etriker
100 kW
methods said:
Oh no !
I get it now ! 
Zero-Draw, Solid State Contactor w/Precharge (Arduino)
- Thread starter methods
- Start date
Oh no !
I get it now ! etriker
100 kW
Try it. Discharge an A123 m1 cell until the resting, no load voltage is 3v then discharge it and see how much you get.
Not much.
Resting voltage = no load voltage.
Resting, not being discharged.
Not much.
Resting voltage = no load voltage.
Resting, not being discharged.
methods
1 GW
Why are you harping on this?
Who cares?
There are well established LVC cuttoff voltages for each chemistry. If you dont like them then go do whatever you want.
Now I remember why I stopped coming to this forum... it is a constant stream of people who sort of know what they are talking about wanting to argue about things that are totally uninteresting.
-methods
Who cares?
There are well established LVC cuttoff voltages for each chemistry. If you dont like them then go do whatever you want.
Now I remember why I stopped coming to this forum... it is a constant stream of people who sort of know what they are talking about wanting to argue about things that are totally uninteresting.
-methods
etriker
100 kW
methods said:
We are way interested in cut off voltages. It is key to how we make our batteries last a long time ?
I was answering a post you have since deleted. That is why I posted. I should always quote your posts else you will play the delete post game ?
methods
1 GW
I deleted my posts before I saw your reply because I realized that you were drawing me into an argument that I dont care about.
The "delete post game"?
How about we play the "I am signing off and you can keep talking" game.
-methods
The "delete post game"?
How about we play the "I am signing off and you can keep talking" game.
-methods
mwkeefer
1 MW
methods said:
Understood... it will add complication to recharge them too, what is critical failure mode ?Everything off and disconnected, then who cares, worst case... offer compartment within that has a spare pair of coin cells for an emergency death
Cheap insurance for useability.Loving it so far, what I can make sense of (most) - been too busy lately building a multiplexing functional R/C voltage sampler for 6S packs to do monitoring, etc but this looks like a great project!
-Mike
mwkeefer
1 MW
methods said:
Methy,
This is everywhere in life, why would ES be any different... remember we were all stupid but just smart enough to be dangerous and annoying once (maybe not you), seems like a shame.
-Mike
etriker
100 kW
mwkeefer said:
It is annoying when a guru posts wrong info about discharge cut off voltages then when corrected by a newbee deletes his wrong info, gets mad at the newbee and tries to discredit him ? ? ?
It must be tough being a know it all guru on this forum ?
I am always going to quote you kids from now on.
That is what I learned from this thread.
methods
1 GW
What I learned is that there are more than a few people around here who have it in for anyone with a high post count, different color name, etc. I dont know exactly what it is - jealousy? But you are the second guy to take me on in just a few days.
etriker - there are a few things you should know.
First: Guru status only means that I have the ability to post in the technical reference area. It states nothing of my skill, ability, or knowledge.
Second: Even if I were a Guru - the way you grow in life is by making mistakes. People who sit around waiting for a guru to make a mistake just so they can make a big deal about it... are not growing. This entire thread is an excellent example me showing my weaknesses and making design mistakes. I could have hidden away until my design was perfect and then brought it out - but that is not how I roll. If you check my post history I have thousands of posts sharing my failures - THAT - is why people follow me... NOT because my name is blue or I have a high post count or I live in California or I am young and beautiful.
Third: I dont know where you and that other guy got your ideas about proper cut-off voltages but I never posted incorrect cell voltage cut-off information and they are stone cold industry standard. If you don't think so then please stop your talking and POST UP SOME INDEPENDENT DATA FROM A CELL MANUFACTURER that contradicts what I said and what 99% of people who know what they are talking about agree with. No wait... if you are right and I am wrong - HOW ABOUT YOU GO POST ALL ABOUT IT IN ANOTHER THREAD? Please - go start a thread about how I am a Guru and I am wrong and I delete posts. That would be the most effective way to shame me right?
Whatever you do - how about you do it somewhere other than in my thread - because I don't care what you do or say... just so long as I dont have to see it here.
