waste of time. don't bother.

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Novembersierra28,

i find that your suggested build is just as offensive and insulting as you find my comments to be. it is an incredibly irresponsible thing for you to print in a public forum. who knows someone might take you seriously. and that would be dangerous. i was merely pointing out how insane your plan was by comparing it to an equaly insane idea. both you and i are a bit over the top.

even your "inspiration" has admited how bad the idea was and cautions against trying it. you think he was kidding about that?

Question - were you equaly impressed by the stupid/sick/dangerous stunts depicted in the "JACKASS" movies.

rick
 
If you can follow the wiring directions from earlier in the thread, then go for it. I don't think a chain whipping around is likely. They usually just spit out when they break.

Have a kill switch handy, and practice using it, and don't go faster than you have braking and steering control. Better still, don't go faster than you're willing to crash.

It should be a useful experiment, at least, and you should learn a lot from it, bearing in mind that I haven't healed yet from my first electric bike, my first frame failure, and first crash...
 
even a fairly mundane accident can have serious consequences. a few years ago i had a fairly basic accident. little bit of road rash. i just cleaned up using some disinfectant. almost all of it healed in a couple of days.

all except for one very small spot on my left ankle. got infected. saw a doctor. several rounds of various antibiotics. ast least one week long hospital stay. that spot would never heal. it would get better, than worse. 6 months later it turned septic. gangrene set in. i lost the leg.

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including rehab, that was a 3 month hospital stay. all i did was take a low speed tumble.

i am still willing to try dangerous/risky things. but i draw the line when the odds change from unlikely to "i hope it happens later rather than sooner." and that is what he is suggesting.

rick
 
How is what he is doing anymore dangerous than strapping 100 plus volts onto a Walmart bike then bolting on a x5 hub motor? I dont hear people bitching about that ...

Best of luck..

KiM
 
novembersierra28 said:
I have no intention of using the full power of the controller.

I doubt the batteries would let you, but all the same, that's a healthy intention. Bicycles are designed to be safe and reliable with average power outputs of less than 500W, surges of less than 2500W, and instantaneous power (hard kicks/stomps) of maybe 5000W. Your Etek can deliver more punishment than the hardest pedal stoke from an elite track sprinter, but without letting up at all. The frame will wind up under power and things will be pushed to the breaking point.

I have broken off top quality crank spindles with forceful pedaling-- no power assist. One time, the result was me falling onto my face and knocking out a bunch of teeth. That's no fun.

I've also broken cassette freehubs and gearhubs and coaster brakes with pedaling alone. Screw-on freewheels have been more reliable for me-- but the axles of freewheel hubs are a lot less reliable. If I can break those things with the pedals, you can break them with an Etek.

I will make sure that the chain is covered with a thick sheet of steel from the scrapyard before any riding is to be done.

That's good, but the chain is actually one of the strongest and most reliable parts of a bike. Other things can fail too, like your bike's rear axle or rear dropouts. Or the bottom bracket spindle or the chainring or the freewheel ratchet. Or whatever. I don't know anything about the particulars of your bike, but I know it was built to be cheap, and not for maximum robustness. The only retail bicycles I have seen that are probably rugged enough to tolerate the torque, chain tension, battery weight, and high-speed bumps implied by your system are some BMX freestyle and dirt jumping bikes. None of those are physically large enough to fit your motor amidships as your photos show.

I assume you will be removing the pedals and cutting the arms from the crank before you run this bike. Please do so; otherwise the spinning parts will thrash your legs sooner or later.

You would be well advised to start with a frame that was originally intended for motor power, even if not a crank-driving Etek. Why not a moped with a wrecked motor? The chassis would be strong enough and the running gear would withstand the weight of motor and batteries you need.

Chalo
 
This is an interesting build, how do you mount all those batteries? If that frame is steel, it should be otherwise critical failure is sure to result at possibly the worst time. I also hope your u bolt clamps are just to line everything up, and then welded into final position. It shouldn't be too expensive to mount at least a Avid BB5 disc brake to the front, definately necessary. Other than that, what's wrong with a 60 MPH ebike? Lots of people drive 180 mph motorcycle, but rarely go over 100mph. :mrgreen:
 
coming from the "way too big of motor on a dangerously underbuilt bicycle frame" corner of the room I wish you the best of luck. I saw that build a while back and was pretty impressed. Though I am trying to beef it up a bit with three sets of disk brakes and a springer fork. I got this super thick leather jacket I want to do up ala road warrior, should keep me together allright. I second the whole disk brakes idea, mechanical disk at least.
 
novembersierra28 said:
This bicycle has taken me at least 5 months to complete to this late stage.

There is a freewheel inside the chainwheel allowing the pedals to remain still (or one can pedal).

Freewheels have relatively crummy, loose bearings. They work fine that way because in a normal bike, freewheels only turn when not under load from the chain. But on a bike where the freewheel spins under load like a Cyclone e-bike or a Da Vinci tandem, regular freewheels tend to self-destruct. With help from an Etek, yours will probably do so sooner rather than later. Be familiar with what happens when the freewheel literally disassembles itself and falls apart-- probably just a jumped or jammed chain, but try to anticipate the consequences.

Da Vinci beefs up the freewheels used in their systems by spot-welding the threaded bearing parts together so they can't loosen. This doesn't make the bearing last longer, but it does keep the freewheel from barfing its guts out.

would substituting the front forks make a difference? I might try this before I scrap a hardened steel frame (Raleigh make good ones).

According to specs I've found for the Raleigh Rave, it has a mild steel fork with a 1" steer tube. That's more prone to bending than a chromoly fork or one with a 1-1/8" steer tube. You also want to be sure to run the stem quill deep enough into the steer tube that its expander wedge is well below the steer tube's threads. If the stem is fixed too high, the handlebars can break away without warning. The only way to know with certainty how deep it needs to be is to take apart the headset and have a look at the outside of the fork steer tube.

