicycle laws is coming. Bikes in the U.S. and Canada have suffered from the overemphasis of the automobile as the primary form of personal transportation. The ethos was to keep bikes as far away from cars as possible, "for their own good." But none of us here need to be lectured of why this is just not going to work as we move into the future. Hopefully, we will be able to interject some common sense into the reforms. We may even get lucky. There might be one or two politicians writing the various pieces of legislation and regulations who actually rides a bike to work. (That might be too much wishful thinking!)

... we're not insured on a legal ebike either ...

Depending on your jurisdiction, your homeowners or renters insurance policy normally carries personal liability coverage. In our jurisdiction, accidents resulting from the operation of a bicycle are covered by your personal liability coverage. Again, this issue is going to become more pressing as we move forward with bike regulation reform.

Going fast on a bike for some people is only to satisfy one thing and that is, their "ego". Somehow, a fast rider is a good rider or is it? Perhaps, there's some self-esteem issues here so we are in need to go fast because we need to show to others that we can not we must.

There is a reason to go fast on a bike and that's when you are racing in a competition. Too many people watched too much of the Tour De France (coming up soon with Lancy again!!) and adopt riding styles on the road that seemed to defy logic. Running red lights, ignoring stop signs as if they aren't there and riding on the wrong side of the road all seeming so they can go fast. And they wonder, why are car drivers so pissed off? Hello? Aren't these obnoxious behavior insulting to drivers where they must obey road laws and you shouldn't? They have a license and they have insurance. So what gives you the right not to? Perhaps, you give yourself your own rights to speed and sure, that is fine for yourself. However, there are other people using public roads as well as you. Do you think they don't have the same rights as yours. Do you think you are jeopardizing their safety for your own self indulgence?

And how fast can you get to your work place on a faster bike? 5 mins or 10 mins or more?!? What's the rush. Perhaps if you don't treat life as only a ticking clock, then maybe living is some much fun.

 

[tostino]

On my bike, I ride it almost as if it were a motorcycle. I stay to the far right, stop at lights with all the cars, obey almost all laws, just like if I were in a car. What is the problem with going fast than?

 

[DahonElectric]

On my bike, I ride it almost as if it were a motorcycle. I stay to the far right, stop at lights with all the cars, obey almost all laws, just like if I were in a car. What is the problem with going fast than?

No problem if you are abiding by the rules of the road. I've been through my fair share of road and trail crashes. Suffered head trauma, broken collar bone and shoulder blades and 2 fingers that today can not fully bend to their full range of motion. Today, my shoulder occasionally locks up which sucks and sometimes I have a hard time engaging the front brakes because of the broken finger. I've been lucky though. A riding friend of ours who did aggressive MTB and drop offs went over the bars, broke his spine and ended up on a wheelchair. It's funny that before the accident, he was one popular dude (he's tough and cool). Once he's wheelchair bound, however, all of the sudden most his so called MTB friends stopped visiting him and I'm not sure what's he's doing now. It's been awhile. I admit that I am one of those friends who stopped seeing him too.

 

[recumpence]

I have had two fast bikes, a 40mph recumbent and a 52mph BMX bike. The recumbent feels fine at 40, but the BMX bike is nerve wracking at 52!

Honestly, I do almost all my riding between 17 and 23mph. That is where I am happiest and my range is best. I do like accelleration, though. My next ride is a 14kw trike! That will be geared for 40mph max. But it should be a friggin rocket gettin there!

Different strokes for different folks. If we work out the bugs at 45mph, then 20 to 25mph bikes will be that much safer and more refined. It is the same as road racing. Making a car that goes 250mph is great because it furthers development of typical cars.

I wholeheartedly agree that slower is much safer.

Matt

 

[dogman dan]

The problem is the almost, obeying all laws. Once you go faster than 25 mph with any kind of motor in my state, yer illegal. I admit, I almost obey all the the laws, but the one I break is riding my "moped" on a bike trail. Out in the street, I obey all traffic laws. Yup, the only sucker in town stopping at stop signs on a bicycle. One major reason cagers don't respect us on bikes is our scofflaw attitude.

Of course out in the dirt, haul ass

 

[recumpence]

True.