-methods
etriker - there are a few things you should know.
First: Guru status only means that I have the ability to post in the technical reference area. It states nothing of my skill, ability, or knowledge.
Second: Even if I were a Guru - the way you grow in life is by making mistakes. People who sit around waiting for a guru to make a mistake just so they can make a big deal about it... are not growing. This entire thread is an excellent example me showing my weaknesses and making design mistakes. I could have hidden away until my design was perfect and then brought it out - but that is not how I roll. If you check my post history I have thousands of posts sharing my failures - THAT - is why people follow me... NOT because my name is blue or I have a high post count or I live in California or I am young and beautiful.
Third: I dont know where you and that other guy got your ideas about proper cut-off voltages but I never posted incorrect cell voltage cut-off information and they are stone cold industry standard. If you don't think so then please stop your talking and POST UP SOME INDEPENDENT DATA FROM A CELL MANUFACTURER that contradicts what I said and what 99% of people who know what they are talking about agree with. No wait... if you are right and I am wrong - HOW ABOUT YOU GO POST ALL ABOUT IT IN ANOTHER THREAD? Please - go start a thread about how I am a Guru and I am wrong and I delete posts. That would be the most effective way to shame me right?
Whatever you do - how about you do it somewhere other than in my thread - because I don't care what you do or say... just so long as I dont have to see it here.
-methods
etriker
100 kW
Hey, I was just trying to help you understand what we mean by off the cliff.
You did not seem to understand and I was trying to help you understand.
You are the one that had to delete incorrect info to save face ?
You did not seem to understand and I was trying to help you understand.
You are the one that had to delete incorrect info to save face ?
dnmun
1 PW
will you shut the frock up!!!!!!!!!!
etriker
100 kW
dnmun said:
Thank you !
I enjoy your posts a lot !
dnmun
1 PW
shut up shut up shut up shut up shut up
migueralliart
10 kW
methods said:
Ok ,
I'm terribly sorry this has got out of hand Patrick. Fact is I've done several discharge tests at more than 2C of several chemistries to KNOW that if I'm discharging past a certain voltage I'm really doing damage to the battery. I did not learn this by reading here in the forums. I've logged the data and know the differences. I did not say you were wrong or anything so stop saying "THAT OTHER GUY". I made my point and decided to follow your suggestion; If a product doesn't make me happy don't buy it at all.
I respect you and have ordered products from you before so I'm asking you not to bring me into your arguments with etriker. Like I said I don't wanna argument with you all day long.
Thanks
methods
1 GW
etriker - you are now starting to TROLL.
If you continue to post in this thread with the intent of provoking.. as opposed to sharing accurate information... then I am going to ask that an administrator officially warn you. You are way off topic and I am done arguing with you.
-methods
If you continue to post in this thread with the intent of provoking.. as opposed to sharing accurate information... then I am going to ask that an administrator officially warn you. You are way off topic and I am done arguing with you.
-methods
Hi methods,
your work in the electronics sector is like mine within the mechanical world. Revealed here on rare occasions concerning my builds. The other side takes place at work where a team of mechanics, engineers and craftsman including myself design, build and test machines.
What´s so wonderful about this profession is the allowance of mistakes. My boss never makes a big deal about all the stuff we wreck while trying to reach our goals. We´ve built tons of machinery of all sorts and have learned so much on the way by trial and error. In fact this is the only path that will really satisfy in the end.
Good ideas don´t just sit there or fall out of the sky. They´r a long and time consuming process.
Only the patient will reach that point of perfection. What really bugs me today is the lack of patience among most people.
They want everything right away and off course it has to work immediately.
--True satisfaction comes the hard way, is painful and takes loads of time.--
Keep up the good work here,
Martin
your work in the electronics sector is like mine within the mechanical world. Revealed here on rare occasions concerning my builds. The other side takes place at work where a team of mechanics, engineers and craftsman including myself design, build and test machines.
What´s so wonderful about this profession is the allowance of mistakes. My boss never makes a big deal about all the stuff we wreck while trying to reach our goals. We´ve built tons of machinery of all sorts and have learned so much on the way by trial and error. In fact this is the only path that will really satisfy in the end.
