zombiess
10 MW
iovaykind said:
Yes, the swing arm is 2 pieces and has large bearings that need to be pressed onto the frame pivot. The swing arm is then secured with 4 to 6 cap head bolts. It's very sturdy.
ZombieSS's Official Greyborg Warp build thread LOTS OF PICs
- Thread starter zombiess
- Start date
Yes, the swing arm is 2 pieces and has large bearings that need to be pressed onto the frame pivot. The swing arm is then secured with 4 to 6 cap head bolts. It's very sturdy.
zombiess
10 MW
20" accelerates faster but for comfort and confidence / overall performance the Greyborg blows it out of the water. If I only had one bike it would be the Greyborg Warp. That might sound like self serving marketing hype, but once you ride it you would understand.1KW said:
Rix
100 TW
Zombies, any update on your Warp build? did you decide on a color scheme? How do you like those 244s? Any regrets?
Rick
Rick
zombiess
10 MW
Rix said:
For now the panels at staying white. I LOVE the way the bike rides. Tires are good, no regrets with them and I have now put around 8 miles of pedal only use on them with 52-16t gearing due to the eb325 controllers being garbage and killing a single FET in the high side of phase B. Other than the controller issue the bike is solid. The suspension and balance gives me more confidence than any other bike I have ridden. I need to find a good rider and have him try it out. I am not one to jump stuff but I have started to hop small things like speed bumps while going 30mph. I have never done that on any of my bikes before. I find I am pushing this bike much harder than anything else I have ridden. While any real MTB rider will laugh at me saying that, I was surprised I started to ride this way since I never have before even though I have a full suspension MTB.
I need to solve my controller problem by switching it out for an eb236 or eb224, then I will be riding it a lot more often. I have been running it at 74v 110a, but it feels like it could use more acceleration so I am debating running it at 100v 150a. I am not after top speed, but I recently rode my high speed wind motor at 100v 150a and was blown away at how much faster it was and I only did a very short blip around 20mph since I only had a 60a fuse in it and mostly discharged batts. The front end lifted. It will not do that on 75v 150a unless I am at a dead stop with a full charge.
Original plan was 18s4p and now I am thinking 24s3p so I can get this bike to power wheelie when I want it too.
Rix
100 TW
Thanks Zombiess, I appreciate the update. Yah if power wheelies is the goal, more volts and amps are needed. I have watched your 20" vids probably 30 times, fast fast fast at 59mph and getting there quickly. 24s at 150 amps comes to 15KW peak. Yah that should get the front wheel off the ground. I know a couple of Italians running the cromotor at 30s and 250amps. With 26" wheels, they are pulling power wheelies at 25MPH. Just wondering how long the mighty cro will last at that kind of peak current? Since I am such a fat bastard, I would need to keep it a little more mellow for reliability purposes. If you need someone to test your machine out offroad or set up your suspension, I am your man. We should plan a ride late next spring. I live about 8 hours away from LA. I was looking at planning Big Bear or Mamoth or Kernville Ridgecrest weekend ride next May or so. Got Yosemite out of the way, got to start making my way south.
Rick
Rick
cwah
100 MW
So with the cromotor and greyborg, is it better to use a 20" wheel or 26"?
And what's the optimal voltage and speed?
And what's the optimal voltage and speed?
Rix
100 TW
cwah said:
For hub motors, smaller the wheel/tire outside diameter, better the power, thrust/acceleration, and efficiency. Smaller wheels perform better and put more power to the ground, bigger wheels handle better. Awe! can't have it both ways. The dilemma for the perfect size wheel/tire combo.
For hub motors, smaller the wheel/tire outside diameter, better the power, thrust/acceleration, and efficiency. Smaller wheels perform better and put more power to the ground, bigger wheels handle better. Awe! can't have it both ways. The dilemma for the perfect size wheel/tire combo.
I have a cromotor in a 26". Handling is beautiful. I forgot who said they use a 24" and they swear that is the perfect combo. I will say now I wish I would have listened to the experts and gone with a smaller diameter. Can still do it but it will be a pain in the ass. ( I'm old and lazy.)
Rix
100 TW
100volts+ said:For hub motors, smaller the wheel/tire outside diameter, better the power, thrust/acceleration, and efficiency. Smaller wheels perform better and put more power to the ground, bigger wheels handle better. Awe! can't have it both ways. The dilemma for the perfect size wheel/tire combo.