The police have told me on a few occasions;

"Obey the laws and be courteous and we will not bother you."

The biggest problem is the idiot attitude "I can do whatever the **** I want. No-one can tell ME what to do!"

That kills it for the rest of us.

Matt

 

[WonderProfessor]

I've been through my fair share of road and trail crashes. Suffered head trauma ...

Yes, we noticed.

DE, who said anything about ignoring the rules of the road? Yes, there are cyclists who blow through stop signs, don't signal their intentions, don't have a light at night and ride with dark clothing, and otherwise flaunt many of the traffic laws. But have you noticed that there are also many cyclists who do obey the rules of the road? (I love it when I stop at a stop sign or signal to turn left or perform some other vehicular maneuver legally and then I take a quick look behind me and see a motorist looking at me as if I were from outer space. "What do you think you are doing, driving a car?" "No, Sir, I'm operating a vehicle." Hopefully, it is changing motorists' perceptions of us cyclists, one driver at a time.) Oh, and yes, have you noticed how all motorists always stop at all the stop signs, never exceed the speed limit, and have totally stopped talking on their cell phones in the jurisdictions where it has been prohibited? Yeah, right! There are many motorists who flaunt the traffic laws.

Tell us, DE, what is your real problem with speed?

 

[DahonElectric]

I've been through my fair share of road and trail crashes. Suffered head trauma ...

Yes, we noticed.

DE, who said anything about ignoring the rules of the road? Yes, there are cyclists who blow through stop signs, don't signal their intentions, don't have a light at night and ride with dark clothing, and otherwise flaunt many of the traffic laws. But have you noticed that there are also many cyclists who do obey the rules of the road? (I love it when I stop at a stop sign or signal to turn left or perform some other vehicular maneuver legally and then I take a quick look behind me and see a motorist looking at me as if I were from outer space. "What do you think you are doing, driving a car?" "No, Sir, I'm operating a vehicle." Hopefully, it is changing motorists' perceptions of us cyclists, one driver at a time.) Oh, and yes, have you noticed how all motorists always stop at all the stop signs, never exceed the speed limit, and have totally stopped talking on their cell phones in the jurisdictions where it has been prohibited? Yeah, right! There are many motorists who flaunt the traffic laws.

Tell us, DE, what is your real problem with speed?

My problem with speed from ebikers is that, they didn't earn the speed by training for it -- they simply bought a motor to get it. That is the difference between someone who trained and put in some hard work compared to somehow who could easily buy a C'Lite X5 and be as fast as anyone can be. Keep in mind that the average speed of a pro rider on the Tour De France is actually around 22mph, some like Lancy boy can do a bit better, but they didn't get to that speed by simply riding fast. They also have exceptional bike handling skills, skills and balance you need to deal with riding in higher speeds. The window of error is thus shortened as the speed arises, so by speeding faster, you are at the most highest risk of crashing or injury if something goes wrong. And something will go wrong. Even the best rider like Lance Armstrong broke his collarbone this year by racing, but he is a very skillful biker. Nobody is immune. Chasing speed is a zero sum game with a bike because, you can only be riding fast on public roads. Problem is, it is you against a car. Who wins in a crash. Let me guess, the car obviously! Unfortunately, even a motorbike helmet won't save you. How many motorbikes do you see against cars on the road. It's obvious isn't it that cars outnumber motorbikes by a wide margin!!

As a cyclist in a public place, we are a minority. Shouldn't we be in our best behavior? We like to nitpick what motorists do wrong, but so we do the same and be damned and complain that we don't get the same respect and courtesy? As a minority in a public place, how are you going to expect respect if you don't even bother to show even a tiniest amount of your own respect to others? Respect is not given, it is earned!

So many people out there think they are Michael Andretti or Lance Armstrong. Seemingly that, in order to go faster, just step on the gas pedal more. And yet, they are driving on public roads, not on a race course. Who are they competing against to go faster? What's the hurry? Why do you have to make your life so hectic and competitive?

 

[liveforphysics]

I started racing dirtbikes at age 6. I've not stopped racing for the last 20years. I race 100+mph through desert baha and sand dunes with hidden ditches and rocks and logs and everything you can imagine waiting to wreck you. I've wrecked many times.

