wr250f conversion

speedy1984

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Sep 28, 2018
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Looks great,so this video was only 300dc then buddy🤔I really want to see this thing on the road at 600 bombing away from traffic lights lol.
 

dougf

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Mar 18, 2022
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That video is 600A, though i doubt i was drawing 600A. I can capture some footage on the road. Bit pointless with the knobbies as they just spin but next time i have the road tyres on ill do it.

Doug
 

dougf

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Swapped from a foot brake to a left hand rear brake for todays ride. I both like it and dont like it. Went looking for the brake pedal a few times 🤣. One big drawback is muscle memory from using a clutch. Otherwise i adapted pretty quick to it. Does seem to have a problem though as i noted the pressure of the lever change part way thru the ride and found the disk baking hot. I guessed at the time that i was riding with my fingers slightly holding the brake on but im not too sure now. I used a lot more battery today...like 150Wh/km vs around 60Wh/km. I dont know how a caliper holds pressure with the masfer cylinder open....need to look into it.

Some more riding footage for those who are interested. I was a bit sloppy today and the ground was pretty slick for dirt.


Doug
 

j bjork

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I think hand brake is better when you get used to it. I test drove a ktm freeride a while ago, I almost missed the first turn when I didnt find the rear brake😁. Then it was alright for half a lap until the same happened again. I have thought about changing myself, but I think I will go for regen hand brake and keep the foot brake for security if I loose the feel in my hands.

If the problem started when you changed to hand brake it seems like the fluid cant flow back properly to the canister. I am thinking either the channel isnt open in the brake cylinder, like you said by keeping it slightly pressed, or maybe a bad adjustment so the piston cant move back to its wend position. Or to much fluid in the reservoir so there is no room for it to flow back.
 

dougf

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Mar 18, 2022
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definitely tried stomping on an invisible foot brake a few times. I think Ill move to having both on the bike. As you say the foot brake is great when you get tired. I did try and nip the clutch a few times ;).

When I got home I checked the freeplay in the MC, it did seem to have a bit but Ive backed it off more just in case. It was bleeding fine when I installed it so probably not the issue. My current best guess is I overfilled the master cylinder and there's moisture in my open bottle of dot 4. When the brake got a bit hot from dragging the pressure went up in the entire system enough to continue dragging. Ill drop the level in the MC and get some new fluid. Ill need to ride to work at some stage Ill use it as a test.

Doug
 

Mugenski

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Enjoyed reading through your build Doug. I'm looking to convert a DR650 with the qs180 motor. Safe to say you're still happy with your controller choice? I was a little worried earlier in the thread when the rubber banding/ossilating throttle was being discussed. That's something that would drive me mad.

Its a shame the fardrivers don't have variable regen built in. Your success with this motor has given me the guts to put it on order. I'm still wavering on the ND1081800, Russ and Damon quoted 3300AUD for the DC1000 with 1800 phase variant. That seem about right?

I'm sure I'll be back to read this thread over a few more times after I get the motor tucked away in the frame. They are stating 15 days to source/produce the motor. Hopefully I'm not taken for a ride.
 

dougf

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Hi Mate,

A qs180 and a 1081800 will make a DR650 scoot along nicely. Im happy with both the performance and quality of both in my particular case. Yes, a bit more flexability with settings would be nice. I think a lot of the rubber banding on these motors is just from pumping too much phase amps into them. I currently only have my controller set to 1200phA and its snappy enough for me to not feel dangerous pulling a wheelie.

I havent done it yet but I want to get my bike back on my dyno and actually measure torque v pha amps at different rpms. Im pretty sure what ill see is at a particular point more phaseA doesnt = more power. Should be able to get maximum bottom end from that while retaining good top end speed.

I paid around 2k AUD for the controller but mine is the 961800.

What are you hoping to do with the bush pig? If your happy with a bit of extra weight you could go up to around 10kwh of battery for some really good range. Be mindful of what the maximum power density of the batterys you end up choosing. A light weight pack for 50-80km range would probably be lighter then the stock engine. A countershaft is probably a good idea in hindsight. More work but soo much more flexability with gear choices. Ive toyed around with the idea of making a low profile gearbox that just bolts onto the front of the motor flange....Its probably possible.

Doug
 
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Looks like a great build, did you mange to maintain it as road legal? I'm trying to do a similar thing in the UK but lots or red tape to get through.
 

dougf

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Mar 18, 2022
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Well, technically its still registered, just unroadworthy. Ive taken it to an engineer and they just need to sign off on them here. There are some stupid rules though, things like orange wires for all battery pack wires, must have a contactor that opens when the key is turned off, must have a second 12v battery capable of running the lights for 30min, overcurrent fuse, etc. The big one from an engineering side is any welding to the frame needs to be checked out. Basically, dont weld to the frame and your good. Ive done most of those things Ive listed in getting it ready to take back to the engineer. Still need to fit the 12v battery. Its stupid because as soon as its engineered Im going to rip it out.

I dont actually ride the bike that much on the road. I dislike commuting on motorcycles, too dangerous. The other reason I havent made this a priority is most people who see my bike dont even realise it's electric until I point it out. Yes, Id be done for riding an unroadworthy vehicle but thats about it.

