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wr250f conversion

Went for a ride today, triumph throttle feels pretty good. I think id like maybe a touch more response. Very dry and slippery here right now. Bike is maybe a touch too powerful for the conditions. Ride got cut short because i got a puncture and didnt have the tools needed to fix it. I wonder if its worth trying to implement some form of traction control. I have extra IO now, will wire up the front wheel sensor and write some code later.

Doug
 
It has been a while since we heard anything, any progress? :)
Yeah a little bit of progress. I finished the aluminium dash and mounted it to the bike. I also spun a PCB to go behind the headlight to replace the birds nest of wiring and plugs underneath. Not 100% happy with that part, I think Ill spin that one again with a few tweaks. The dash itself, I think Im going to do one more revision of the pcb, add uart passthrough and put a Bluetooth modem inside it to directly connect to the fardriver phone app without unplugging/replugging. Also completely forgot to add my overcurrent relay which I need for compliance on the road. Basically just an output which will switch if the controller current gets too high. Otherwise I havent been riding the bike much at all. Flat out with work. Probably going to need to pull the battery apart again. Looks like I have a small drain on cell 3, probably from when they got overloaded at the drags. I did capacity cycle tests on them afterwards and they seemed ok but I think sitting in the hot shed over summer has kickstarted some self draining. Very slow but I do wanna fix it. Will just replace all the cells in cell 3.

Hopefully in a few months Im going to start on a new electric project which should be pretty cool. Not a bike though.

Doug
 
Alright interesting, pictures of the progress is always nice 😉
Do you need an extra overcurrent protection, bms and a fuse is not enough?
No more dyno testing? :giggle:

It will be interesting to see what the new project are, some kind of vehicle?
My BMS doesnt have overcurrent protection, just monitors the cells. For road compliance you need to have a contactor to disconnect the main battery and it must open when the key is turned off. Ive done that bit. ADR also want overcurrent protection. You can use a fuse but your also allowed to just measure the current and open the relay if it exceeds the rated current. Given Im reading current from the controller, not a shunt, I doubt it will protect anything as a short externally from the pack will not register a current. Could probably do it based on voltage sag as well I suppose. Probably all irrelevent as I get the impression if I dot most of the i's the engineer wont mind. A lot of the rules are based around cars. I also need to fit a second 12v battery which can run the lights for 30 min. Ill fit it for engineering then remove it.

Nah, no dyno testing. The bike feels great. Perhaps Ill take it to the drags one day after work before they shut for winter. Im sure Ive reduced the top end power by turning the pha %'s down but its a dirt bike, not a drag bike and it far exceeds my ability to hold on.

Yeah, think Im going to build an electric ultralight aircraft. Still months away. I didnt regret making an electric bike so Im hoping the same will apply to an aircraft.

Doug
 
Small update. Pulled my battery apart to find the small discharge on cell 2. Turned out to be a water damaged cell in the bottom left corner. I guess water gets trapped there in the battery mount and while sitting on the sidestand never drains. 2 layers of glass isnt water tight. Repaired and this time I build an ABS box to put the cells into. Its a V1 effort, Ill run it a bit and if I like it make a v2 or get one vac formed.
Took the bike to the drags again last night. Got 4 passes in. Fastest was my last pass. I ran a 13.75 at 134kph. 1.99s 60ft, 5.3s to 330ft and 8.28s to the 1/8th at 126kph. I spent most of the evening struggling with wheelies and my fastest pass was when I turned the power down ;). I also may have experienced some MOE errors on one run. They seem to occur at the transition of field weakening. Didnt end up on the tow truck so Ill take it as a win.

Doug
 
"Did multiple 1.9s 60 foots and best time was a 13.6 @ 140kph"
That is what I found from another time before you modified the battery and tuned it on the dyno.
So it seems you did a little better back then, hmm :unsure:

Did you turn down the battery amps to help with the wheelies? (I suppose so as you said power)
Wouldnt it work to just turn down the phase A, if it was wheelies in the start?
 