Good ideas don´t just sit there or fall out of the sky. They´r a long and time consuming process.
Only the patient will reach that point of perfection. What really bugs me today is the lack of patience among most people.
They want everything right away and off course it has to work immediately.
--True satisfaction comes the hard way, is painful and takes loads of time.--
Keep up the good work here,
Martin
methods
1 GW
Sorry migueralliart - did not mean to bring you into it personally. I did not even remember who started this mess and did not realize that I was targeting you with the "OTHER GUY" comment. I totally agree that I dont want to argue and I support you doing whatever you think is best for your lipo.
-methods
-methods
migueralliart said:
etriker
100 kW
methods said:
Last post in your thread.
I have been on forums for years and know all about the delete post game.
When you did that I lost respect for you.
The delete post game is not cool and you are the one that started playing it in this thread.
You better be nice to your customers ?
methods
1 GW
Thanks martin
Those are some true words....
-methods
Those are some true words....
-methods
Dlogic said:
methods
1 GW
I accept your loss of respect for me and I agree that the "delete post game" is not cool.
-methods
-methods
etriker said:
999zip999
100 TW
etriker don't burn the guy out just Move it to another thread. Or website.
methods
1 GW
Parts are ordered.
When I order parts it is usually through Digikey because they are quick and easy... tho for the higher value parts I always use OCTOPART to find the best price possible. Octopart is an AMAZING parts search engine that will scour nearly every distributor on the net and show you a large table with the best pricing available.
Here is an example with my IRLB4030
Do you see how awesome that is? We can instantly see that Future Electronics is FTW with a 10pcs minimum. :wink:
There are two tips you can take to the bank. OSH Park and Octopart.
Smallest BOM I have had since I can remember
4030 fets
Attiny uControler
22uF cap
Battery holder
I have the 90V TVS diodes, headers, bypass caps, etc.
Now while the parts are being shipped I will lay out the PCB. Before I send the PCB out for manufacturing I will print out the PCB on paper (1:1) and lay each part down to make sure my footprints are correct and that nothing is mirrored etc. PCB's are ordered from OSH park - the only place to order prototype (or even short run) PCB's (thanks to Big Moose for turning me on to that)
I purchased enough parts to build 10 boards. After I shake out all the mistakes I will do a run of 100 boards to get prices to the rock bottom.
new subject:
I am going to drop the PWM capability and double up on the output pins. After I change the switch to an input pin that leaves 3 outputs for 2 fets. I will probably tie the fets together - so 3 output channels driving 200nC. I think I am going to be able to pull that gate up and down plenty hard - and I think the tri-states will be acceptable to drain the gate down in the case of BOD.
Perhaps I can combine the switch input with the HVC input and free up one more drive channel for the fets. I would then have to think about the behavior of the chip tho....
SWITCH INPUT:
Low means turn off
High means turn on
Toggle means clear latched condition
HVC INPUT:
Low means latch to the OFF state
High means we stay latched
A toggle of the Switch clears the latched state....
So I would have to find a way around that.
Probably best to keep two inputs open.
-methods
When I order parts it is usually through Digikey because they are quick and easy... tho for the higher value parts I always use OCTOPART to find the best price possible. Octopart is an AMAZING parts search engine that will scour nearly every distributor on the net and show you a large table with the best pricing available.
Here is an example with my IRLB4030
Do you see how awesome that is? We can instantly see that Future Electronics is FTW with a 10pcs minimum. :wink:
There are two tips you can take to the bank. OSH Park and Octopart.
Smallest BOM I have had since I can remember
4030 fets
Attiny uControler
22uF cap
Battery holder
I have the 90V TVS diodes, headers, bypass caps, etc.