I ride my superbike about 100-190mph if traffic (or lack-of) permits. I like to hold the tire up in a wheelie to at least 130mph when playing on an empty freeway.

When I'm riding my faster than the "worlds fastest" e-bike around at 60mph, I get sleepy if there isn't at least some techincal riding in the section.

I may change the rake of the forks a bit to lessen the twitchy nature at speed, but I think 100mph bursts will be quite fine on my revision 2 of my E-bike.


At races, I watch handfuls of <10yo kids get turned loose on 50-80cc bikes that will hold 50+mph all day, have tiny wheels, and are more twitchy than a bicycle, and race them balls out through cross country woods courses that they've never seen before, and are filled with obsticles like trees and rocks and logs and unexpected sharp turns, and the kids manage to do fine. Yes, there are always a few crashes, always a few bumps and cuts, but 10yo kids mange to handle machines faster than 99% of E-bikes through a highly techincal course without much drama.

And yet some of you guys get your knickers bunched over people doing 30-35mph on paved roads on a bicycle?

Should you obey traffic rules and always be defensive of vehicles? Of course! Motorcycle, E-bike, or just out for a jog, you had better watch out for cars and pay attention to traffic. However, I see no reason why you can't go as fast as you feel comfortable going on an E-bike when the conditions are well suited for it. If you are being mindful not to be hit by cars (something that speed can make much more safe), then I don't see why many have such concern over E-bike saftey, while thinking less stable and less handling capable scooters are fine to be going 50-70mph, just because they have a licence plate.


I think perhaps this comes down to the machine itself.

If I bought a walmart bike, then added 100lbs of crap on it when it was all ready flexy and equiped with crap brakes and flexy wheels, has undampended suspension that is more of a liability than an asset, they, yes, you probibly shouldn't even be riding your over weight burdened machine. I bet 20mph feels like you are over-driving the machines abilities. If you ride a bike with motocross forks, motocross hubs, huge diskbrakes, well dampended suspension and lots of it, and a very rigid frame with minimal weight added, then higher speeds feel quite natural and safe. My E-bike actually feels more tame and handles speed better than my KTM 200exc motocycle, which is a real motorcycle with highway legal licenceing.

 

[Lock]

...We like to nitpick what motorists do wrong, but so we do the same and be damned and complain that we don't get the same respect and courtesy?

The difference is, on a light weight two-wheeled vehicle without the benefits of seat belts and air bags and crush zones, mostly we are endangering ourselves more than others when we "misbehave"...
tks
lok

 

[julesa]

Running red lights, ignoring stop signs as if they aren't there and riding on the wrong side of the road all seeming so they can go fast. And they wonder, why are car drivers so pissed off? Hello? Aren't these obnoxious behavior insulting to drivers where they must obey road laws and you shouldn't?

While I think bikes should mostly obey traffic rules (I will run a stop sign, but only if there's absolutely nobody around), it's not the job of car drivers to enforce traffic rules. If they're pissed off at me because some other cyclist did something dumb, then they have their own issues they need to deal with.

 

[WonderProfessor]

My problem with speed from ebikers is that, they didn't earn the speed by training for it -- they simply bought a motor to get it.

So then you are just jealous, is that it?

Chasing speed is a zero sum game with a bike because, you can only be riding fast on public roads. Problem is, it is you against a car. Who wins in a crash. Let me guess, the car obviously! Unfortunately, even a motorbike helmet won't save you. How many motorbikes do you see against cars on the road. It's obvious isn't it that cars outnumber motorbikes by a wide margin!!

A zero sum game? Okay, let's ignore that non sequitur and concentrate on the common misconception you bring up. We do not wear helmets when we operate a bicycle or motorcycle to protect us against collisions with motor vehicles. We wear helmets to protect us against the most common form of accident when operating a bicycle or motorcycle. The most common form of accident is simply falling down. There are scant few statistics available but, by a very wide margin, you are far more likely to fall off your bicycle or motorcycle than you are to be hit by a motor vehicle. And when you are in a collision with a motor vehicle, the few studies that were conducted concluded that it is far more likely that the bicycle or motorcycle will strike the motor vehicle rather than the other way around. Of course, the common fear and misconception is that, in most cases, the motor vehicle strikes the bicycle or motorcycle.

