New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Be aware the speed sensor That was sent to me from pswpower was a splitter type and only contained 3 wires.. no purple !!!
I think there is a picture somewhere that shows where the purple wire is connected. Bugger
Would someone please let me know where the purple should be ?

Sorry guys after some more reading looks like all these colours may be wrong since there is no white wire which is needed for the speed signal.. oh crap. HELP :cry:

Can someone show me all the pinouts so I can starting hacking mine
 
jbalat said:
Be aware the speed sensor That was sent to me from pswpower was a splitter type and only contained 3 wires.. no purple !!!
I think there is a picture somewhere that shows where the purple wire is connected. Bugger
Would someone please let me know where the purple should be ?

Can someone show me all the pinouts so I can starting hacking mine
Click to expand...

Look here,.
And take care to use the correct descriptions..
https://github.com/hurzhurz/tsdz2/blob/master/pinout.md
 
tomtom50 said:
I think we are having the same problem. Editing the nominal voltage doesn't seem to affect the max voltage setting. The battery voltage has to drop to 55V before the assists works.
Click to expand...

I have given this much thought already, that is why I ordered the kt-lcd display for which Casainho is making a custom firmware. The best option for changing the voltage appears to be to run the custom firmware. I believe he stated that you must set the low voltage cutoff manually inside the firmware, but you can choose max battery voltage (by number of cells) on the display and also change the motor max amps on the display. I ordered my display on ebay for $30 after coupon, I figure I can probably sell my vlcd5 8pin display for that much. The biggest problem is that the connectors don't fit and the wires will need to be cut to attach the kt display.

You can also order a new 52v controller. You can probably sell your 48v controller on ebay. The 52v controllers are starting to show up at the retailers, and when ebay comes out with the next 20% off coupon you can get one there for about $60. They will get cheaper as more are listed for sale too, the 52v is hard to find at the moment. Some places are selling the 48v controller for $30-40.
 
John and Cecil said:
I believe he stated that you must set the low voltage cutoff manually inside the firmware, but you can choose max battery voltage (by number of cells) on the display and also change the motor max amps on the display.
Click to expand...
Maybe you didn't understand, but this week (see my last video and the wiki page with description of the flexible OpenSource firmware) I implemented the battery low voltage cut-off on LCD3 - so it is very easy to change on LCD!! You can even disable that check by setup a 0 value - but on that case you must count with your BMS protection.
 
John and Cecil said:
You can also order a new 52v controller. You can probably sell your 48v controller on ebay. The 52v controllers are starting to show up at the retailers, and when ebay comes out with the next 20% off coupon you can get one there for about $60. They will get cheaper as more are listed for sale too, the 52v is hard to find at the moment. Some places are selling the 48v controller for $30-40.
Click to expand...
The controllers are the same!! Just use our flexible OpenSource firmware to unlock the full voltage possible: 24 volts up to 52 volts battery pack!!
 
casainho said:
The controllers are the same!! Just use our flexible OpenSource firmware to unlock the full voltage possible: 24 volts up to 52 volts battery pack!!
Click to expand...

I know that Casainho. But they have to order the programming tool and an extension wire, then wire them up and figure out how to use windows to do something which they never did before. It is difficult and takes time for non-programmers. It might be easier and cheaper for some people to just order a new controller and swap them out, this way they don't need to order the cable and st-link.



On a separate note, has anyone tested the high voltage cutoff for the 52v controller? I am curious as to how much higher than 58.8v that it will allow. I know my 48v controller seems to work fine up to about 55.5 or so and I can get it to work up to about 57v so far.
 