The extra weight and higher speed of your bike will place much higher stresses on the fork than normal, but the motor drive will have no direct effect on it. In any case, you can only replace your fork with another 1" fork. A decent quality suspension fork (hard to find in the 1" size) would not be a bad idea, because it would save the bike some amount of beating as well as giving you more comfort at speed. A triple-clamp type fork would offer better strength and rigidity, but you'd have to mount a drum or disc front brake, or weld on some new brake bosses.

http://socalicustom.com/bikes/product_info.php?products_id=910&language=1
32608.jpg


I looked up information about the Raleigh Rave. It's a cheap bike with a cheap, probably Taiwanese but maybe Chinese frame. A cheap/crappy frame is not necessarily a weak frame! Sometimes it's quite the opposite. But you have to be discriminating about the details. (Certainly you don't want to have this conversion on a lightweight bike.) Note that your faith in Raleigh is misplaced-- that company name was sold to Derby Cycle in the 80s, and then Derby went broke and changed hands, etc. The Raleigh brand tells you nothing about a bike anymore except that the current owner of the name is trying to use it to get more money for the bike than it would be worth as a generic.

The Rave is a bike that retailed under $200 in 1999; in other words, it was the cheapest bike in the bike shop or one of the nicer ones at the department store. It had a "high tensile" steel frame, meaning mild steel, probably 1020 alloy. The good news is that a hi-ten frame is probably pretty stiff and will almost certainly bend before it breaks. The bad news is that it's likely to be poorly made and not particularly strong (but there are lots of exceptions).

http://www.bikepedia.com/Quickbike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=1999&Brand=Raleigh&Model=Rave&Type=bike
http://www99.epinions.com/bike-Bicycles-All-80509-Raleigh_Rave__1999

Anyway-- be careful, go easy on the bike, and if you can get your motor mounts and some reinforcements welded on instead of bolted, that would be a very good idea.

Chalo
 
Chalo said:
Freewheels have relatively crummy, loose bearings. They work fine that way because in a normal bike, freewheels only turn when not under load from the chain. But on a bike where the freewheel spins under load like a Cyclone e-bike or a Da Vinci tandem, regular freewheels tend to self-destruct.

Chalo


And this problem is solvable buy using a White Industries ENO freewheel from Sickbikeparts

KiM
 
novembersierra28 said:
I'd appreciate help with the contactor, and if anyone can give me a hand with the controller then I'll be their friend :)
I dont' know how to setup your contactor, as I don't use one.

For the controller, does it not work wired the way I wired my Curtis of the same series?
 
AussieJester said:
Chalo said:
Freewheels have relatively crummy, loose bearings. They work fine that way because in a normal bike, freewheels only turn when not under load from the chain. But on a bike where the freewheel spins under load like a Cyclone e-bike or a Da Vinci tandem, regular freewheels tend to self-destruct.

And this problem is solvable buy using a White Industries ENO freewheel from Sickbikeparts

The ENO freewheel comes only with sprocket teeth, not a flange designed to accept a full-sized front chainring or scooter sprocket. (it might not be a bad idea to suggest that to the folks at White Industries, though.) Either the freewheel or the chainring (or both) must be modified to be used as a crank freewheel. It's quite possible, but it's a risky retrofitting job on a >$100 part that some might find to be too much commitment.

Chalo
 
Chalo said:
The ENO freewheel comes only with sprocket teeth

Rubbish, White Industries make an ENO SPECIFICALLY for Sickbikeparts that is used FOR the front freewheel NO teeth, hence i recommended it.

http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=62&osCsid=10abb041de974c12d2d787598cfeacd4

It is exclusive to SickBikeParts cannot be purchased from any other ENO reseller..Perhaps actually check the link next time as there is a picture of the NO TEETH free wheel on the link i posted :-S

KiM
 
You're only as powerful as the smallest power limiting bottleneck. 5kw motor, 5kw controller, 1kw battery means 1kw performance. Even if the motor and controller were both able to do 100kw, with wimpy batteries, it's still going to be wimpy.

The E-tek spec sheet seems to be roughly the same power as something like the HXT rc motor, or a 3220 astro. It just runs at a lower RPM making the gearing setup easier to do, at the cost of weighing about 6 times as much.
 
novembersierra28 said:
I'm considering building a sidecar? any thoughts anyone?

I built a sidecar bike.

1768571051_ad095aa57d.jpg

chair1.jpg

chair2.jpg


Like all sidecars, it has a good turning direction and a bad one. I would not want to go very fast on it. When I let others ride it, they sometimes turn it over without meaning to. Take heed.

Trikes seem safe and stable compared to bikes, until you actually ride one. Sidecars are like that, only less safe and stable. They are acceptable, as long as you ride slow and steady inside your comfort zone and don't have to make evasive maneuvers.

Chalo
 
I love seeing the crazy stuff you build Chalo. You're a pretty neat guy. :)
 
AussieJester said:
Chalo said:
The ENO freewheel comes only with sprocket teeth

Rubbish, White Industries make an ENO SPECIFICALLY for Sickbikeparts that is used FOR the front freewheel NO teeth, hence i recommended it.

http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=62&osCsid=10abb041de974c12d2d787598cfeacd4

It is exclusive to SickBikeParts cannot be purchased from any other ENO reseller..Perhaps actually check the link next time as there is a picture of the NO TEETH free wheel on the link i posted :-S

Wow, that's a lot cheaper than the regular kind, too. Cool!

It wasn't that long ago that folks were poking holes in their 22t ENO freewheels to mount up larger sprockets. I'm glad to see that's no longer necessary.

Chalo
 
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