"Zephyr" - Finally, the "v4" Fechter/Goodrum/Hecker BMS...

[fechter]

In general, the MTA 156 connectors can take up to 18ga wire, so you should use 18ga or 20ga for the cell tap wires. The main pack + and - wires need to handle the full charge current, so this depends on your charging setup. 12ga is usually good for up to 20A. I think the holes can accomodate up to 10ga. If you're using a smaller charger, you can use smaller wire.

 

[Zenid]

In general, the MTA 156 connectors can take up to 18ga wire, so you should use 18ga or 20ga for the cell tap wires{...}

Thanks. But that reminds me of something else I don't really understand. And that it, what IS the point of those MTA connectors? Since the wires are going to be fed through into the body of the case, then the heads of the connectors are going to be stuck in there anyway, so why not just solder like it says you can in the manual?

Also, In the manual it says that if you DO solder them then "an external connector pair should be used". What does that mean exactly?

 

[fechter]

Right, you can solder the wires directly to the board. You should have a connector somewhere between the board and the cells to allow disconnecting the board in the event of failure or long term storage. It's also a good idea to make sure all the tap wires are in the right order before making connection to the board.

 

[Gregb]

The latest parts list on the 16 lifepo4 shows the header and the connector with the same part number. The correct number for the header is in the alternative column.
If you want the bent one the manufacturer number is 3-641216-9 . The last number is the number of pins.

the earlier version I had had left the "5" off on the header

 

[Zenid]

The Mouser in my area won't have the 47uF 16V 85c capacitors for three months they say... :?

{647-UMA1C470MDD1TE - 47uF 16V 85c
Nichicon Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Leaded
24
AUG 08, 2011}

Is this "Minelect 47uF 16V" Maplins item a suitable replacement?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/miniature-7mm-radial-electrolytic-capacitors-402?ordercode=VH11M
It's rated 85c and is 4mm diameter...

 

[Gregb]

did you try the alternates 140-SS470M1E0605P ; 140-SS470M1C0605P; 140-L25V47-RC : 140-L16v47-RC ??? I have gone for the SS470M1EBK-0605P.

 

[Zenid]

Thanks very much. Is 25V really OK then? Why did you go for that one rather than the 16V "140-SS470M1C0605P"?

I also have three other leftovers they can't find for me:

696-SSL-LX3059IGW
Red/Green Lumex Standard LED - Through Hole 1 AUG 04, 2011
Quantity: 1

652-3362F-1-102LF
1/4" SQ TRIMPOT 1K Bourns Trimmer Resistors - Single Turn 1 JUN 20, 2011
Quantity: 1

270-210-RC
210ohms 1%
Xicon Metal Film Resistors - Through Hole 24 JUN 01, 2011
Quantity: 24

Can anyone recommend Mouser replacements?

 

[Gregb]

If you look back u will find that 220ohms is fine.

 

[Gregb]

Thanks very much. Is 25V really OK then? Why did you go for that one rather than the 16V "140-SS470M1C0605P"?

Can anyone recommend Mouser replacements?

I thought the colour was better.....................

 

[velias]

I think I may have found a layout problem with the 4.4.2 board.
I am measuring a short on the 8th and 16th channels between the Collector and Emitter of the BD136's.
I have a 24 channel board and the 24th channel is fine.
I'm not sure, but on the underside of the board, I think the collector net shouldn't hit that hole which is a via to the emitter on the top side.
If this is true, then its easily fixed by drilling the hole/via a little bigger so it is no longer plated thru as a via and it becomes just a hole.
Can anyone else confirm this as a problem?

 

[geoff57]

I think I may have found a layout problem with the 4.4.2 board.
I am measuring a short on the 8th and 16th channels between the Collector and Emitter of the BD136's.
I have a 24 channel board and the 24th channel is fine.
I'm not sure, but on the underside of the board, I think the collector net shouldn't hit that hole which is a via to the emitter on the top side.
If this is true, then its easily fixed by drilling the hole/via a little bigger so it is no longer plated thru as a via and it becomes just a hole.
Can anyone else confirm this as a problem?

Hi
Post a picture of the short and the fix. I think mine does not have it but knowing where to look would help . A picture tells a thousand words.

Geoff

 

[velias]

I just used a dremel with a small drill bit and scraped the plating out from the interior walls of the via where it connects the collector trace on the bottom of the board to the emitter trace on the top.
Maybe a xacto knife will work too.
This is a Rev 4.4.2 board so maybe other versions are different and ok
Its on the 8th and 16th channels, so theres a similar via/hole on the 16th channel too.
Basically what is a via should just be a hole or not even there.