If the UK is anything like it is here, you will be able to submit a form requesting permission to modify a vehicle and the DOT will respond with a document with all the relevent stuff you need to do.

Doug
 

harrisonpatm

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Aug 8, 2022
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Still need to fit the 12v battery. Its stupid because as soon as its engineered Im going to rip it out.
It wasn't required in my jurisdiction, but I did build and fit a small 3s 12ish volt li-ion battery into my build, with a way to easily connect it to my 12v accessories. I've used it twice, once when I wasn't paying attention to battery life and ran out of juice away from home. And once when my main 12v converter failed and I needed a way to run headlights while I waited for a replacement. Just my two cents, but consider keeping a backup 12v source easily available.
 

amberwolf

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My SB Cruiser trike has a separate 40Ah 4s (16v full) battery for lighting (of which I have a lot) and accessories, partly so that if I am ever stuck roadside fixing something I can run the air pump to reinflate tires (more than once if needed!), or lighting to see what I'm doing at night, or even a fan to keep from passing out in the 120F+ heat we can have at times. (I can also use it to run a 12v soundbar mounted to the canopy if I feel like it ;) ).
 

dougf

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Understood, right now I just use a DC-DC converter from the main packs, 100v down to 12v. I have the aux battery, just havent fit it. I only draw 30W on the 12v side so I dont really need a big battery.

Went for a ride today and about 20min in I stopped and dropped the batt amps from 600 to 450 and the phA to 1000. Soooo much easier to ride. I am not good enough to handle 600A. I have better traction at 1000A too, bike hooks up nicely, even at speed. Im a bit under tyred for the torque. Gone from 1600phA down to 1000 in about 4 rides.

Doug
 

speedy1984

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Sep 28, 2018
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I'm so looking forward to actually getting my bike running which is basically the same as your setup ish.
So you are seeing 1000ph at 450dc amps?
 

harrisonpatm

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It wasn't required in my jurisdiction, but I did build and fit a small 3s 12ish volt li-ion battery into my build, with a way to easily connect it to my 12v accessories. I've used it twice, once when I wasn't paying attention to battery life and ran out of juice away from home. And once when my main 12v converter failed and I needed a way to run headlights while I waited for a replacement. Just my two cents, but consider keeping a backup 12v source easily available.
Clearly, I jinxed myself responding to this topic: my 12v converter fried this morning, again (my fault this time), and for the third time, I had my spare 12v battery ready to go, powering my headlights on the way to work. Just goes to show that it might not be a bad idea having a spare battery ready to go.
 

amberwolf

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Some replies to the thread about that problem over here
for future readers of this thread. :)
 

Mugenski

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Hi Mate,

What are you hoping to do with the bush pig? If your happy with a bit of extra weight you could go up to around 10kwh of battery for some really good range. Be mindful of what the maximum power density of the batterys you end up choosing. A light weight pack for 50-80km range would probably be lighter then the stock engine. A countershaft is probably a good idea in hindsight. More work but soo much more flexability with gear choices. Ive toyed around with the idea of making a low profile gearbox that just bolts onto the front of the motor flange....Its probably possible.
The goal for the bushpig is to be a legally converted runaround bike. No offroad beyond graveI/fire roads. I would like the bike to be able to do a reasonable distance on the highway as well. Being able to commute or get anywhere I need in the warmer seasons is a big plus for this project.

After stripping the DR down I have about 90kg to work with compared to a fuelled DR. I figure 30kg for motor and controller. 60kg of battery. Thinking either 36s2p 58ah farasis or 30s2p 73ah farasis pouches. It's going to be a bit of a squeeze for the second parallel group but I think it will be worth the tradeoffs.

I'm estimating 150wh/km at 110km/h. This would get me close to 100km highway and plenty of range for in town riding with the aforementioned battery arrangements.
 

dougf

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Mar 18, 2022
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Your highway consumption will be dominated by drag at those speeds. Nice road tyres definitely make a difference too. I often joked with mates that building a lightweight faring would yield more road range then the equivalent weight in extra batteries ;). Riding behind another bike also increases range by around 30% depending on how close you want to get. I've gone down these lines of thought before and the usual answer i come to is we lack charging infrastructure here in WA, because I don't really have a range issue, I have a charging issue. Most servos will give you access to a GPO if you buy some food but that only gets you 2ish kW. 3 hr charge time. Double the battery and you get twice as far, but also double the charge time. If commuting to and from work then it works. Going on adv rides? Nah, need to wait for some better charging stations.