As a cyclist in a public place, we are a minority.

Not for long!

Shouldn't we be in our best behavior? We like to nitpick what motorists do wrong, but so we do the same and be damned and complain that we don't get the same respect and courtesy? As a minority in a public place, how are you going to expect respect if you don't even bother to show even a tiniest amount of your own respect to others? Respect is not given, it is earned!

Again, you are erroneously equating speed with disrespect for the traffic laws and regulations. Unless you are exceeding the speed limit, this is a specious argument. Virtually every person who has posted on this thread has agreed that the traffic laws should be reasonably followed.

So many people out there think they are Michael Andretti or Lance Armstrong. Seemingly that, in order to go faster, just step on the gas pedal more. And yet, they are driving on public roads, not on a race course. Who are they competing against to go faster? What's the hurry?

I have to get to work.

Why do you have to make your life so hectic and competitive?

I didn't make my life so hectic and competitive -- my boss did. And since I have this horrible habit of eating daily, I have been meekly compliant.

 

[dogman dan]

Again, at least in my state of New Mexico, you ARE ignoring the traffic laws if your "moped" can exceed 25 mph on flat ground with an adult rider. Your laws will differ, but in most places anything over 35 is a motorcycle, and then needs to be able to get a licence plate to ride it on the street.

I don't have a problem with speed per se, and like others with a motorcycle background I am quite comfortable going deadly fast on the appropriate equipment. I just get my panties in a bunch when I see posts from folks who want 45 mph on thier ebike, " so they can keep up with traffic" . It's illegal, It will cause the cops to crack down on all of us, and may be unsafe, depending on the quality of the bike you built. My cheap wallbike commuters are obviously not built to go faster than 25 or 30 mph, even with the higher than average bike handling skills I have. I also don't have the stones I had at 25 which may be a good thing.

Haull ass all you want in the dirt, or even on the street if you live in the sticks, but you city boys that want to go 35 mph plus are going to get us all slapped with a canadian style speed limit, or worse, 200 watts. Hopefully in my state, the moped laws will take 20 years for them to get around to changing.

 

[DahonElectric]

Very fascinating discussion with Wonderprofessor. Hope ur chilling out by now.

 

[mikefish]

Very fascinating discussion with Wonderprofessor. Hope ur chilling out by now.

lol...yeah...seemed like someone was a bit bothered by your opinions!

 

[curious]

Now, if any of you legal aficionados can show me the way to register my DIY ebike as a motorcycle in US (getting license plate, insurance etc.) I would be more than happy to do so. I can easily put stop signal, blinkers and other required equipment on ebike. I am not that good with bureaucratic procedures.

 

[TylerDurden]

Now, if any of you legal aficionados can show me the way to register my DIY ebike as a motorcycle in US (getting license plate, insurance etc.) I would be more than happy to do so. I can easily put stop signal, blinkers and other required equipment on ebike. I am not that good with bureaucratic procedures.

Markcycle did it in NY. You might check w/him.

 

[Lock]

Now, if any of you legal aficionados can show me the way to register my DIY ebike as a motorcycle in US (getting license plate, insurance etc.) I would be more than happy to do so. I can easily put stop signal, blinkers and other required equipment on ebike. I am not that good with bureaucratic procedures.

That's probably the easy part:
http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Vehicle/Motorcycles.htm

...wait'll you try getting the insurance...
tks
Lock

 

[GTA1]

Do it this way:

Go to the scrap heap somewhere, find a derelict, street legal scooter or bike frame.

Make sure it is not stolen, etc.

Get the vin number off it.

Weld the number (however done) on your new bike frame.

Go in and register it... with a straight face.

-----------------------------------------

Here is how to do it for Alberta, Canada:


http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/2819.htm

 

[dogman dan]

Yup, I keep saying, ya wanna go that fast, convert a motorcycle, it's got a vin number and the insurance guys won't have a fit. Otherwise, have fun in the dirt, or ride like you are illegal. By that I mean, if you behave, most cops could give a shit. But don't be suprised if they pull you over for going 45 mph through the 25 mph residential streets. Not getting pulled over by cops is usually a matter of passing the attitude test.