 

[fechter]

Yes, you're right. The bottom trace accidently got connected to the top when we added the holes.
Drilling out the hole should fix it. It will probably be better to drill away the via from the bottom side and jumper around the hole if needed. It should only be those two channels and only on the 4.4.2 boards.

Thanks for catching that.

 

[Zenid]

If you look back u will find that 220ohms is fine.

Thanks , and sorry, I missed Goodrum's post from earlier where he says:

For the 47uF electrolytics, pretty much anything listed with a voltage rating of 16V and higher will work. I picked these because they are physically very short. Her's one that is in stock: 667-EEU-FR1E470B.

For the 1K pot, again there are lots of alternates. Here's one: 652-3306P-1-102

For the 210 ohm, try 220 ohms instead. It will just slightly rise the HVC trigger point, but since this is a failsafe function anyway, it won't change enough to matter.

So that just leaves:
696-SSL-LX3059IGW
Red/Green Lumex Standard LED - Through Hole 1 AUG 04, 2011
Quantity: 1

Any ideas?

 

[Zenid]

I thought the colour was better.....................

So nice to know that I am in the presence of such technical expertise :wink:

 

[Zenid]

For the 210 ohm, try 220 ohms instead. It will just slightly rise the HVC trigger point, but since this is a failsafe function anyway, it won't change enough to matter.

How do you mean "failsafe"? I thought the HVC was the maximum voltage to which the cells should be charged, namely (for LIFePO4 cells) 3.65V. Isn't it important not to exceed this, or is it that there is margin enough to accommodate this minor difference?

 

[fechter]

How do you mean "failsafe"? I thought the HVC was the maximum voltage to which the cells should be charged, namely (for LIFePO4 cells) 3.65V. Isn't it important not to exceed this, or is it that there is margin enough to accommodate this minor difference?

Actually the HVC voltage won't change by more than a millivolt or so, but the shunt current where HVC triggers will be a little higher. It will work fine with 220 ohms. The variations in the other components will cause more of a difference. Normally they stay within about 30mV, which is well within the 'safe' range for the cells.

 

[Gregb]

I thought the colour was better.....................

So nice to know that I am in the presence of such technical expertise :wink:

You're right. That is why i can concentrate on the important things........... :wink:

 

[Zenid]

Could somebody let me know what I need in place of:

696-SSL-LX3059IGW
Red/Green Lumex Standard LED - Through Hole 1 AUG 04, 2011
Quantity: 1

Are these types of LEDs common? I can't get the last of my mouser parts until I know what to do about this.

 

[Gregb]

there is an alternative listed 78-tluv5300

 

[geoff57]

Hi
Is the schematic in the instructions correct,or are the schematics wrong as well as the boards. Gary can you start a fixit PDF file and put it on the first page of this thread or your web site. Somthing alon the lines of listing the errors found and how the fixes done, if that involved updating the schimatic include that as well. Make sure to list the errorsand fixes in some form of cronilogical order.

Geoff

 

[GGoodrum]

Hi
Is the schematic in the instructions correct,or are the schematics wrong as well as the boards. Gary can you start a fixit PDF file and put it on the first page of this thread or your web site. Somthing alon the lines of listing the errors found and how the fixes done, if that involved updating the schimatic include that as well. Make sure to list the errorsand fixes in some form of cronilogical order.

Geoff

The schematics haven't changed since v4.4.2, which included the control section fixes. All these latest issues have been layout related.

-- Gary

 

[Zenid]

there is an alternative listed 78-tluv5300

Thanks! FYI, my substitution instructions to mouser (Gr/R LED, 1K pot, 47uF caps, 210 ohm resistors) were as follows, just in case anyone else needs to send the same request:

In place of 696-SSL-LX3059IGW (x 1), please substitute 78-TLUV5300 (x 1)

In place of 652-3362F-1-102LF (x 1), please substitute 652-3306P-1-102 (x 1)

In place of 647-UMA1C470MDD1TE (x 24), please substitute 667-EEU-FR1E470B (x 24)

In place of 270-210-RC (x24), please substitute 270-220-RC (x 24)

 

[steveo]

I have 2 more for you guys...

what can i use in place of "TC54VN3002EZB-ND"

&

647-UMA1C470MDD1TE

... i'm using it for Charge Controller + 24s LiPo Cell Circuit

thank you
-steve

 

[steveo]

one more thing guys...

look what happend when i ordered from mcmaster ....

Thank you for your order. Unfortunately, due to the ever increasing complexity of United States export regulations, McMaster-Carr will only process orders from a few long-established customers in Canada. We sincerely regret any inconvenience this causes you.

WTF

so not fair