Do you know what phase amps you are reaching off the start🤔I couldn't get more than 650ish at 380dc with the 1800 108v and the 620ish with the 96-850 model.Ive also gone direct drive with the same motor but decided I'm going 29s11p molicel pack for Mx events and quicker charging.The last piece of the puzzle just turned up🥳 the 3shul cl1000 vesc.I bought a mint 2021 kxf250 roller to speed up the build.
 
"Did multiple 1.9s 60 foots and best time was a 13.6 @ 140kph"
That is what I found from another time before you modified the battery and tuned it on the dyno.
So it seems you did a little better back then, hmm :unsure:

Did you turn down the battery amps to help with the wheelies? (I suppose so as you said power)
Wouldnt it work to just turn down the phase A, if it was wheelies in the start?
yeal last time i had a smaller rear sprocket, 46 or something, it'll be further back in the thread. I ran my 60t rear this time. I fried the battey when i did that 13.6 and 140kph run. So yeah, with higher gearing its a better drag bike. With the 60t I wasnt any faster short track because I couldnt use full throttle and keep the front down. Seems about 1.9s is the fastest I can go on a standard dirt bike.

i turned down both. Tried 500, 550 and 600A on the battery current and much the same as the dyno, didnt feel that much better.

Second pass I stretched out the field weakening to get some top end, maybe 15% more in most cases but that lead to the front coming up in the run, not off launch. also stuttered a bit so assuming too heavy on the FW.

3rd pass back to my original FW settings and 550A battery, still pulling wheelies. final one I went back to 500A and dropped the max field weakening value from 1800 to 1600. My understanding being that the % are scaled from that number. Still couldnt go all in. but managed a clean run.

Only got 4 runs in due to someone spilling there car guts on the track. It was fun but I wont be going back.

For a dirt bike, not bad. Completely blitzed the interceptor 650 my missus was riding and within half a second of the tiger 800 at the 8th.

Doug
 
Do you know what phase amps you are reaching off the start🤔I couldn't get more than 650ish at 380dc with the 1800 108v and the 620ish with the 96-850 model.Ive also gone direct drive with the same motor but decided I'm going 29s11p molicel pack for Mx events and quicker charging.The last piece of the puzzle just turned up🥳 the 3shul cl1000 vesc.I bought a mint 2021 kxf250 roller to speed up the build.
no idea, i didnt datalog anything. It was a touch last minute and just wanted to have some fun. Settings were identical to my dyno runs for the most part so looking at those will tell you my pha amps.
 
Took the bike out today, this time with knobbies. As a spur of the moment thing I had a crack at flipping some of the current limit settings. I maxed all the speed % ratios up to 5500 to 100%, then set 50% and 6000 and 5% for the rest. Then bumped the overall pha limit down to 1000A or double the Batt amps. This felt softer off the line, just a touch, but I didnt get any MOE error stuttering at all and absolutely rips in the top end now. Something about this controller really doesnt like too much pha amps when transitioning into Weak mode. Maybe a firmware bug. I will need to do some actual testing. The %'s have been bothering me all week. Motor is 55kv and about 100VDC so Id expect at least 5krpm without having to start field weakening.

Also rode most of the day with the throttle in sport mode. I like it, but its definitely a bit too nasty at times lurching or blowing the rear wheel out on hills. It feels a bit more natural then linear mode. Did a lot of log hops without issue so the instant response is reasonably good.

Doug
 
I programmed up and tried implementing variable regen today. It sort of works but there are some limitations. I basically had my dash change the programmed back current while regen was active and it increases the current without issue but it doesnt really decrease it until either the brake condition input is turned off or the throttle is re-applied. What that means in the real world is if I set the throttle release regen to 10A, start to regen and then set it to 30 amps, it jumps up to 30 amps. However, if I then set it back to 10A it will stay at 30 amps until I apply throttle. Same thing with brake as the trigger for regen, doesnt drop down until the brake signal is turned off. It may be possible to get around this by detecting throttle idle myself via the data stream and then applying a brake signal to the controller and turning it off every time I alter the max current parameter but the latency of the data stream means it would probably suck. Was worth a shot. Ill try PWM on the brake signal input but I doubt it will work.