Short video showing the half programmed 52v problem, and how to upload and save the profile for the fix...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10OLNCz4eGUjbEXojD1PfjVeCQTPgOnVe/view?usp=drivesdk

Here is a link to the 52v Program memory file:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11ftlg1ApGYq3AmzagL9M4wpY4c71sizK/view?usp=drivesdk

And then the Data memory file:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Yo2AqWrd7Adg2vV8HC5S5Zcgi53pwkcl/view?usp=drivesdk
 
Eyebyesickle,
Thanks!
Even a non-programmer like me could follow your video (just as I could follow your instructional) TSDZ2 Programming - from scratch
https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/tsdz2programmingfromscratch

And when you said just like new, well, for me better than new, because my 52V labeled TDSZ2 had a high voltage limit of 55V.
 
For the guys that got theirs motors to much hot up to the point that the motor stops for some minutes, did you found after that your motor did loose for ever torque??
 
tomtom50 said:
Eyebyesickle,
Thanks!
Even a non-programmer like me could follow your video (just as I could follow your instructional) TSDZ2 Programming - from scratch
https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/tsdz2programmingfromscratch

And when you said just like new, well, for me better than new, because my 52V labeled TDSZ2 had a high voltage limit of 55V.
Click to expand...

Great, I'm glad you could follow it, because it was a one take shoot, featuring my phone vibrating, and my Chihuahua on the background! Haha.

Yeah, TS sent out a whole batch of 52v misprogrammed... They seem to have put additional programming blocking the HVC, which is why now you have to reflash the program memory instead of just changing the values manually in the data memory.

Remember that you can still manually edit the current/amp value to squeeze a little more power into/out of the motor!!!
 
casainho said:
For the guys that got theirs motors to much hot up to the point that the motor stops for some minutes, did you found after that your motor did loose for ever torque??
Click to expand...


No, in my experience if the motor cuts off due to high temps it comes back fine...

Are you saying your Torque sensor is now faulty after a high temp cutout?
 
eyebyesickle said:
tomtom50 said:
Eyebyesickle,
Thanks!
Even a non-programmer like me could follow your video (just as I could follow your instructional) TSDZ2 Programming - from scratch
https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/tsdz2programmingfromscratch

And when you said just like new, well, for me better than new, because my 52V labeled TDSZ2 had a high voltage limit of 55V.
Click to expand...

Great, I'm glad you could follow it, because it was a one take shoot, featuring my phone vibrating, and my Chihuahua on the background! Haha.

Yeah, TS sent out a whole batch of 52v misprogrammed... They seem to have put additional programming blocking the HVC, which is why now you have to reflash the program memory instead of just changing the values manually in the data memory.

Remember that you can still manually edit the current/amp value to squeeze a little more power into/out of the motor!!!
Click to expand...

I heard your dog. Perform but get no credit, the life of a Chihuahua.
 
eyebyesickle said:
casainho said:
For the guys that got theirs motors to much hot up to the point that the motor stops for some minutes, did you found after that your motor did loose for ever torque??
Click to expand...
No, in my experience if the motor cuts off due to high temps it comes back fine...

Are you saying your Torque sensor is now faulty after a high temp cutout?
Click to expand...
Do you have any idea how TSDZ2 detects the high temp??

I will write another message to explain how I did burn my motor...
 
My motor did BURN
eyebyesickle said:
casainho said:
For the guys that got theirs motors to much hot up to the point that the motor stops for some minutes, did you found after that your motor did loose for ever torque??
Click to expand...
No, in my experience if the motor cuts off due to high temps it comes back fine...
Click to expand...
So, yesterday I got for the first time the high temperature cut-off of the motor while I was trying to discharge fully my battery and fast so the motor current was almost always over 15 amps.
Today I went to do another battery pack fully discharged and I noted that my motor was asking the same power as 900 watts but it was lacking some force/torque!! After some comparison with other ebike running with same TSDZ2, I found that my motor wasn't working properly and so I decided to open it:





So as we can see, some of the motor phase wires insulation seems that got very hot as also the motor metal parts are clear with a more dark/brown color. I would say the temperature was at least 100 degrees. And I think the magnets inside that motor did suffer some expressive demagnetization and so the loss of the motor torque forever. Here what I found only about this subject:

The Curie temperature of high-grade Neodymium (with added terbium and dysprosium) is 320C / 600F. However, common neo magnets are made from the cheapest grade, and can start to lose some of their magnetism at around 80C (170F).