Now while the parts are being shipped I will lay out the PCB. Before I send the PCB out for manufacturing I will print out the PCB on paper (1:1) and lay each part down to make sure my footprints are correct and that nothing is mirrored etc. PCB's are ordered from OSH park - the only place to order prototype (or even short run) PCB's (thanks to Big Moose for turning me on to that)
I purchased enough parts to build 10 boards. After I shake out all the mistakes I will do a run of 100 boards to get prices to the rock bottom.
new subject:
I am going to drop the PWM capability and double up on the output pins. After I change the switch to an input pin that leaves 3 outputs for 2 fets. I will probably tie the fets together - so 3 output channels driving 200nC. I think I am going to be able to pull that gate up and down plenty hard - and I think the tri-states will be acceptable to drain the gate down in the case of BOD.
Perhaps I can combine the switch input with the HVC input and free up one more drive channel for the fets. I would then have to think about the behavior of the chip tho....
SWITCH INPUT:
Low means turn off
High means turn on
Toggle means clear latched condition
HVC INPUT:
Low means latch to the OFF state
High means we stay latched
A toggle of the Switch clears the latched state....
So I would have to find a way around that.
Probably best to keep two inputs open.
-methods
methods
1 GW
So here are our tools:
Free Eagle Layout to build our schematics and PCB
OSH Park to produce our boards
OctoPart to find the best prices and availability on parts
Now - jumping ahead, to keep all this in the same spot there are two more things that are "must have"
First is a good set of tweezers - MUST HAVE
I like the Aven set
If you cant afford the entire set then just get the baby blue piece - that is by far my favorite for setting 0603, 0805, SOT-23, etc
Then we need the ability to produce rapidly - this means solder paste, a solder stencil, and a toaster oven. I get my stencils at pololu. I dont know if they are the best but I found the link on Sparkfun some time back and it has worked well. They are Mylar and great for short runs - a few pieces to a few hundred. If you get serious you will want to go with a metal stencil - we certainly are this time - but you want to wait to pay for one of those until you have knocked out a few hundred and you are sure things are stable.
Ok - I am off to go make parts and do the layout. At the same time we are going to FINALLY lay out the surf boards so that people can start to beef up the capacitance of their boards. We are committed to the surf boards - as Matthew has already invested in a reel of 1,000 of our favorite caps :wink: Those buggers are very expensive... but it is worth it for 250V 1.2uF tiny ceramic goodness.
-methods
Free Eagle Layout to build our schematics and PCB
OSH Park to produce our boards
OctoPart to find the best prices and availability on parts
Now - jumping ahead, to keep all this in the same spot there are two more things that are "must have"
First is a good set of tweezers - MUST HAVE
I like the Aven set
If you cant afford the entire set then just get the baby blue piece - that is by far my favorite for setting 0603, 0805, SOT-23, etc
Then we need the ability to produce rapidly - this means solder paste, a solder stencil, and a toaster oven. I get my stencils at pololu. I dont know if they are the best but I found the link on Sparkfun some time back and it has worked well. They are Mylar and great for short runs - a few pieces to a few hundred. If you get serious you will want to go with a metal stencil - we certainly are this time - but you want to wait to pay for one of those until you have knocked out a few hundred and you are sure things are stable.
Ok - I am off to go make parts and do the layout. At the same time we are going to FINALLY lay out the surf boards so that people can start to beef up the capacitance of their boards. We are committed to the surf boards - as Matthew has already invested in a reel of 1,000 of our favorite caps :wink: Those buggers are very expensive... but it is worth it for 250V 1.2uF tiny ceramic goodness.
-methods
methods
1 GW
Changes:
* Common gate (to allow the use of one pull down resistor if it is needed)
* DNP (Do not populate) pull down resistor as CYA
* 3 output pins ganged to drive the fet (care must be taken to not create a short circuit)
* Switch moved from Power to an input
-methods
* Common gate (to allow the use of one pull down resistor if it is needed)
* DNP (Do not populate) pull down resistor as CYA
* 3 output pins ganged to drive the fet (care must be taken to not create a short circuit)
* Switch moved from Power to an input
-methods
grindz145
1 MW
Slick, simple gate drive circuit. Are you going to program the AVRs out of circuit? If not, how are you going to get away with having the MISO and MOSI and sck connected together?
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