Doug
 
Hi fella,just wondering if you have a rule of thumb for how loose you run your chain for off-road riding as I've just wrapping up my latest Mx build with the same motor.Mine is all together apart from pack I'm in the middle of building so don't want to strip the shock out if I don't have to🤞 Originally I was going to take the spring off and just cycle the shock.I imagen it needs to be pretty loose as I've done.Any help would be much appreciated 👍
 

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Update, changed my magura throttle for the triumph one i got. The triumph throttle has 2 independant hall sensors. Looks like one is for 3.3v and one for 5v. I just hooked up to the 5v one. 1v-4.5v swing. Sooooo much better, now silky smooth while cruising so it was just the throttle causing my issues.
Did you have the Magura hall throttle? I was thinking of getting one, was it this one?
 
Hi fella,just wondering if you have a rule of thumb for how loose you run your chain for off-road riding as I've just wrapping up my latest Mx build with the same motor.Mine is all together apart from pack I'm in the middle of building so don't want to strip the shock out if I don't have to🤞 Originally I was going to take the spring off and just cycle the shock.I imagen it needs to be pretty loose as I've done.Any help would be much appreciated 👍
Your going to need to have it reasonably loose. If you can get someone to help you by sitting on the bike and compressing the shock, the chain will go tight as you squish. Same as a regular bike. Your bike and motor mounts are different to mine so I cant really give you a measurement. You wont feel the loose chain like you do an IC bike as it wont have the pulses of power to excite the chain. You bike is looking good. The 180 will be a good motor on a MX track. You going for swappable batteries or just one big batt?

Doug
 
Did you have the Magura hall throttle? I was thinking of getting one, was it this one?
Yes, that is the same as the Magura throttle I had. overall not a bad throttle if your building a dirt bike. My pot was a bit scratchy and caused a very annoying pulsing on the highway during cruise. They are not hall sensor, they are pots. Id say a hall sensor throttle is better but both work. I only went to the factory triumph assembly because it had extra buttons on it and its whats on my 800 xca and Im used to how it feels.

Doug
 
Your going to need to have it reasonably loose. If you can get someone to help you by sitting on the bike and compressing the shock, the chain will go tight as you squish. Same as a regular bike. Your bike and motor mounts are different to mine so I cant really give you a measurement. You wont feel the loose chain like you do an IC bike as it wont have the pulses of power to excite the chain. You bike is looking good. The 180 will be a good motor on a MX track. You going for swappable batteries or just one big batt?

Doug
Hi ya,cheers bike is getting there now👍.Erm battery wise I'll be going 26s12p 30t cells.Really would rather have a lighter track bike and charge after every session.Im only after about 20mins for one full group ride and then I have a generator that will pump out 2600watt for my 30a charger and i will also be building another pack as they slip in through the top easy enough from testing.Want to see how this packs rides then decide if I want more voltage and power or just more ah.Im not a super fast rider so I think 40kw with all this torque will be more than enough after my 33kw track settings on my crf build.Main thing is to just get out for the summer with a reliable fun bike😁👍
 
Yes, that is the same as the Magura throttle I had. overall not a bad throttle if your building a dirt bike. My pot was a bit scratchy and caused a very annoying pulsing on the highway during cruise. They are not hall sensor, they are pots. Id say a hall sensor throttle is better but both work. I only went to the factory triumph assembly because it had extra buttons on it and its whats on my 800 xca and Im used to how it feels.

Doug
Glad I asked, for some reason I thought it was a hall throttle, I want to avoid a pot throttle for the reasons you mentioned. Seems as if the only options are really cheap ones, ($10), that I don't trust or insanely expensive ones, ($400).
 