I have a cromotor in a 26". Handling is beautiful. I forgot who said they use a 24" and they swear that is the perfect combo. I will say now I wish I would have listened to the experts and gone with a smaller diameter. Can still do it but it will be a pain in the ass. ( I'm old and lazy.)
Not to mention the money put out for the rim, spokes, tires and tubes.
Rick
cwah
100 MW
Same for me. I'm advised to get a 26" but I want crazy acceleration and efficiency.
I'm thinking to get greyborg frame.
Shall I get a 20" wheel?
I can then overvolt it to 100V to get 80km/h and maybe 100A for good acceleration?
I'm thinking to get greyborg frame.
Shall I get a 20" wheel?
I can then overvolt it to 100V to get 80km/h and maybe 100A for good acceleration?
Also wish I had gone the 24" rim, as I have a 26in rim with the Greyborg frame and Cromotor. Not that I am complaining. Its runs silky smooth, and super quite.
Running the Adaptto E- mini which seems quite nice. Couldn't justify the extra dollars for the bigger controller just yet.
Nothing to compare it to as this is the first ebike build apart from a ready built 500w battleship mountain bike from China.
Acceleration is still very quick once you get above 5-10km/hr and for some reason it seems to accelerate quicker once above 30km/hr. Running a 20s2p, 72v, 10A.
Dan.
Running the Adaptto E- mini which seems quite nice. Couldn't justify the extra dollars for the bigger controller just yet.
Nothing to compare it to as this is the first ebike build apart from a ready built 500w battleship mountain bike from China.
Acceleration is still very quick once you get above 5-10km/hr and for some reason it seems to accelerate quicker once above 30km/hr. Running a 20s2p, 72v, 10A.
Dan.
cwah
100 MW
is 20" too small? 24" is better?
Alan B
100 GW
I'm using 17" moped rims on my GreyBorg Warp frame with CroMotor, and with tires they are about 23.5" diameter. They handle well and I would choose them again. In 3,000 miles I wore out the rear Gazelle, but the front looks nearly new. I've had 2 flats in 4,000 plus miles, both were nails from construction in the rear tire. No problems with flats from glass, rim pinches, or thorns that bicycle tires are subject to. I commute with this machine, so lots of dependable miles are the goal, and it is doing that well. I think the 24" size is a nice compromise between power, ground clearance, acceleration and handling. I used slightly short cranks and have to watch for pedal strike in the corners, but when it occurs it doesn't upset the bike (just annoys me). A longer shock would help here, as would even shorter crank arms.
cwah
100 MW
I really love acceleration, so I suppose 17" rim would be good for me.
What's the best voltage and power to use for 80km/h?
What about 100V100A?
What's the best voltage and power to use for 80km/h?
What about 100V100A?
Alan B
100 GW
72V gets about 39mph on 23.5" tires with (4 turn V1?) motor.
cwah
100 MW
so I need at least 100V? how much current can accept the cromotor? Is 100A100V or 100A120V ok?
Alan B
100 GW
cwah said:
Motor says 3000W 72V on it, I've put 6KW short term and it barely warmed up. Your choice, your risk.
Rix
100 TW
cwah said:
I am currently running this size rim on my Bomber at the moment. It is noticably different over the 24MTB rim and duro rasor back I ran before. Much more accelertation. Here is a pic of what a 17x1.4 rim running a 3.00x17 Shinkor SR241 looks like with a 24MTB running a 3.00x24 MTB Razorback on the front. The next pic is a 19x1.4 rim running a 2.50x19 Brigestone M23. As you can see the 19x1.4 is identical to the 24MTB tire and the 17 is only slightly smaller.
Rick
Attachments
Alan B
100 GW
It really depends on the load, speed and the period of time. 5kw will warm it up climbing a long steep grade. Not hot in a mile of 15%, but warm. 10kw in the right circumstances could get it very hot. I recall some earlier guidelines of 4kw continuous and 6kw short-term for reliable service life. Beyond that the efficiency may be dropping off and heat production rising rapidly. Think of what a 9C 2808 can handle, and double it. That will be in the ballpark. They can take more but they are heating up if you do it too long or too often, especially at low speed.
Holbrook
10 mW
Rick- what is the difference between 5405 and the Cromotor V3? Do they have simular torque?