Doug
 

speedy1984

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Sep 28, 2018
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Doug, can you tell me your top speed on your road gearing fella please. So im 24s,19" mx wheel, 53r 10f gearing with no reduction,running field weakening,a true 450dc and 1300ph im seeing huge torque but still 85-88 mph.It wheel pull the front wheel at 45-50pmh and on the rain today i was loosing the rear at 60+mph when punching it. So because our Fardriver controllers come in 4pole setup and this is purely for the rpm display only so we are reading the wrong rpm data.Im unable to change mine to 5 pole till me new Ble dongle gets here and wondering what rpm you are seeing if you changed it.So i think you have the same 108v180 FD controller i do and im seeing a difference of about 20-30 dc current from my shunt and the controller.
 

dougf

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Im not 100% sure. Last time I had it at the drags I was running 11/60 gearing and it was topping out at about 134kph. I think I calculated that out to be around 5500-6000rpm. Motor is only rated up to 6000rpm. Your speeds arnt far off.

I think personally im still a bit high geared. It makes good gearing for dual sport but for pure offroad I would sacrifice some top end. Although i think if I was to make an offroad only bike id drop down to the 138 with the reduction and run a lot less power.

Doug
 

speedy1984

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Sep 28, 2018
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Yeah I'm looking at swapping over to quality 428 chain setup and then makes gearing choice slot easier,ok I need a custom rear sprocket but I can fit more teeth i need in a much smaller circumference.Also bigger front sprocket as 10t is going to wear the front chain guide out
 

j bjork

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Doug, can you tell me your top speed on your road gearing fella please. So im 24s,19" mx wheel, 53r 10f gearing with no reduction,running field weakening,a true 450dc and 1300ph im seeing huge torque but still 85-88 mph.It wheel pull the front wheel at 45-50pmh and on the rain today i was loosing the rear at 60+mph when punching it. So because our Fardriver controllers come in 4pole setup and this is purely for the rpm display only so we are reading the wrong rpm data.Im unable to change mine to 5 pole till me new Ble dongle gets here and wondering what rpm you are seeing if you changed it.So i think you have the same 108v180 FD controller i do and im seeing a difference of about 20-30 dc current from my shunt and the controller.
The motor is 4 pole pairs, so I think the rpm should be correct
 

speedy1984

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The motor is 4 pole pairs, so I think the rpm should be correct
Sorry had a brain fart lol.I found out the the controller knows what number of poles any motor is but in the app its states all as 4pole.Lucky for us we are fine lol.
 

NikePerov

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Oct 22, 2023
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An update on my progress of reading data straight from the controller. For those who want to do this too, hopefully this will get you going,

When initially turned on the drive will try and init the bluetooth modem. If its not plugged in it will continually try. Not a bit deal but make sure your code will handle it.

To start the data streaming back send these bytes,

{0xAA, 0x13, 0xEC, 0x07, 0x01, 0xF1, 0xA2, 0x5D, 0xF0, 0xF0, 0xF0, 0xF0, 0xF0, 0xF0, 0xF0, 0xF0}

A stream will start, but about once a second you will need to send this,

{0xAA, 0x13, 0xEC, 0x07, 0x01, 0xF1, 0xA2, 0x5D}

to keep it going.

The data coming back has a leading sync byte of 0xAA, followed by an ID packet going from 0x00 to 0x17 (24 fields). The rest of the packets seem to be data. Each packet is 16 bytes long, so 14 data Bytes.

Ive been a bit lazy because its cold in the shed but I dragged the bike into the kitchen and did some testing 8) . So far I have decoded throttle %, riding gear (low mid high), brake on, regen active, voltage, SOC, Throttle ADC reading (12bit ADC) and MOS temp. Couldnt find current, hard to tell by free spinning the wheel in the air, might be a job for the dyno. Im guessing watts is calculated, not transmitted. I also havent looked at writing data at all yet. Will look at it later. It would be nice to be able to change at least some of the basic settings from the dash.

View attachment 320418

If you just want it for SOC then it should be really easy to do with something like an arduino and a dual 7 seg display module.

Will update as I work more out.

EDIT: I suppose I should explain how to get voltage from 2 bytes. basically the controller is returning a 16bit number as 2 bytes, an upper and lower byte. If the voltage is at 95.5V the packet will look like this;

0xAA(sync), 0x01(ID), 0x03(upper byte), 0xBB(lower byte), (more data......)

so the 2 bytes together are 0x03BB. Convert that to decimal and its 955. Divide by 100. If your new to programming your data processing should look something like this;

voltage = ((upper byte << 8 ) + lower byte)/100
or;
voltage = (256 * upper byte + lower byte) /100

Doug
Hi,
I also have a desire to make a normal speedometer for my FARDRIVER NS30 series bike.
Did you manage to decode the controller and speedometer exchange?
Could you share your results?

Nike
 

dougf

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Hi,
I also have a desire to make a normal speedometer for my FARDRIVER NS30 series bike.
Did you manage to decode the controller and speedometer exchange?
Could you share your results?

Nike

Hi Nike,

I didnt decode the speedo output, I decoded the rs232 comms between the laptop and the controller. I believe most of what Ive decoded out of the data stream and how to start the data stream are a few pages back in this thread. You will need to be reasonably good at programming to do it as it involves handling a large input of serial data, splitting it into packets and then splitting said packets into values. All the values are in hex which also needs to be converted into decimal for us fleshy humans to understand.

I dont have time right now, but if its something some people want, I can an arduino library to collect and split the data. You can then do whatever you like with said data.

Doug
 
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