Hi ya,cheers bike is getting there now👍.Erm battery wise I'll be going 26s12p 30t cells.Really would rather have a lighter track bike and charge after every session.Im only after about 20mins for one full group ride and then I have a generator that will pump out 2600watt for my 30a charger and i will also be building another pack as they slip in through the top easy enough from testing.Want to see how this packs rides then decide if I want more voltage and power or just more ah.Im not a super fast rider so I think 40kw with all this torque will be more than enough after my 33kw track settings on my crf build.Main thing is to just get out for the summer with a reliable fun bike😁👍
I was talking to my brother about this the other day. If a pro rode my WR on an mx track I doubt it would do a 20min moto before going flat. I could be wrong but by the looks of it Stark also felt a 6kwh battery was required for pro MX. Here in WA our club mx events are generally only 5 laps or about 10 to 15min so for a casual rider I could probably get away with half or 3kwh. That or as you say, turn the power down. Looking forward to hearing how it goes.

Doug
 
Glad I asked, for some reason I thought it was a hall throttle, I want to avoid a pot throttle for the reasons you mentioned. Seems as if the only options are really cheap ones, ($10), that I don't trust or insanely expensive ones, ($400).
For a high quality unit look for an OEM assembly, thats why I went with the triumph assembly. Any bike with a ride by wire system will work. As a reference the Triumph one I got was ~120AUD second hand and they are dual Hall sensor but you only need to use one if you only need one. They will accept a standard grip too.

Doug
 
I was talking to my brother about this the other day. If a pro rode my WR on an mx track I doubt it would do a 20min moto before going flat. I could be wrong but by the looks of it Stark also felt a 6kwh battery was required for pro MX. Here in WA our club mx events are generally only 5 laps or about 10 to 15min so for a casual rider I could probably get away with half or 3kwh. That or as you say, turn the power down. Looking forward to hearing how it goes.

Doug
Yeah it's definitely a balancing act like you know battery ah Vs weight ect ect.I think the us guy's need a FULL 30min at obviously full power.On a deep sand track I just can't see them being able tbh.I reckon the added ah or cell was not a late revision but a late to tell the public it needed more battery"we have the most powerful and lightweight electric bike in the world" not we have a powerfully heavy turd🤔🤣👍
 
Yeah it's definitely a balancing act like you know battery ah Vs weight ect ect.I think the us guy's need a FULL 30min at obviously full power.On a deep sand track I just can't see them being able tbh.I reckon the added ah or cell was not a late revision but a late to tell the public it needed more battery"we have the most powerful and lightweight electric bike in the world" not we have a powerfully heavy turd🤔🤣👍
I did notice that. Marketing out running the engineering side I believe. Still a cool bike and I probably would have got one instead of building my WR if they were available at the time. Still lack the ADR road compliance though.

I'm tossing up if I should try implementing some rudimentary traction control on my bike. Im sort of curious how much power is needed v how much I use. Once the wheel's spinning do you really go faster spinning it more? or just use more power. I really need to do a V2 of my dash. Would also be cool to chuck an MPU on it and have wheelie control ;).

Doug
 
I did notice that. Marketing out running the engineering side I believe. Still a cool bike and I probably would have got one instead of building my WR if they were available at the time. Still lack the ADR road compliance though.

I'm tossing up if I should try implementing some rudimentary traction control on my bike. Im sort of curious how much power is needed v how much I use. Once the wheel's spinning do you really go faster spinning it more? or just use more power. I really need to do a V2 of my dash. Would also be cool to chuck an MPU on it and have wheelie control ;).

Doug
Yeah I went with the 3Shul vesc mostly because of all the features ect that can be used.Oh I'm a big fan of the Varg but just not the false promises and definitely not the price.Looks wise it's ART in my eyes,👌
 
Went for another offroad ride yesterday. I turned my accel parameter down to 64 in sport mode and its works pretty well for me now. I can contain the rear wheel from exploding put of control now but still have enough pop for log hops and lofting the wheel at speed. Was pointed out to me that im probably under tyred on the rear as im only running a 110/100 18...a dot approved one at that. Was probably the correct choice when limited to 300A but im pushing 600 now so a 120 or 130 would be more appropriate.

Here's a short clip of a brand new sherco 300 showering me in rocks. Seems like a pretty good bike but only 1 ride deep.


Doug
 
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