I haven't had this problem. Of course I am a fat ass and only running 5KW peak. But as Mickey Rourk quoted in Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man, "its better to be dead and cool, than alive and uncool". So that power wheelie you carried is on par with how I think things should be even if your oh shit face was concealed behind a full face helmet.
.
Well that tells me you are going way north of 5KW. Better be used to those power wheelies 
Rick[/quote]
Rix said:
I haven't had this problem. Of course I am a fat ass and only running 5KW peak. But as Mickey Rourk quoted in Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man, "its better to be dead and cool, than alive and uncool". So that power wheelie you carried is on par with how I think things should be even if your oh shit face was concealed behind a full face helmet.
. Well that tells me you are going way north of 5KW. Better be used to those power wheelies
Rick[/quote]
Rix
100 TW
Holbrook, as far as torque goes, I can't be 100% sure because the 5405 and Cromo haven't been tested/ran against each other, at least that I have seen. But lets discuss the differences and theoretical out come based on the known knowns. Stator widths, the Cromo is 50.5mm and the Crystalyte is listed as 40mm. Mine is 41 on the mic. This difference would suggest the Cromo would have much more torque. But the 5405 has an extra turn on the stator, its 5 winds vs the cromos 4 winds. Add to that the outer diameter of the 54xx hub shell is about 10-11mm more giving it a little bit more advantage. All in all, I would have to say that the stall torque figures would be close, but the Cromo has the potential to be more powerful off the line and faster on top than the 5405. I believe the 5403 would out run it on top, but wouldn't take off as quick. The 5404 is the closest to the cromotor in terms of stator winds. Even thought the hub shell is bigger OD on the 5404, the stator is also 10mm narrower. I think if the same volts and amps were input into the 5404 and the cromo, the cromo would pull harder and the 5404 and the cromo would be with in 1-2MPH of each other for top speed. Dlogic has ran both the Cromo V1 and 5403, he could provide some data on the differences between those two.
Recently I posted some ride data about my 5405, and how I wasn't impressed with it. Well as I discovered, one of my Xt150 on the Phase wire from the controller had the solder come loose in the connector bowl. I discovered this while trouble shooting why my 5405 wasn't pulling any harder than the 5404, during my initial testing. Now that I got that blob of solder actually solder to the Xt150 plug, the 5405 is pulling harder than the 5404. has ran both the Cromo V1 and 5403, he could definitely provide some data on those two. I am going to up date the ride report I post on the Stealth about it.
Rick
zombiess
10 MW
The two biggest advantages of the Cromotor are having the wider stator, the V2/V3 is 48.x mm and made with high quality steel and thin lamination's. This gives it >90% efficiency (91-92% is the spec I believe). Higher efficiency means less waste heat, more power transferred into work, wider stator = more torque means get up to speed faster, climb steeper hills.
The number of turns on the motor don't really matter that much for overall output, it just means you need either more volts or more amps to reach saturation, this choice effects controllers and battery voltage along with wheel size when picking a motor.
Another big advantage is the Cromotor is cheaper from what I have seen, I know it's easier to obtain. Last I saw the 54xx motors were $700-800 USD.
For speed the 5403 is the best one to compare to the Cromotor. A 5403 has a KV of 9.65 and the Cromotor is 9.35. Add in the extra torque and efficiency of the Cromotor and you end up with about the same top speed. One of my customers is reporting 80A battery draw at 66mph in a tuck on 125V, 26" MTB tires I think. I can go 55MPH on mine at 100V with 25.3" tires, never bothered to look at my amps at speed though other than to see it was under 100A.
The number of turns on the motor don't really matter that much for overall output, it just means you need either more volts or more amps to reach saturation, this choice effects controllers and battery voltage along with wheel size when picking a motor.
Another big advantage is the Cromotor is cheaper from what I have seen, I know it's easier to obtain. Last I saw the 54xx motors were $700-800 USD.
For speed the 5403 is the best one to compare to the Cromotor. A 5403 has a KV of 9.65 and the Cromotor is 9.35. Add in the extra torque and efficiency of the Cromotor and you end up with about the same top speed. One of my customers is reporting 80A battery draw at 66mph in a tuck on 125V, 26" MTB tires I think. I can go 55MPH on mine at 100V with 25.3" tires, never bothered to look at my amps at speed though other than to see it was under 100A.
Similar threads