E-bike motor magnets are a grade that is slightly higher than the cheapest variety, because they are often subjected to higher temps than they should be by unsuspecting customers. Years of posted experiments by real E-bikers on endless-sphere have produced a commonly held rule-of-thumb to avoid heating your E-bike motor to above 95C (200F).
Click to expand...
https://www.electricbike.com/motor-tech-learn-the-terms-part-1/

Next I went and exchanged the motor for a new one I had in stock and I got back the full torque of TSDZ2!!!!

So, my question is: how can we avoid motor heating TSDZ2 motor over like 80C to avoid losing forever motor torque/demagnetize the motor magnets??
 
the LCD3 is able to read temperature values...though I don't know how exactly. Perhaps adding in a temperature probe and cutting off/reducing the maximum power when it reaches a certain level?

I have a tank thermometer sensor I affixed into the motor casing with silicone caulk, but I haven't been cranking up the amps so haven't been monitoring the temperature for a while. It's a very manual process though (will attach photos when I am back home)
 
casainho said:
My motor did BURN
eyebyesickle said:
casainho said:
For the guys that got theirs motors to much hot up to the point that the motor stops for some minutes, did you found after that your motor did loose for ever torque??
Click to expand...
No, in my experience if the motor cuts off due to high temps it comes back fine...
Click to expand...
So, yesterday I got for the first time the high temperature cut-off of the motor while I was trying to discharge fully my battery and fast so the motor current was almost always over 15 amps.
Today I went to do another battery pack fully discharged and I noted that my motor was asking the same power as 900 watts but it was lacking some force/torque!! After some comparison with other ebike running with same TSDZ2, I found that my motor wasn't working properly and so I decided to open it:





So as we can see, some of the motor phase wires insulation seems that got very hot as also the motor metal parts are clear with a more dark/brown color. I would say the temperature was at least 100 degrees. And I think the magnets inside that motor did suffer some expressive demagnetization and so the loss of the motor torque forever. Here what I found only about this subject:

The Curie temperature of high-grade Neodymium (with added terbium and dysprosium) is 320C / 600F. However, common neo magnets are made from the cheapest grade, and can start to lose some of their magnetism at around 80C (170F).

E-bike motor magnets are a grade that is slightly higher than the cheapest variety, because they are often subjected to higher temps than they should be by unsuspecting customers. Years of posted experiments by real E-bikers on endless-sphere have produced a commonly held rule-of-thumb to avoid heating your E-bike motor to above 95C (200F).
Click to expand...
https://www.electricbike.com/motor-tech-learn-the-terms-part-1/

Next I went and exchanged the motor for a new one I had in stock and I got back the full torque of TSDZ2!!!!

So, my question is: how can we avoid motor heating TSDZ2 motor over like 80C to avoid losing forever motor torque/demagnetize the motor magnets??
Click to expand...

Wow...

The thing is, I am very surprised by this... I have pushed this motor time and time again and never burnt the motor like this... Is there any chance some of the code modifications as to how the controller applies power to the motor factored in? Or have I misunderstood and the power delivery is the same as stock controllers?

Just when I was thinking of upping the max programming to 20a =) - but this is really the first case I have seen of a motor actually burning...

I am going to look into what causes the cutout due to heat or if it is something just failing from the heat.. I was fairly certain it was purposeful temp cutoff, due to my motor coming back to life and acting normal as before...
 
eyebyesickle said:
The thing is, I am very surprised by this... I have pushed this motor time and time again and never burnt the motor like this... Is there any chance some of the code modifications as to how the controller applies power to the motor factored in? Or have I misunderstood and the power delivery is the same as stock controllers?
Click to expand...
The OpenSource firmware eventually may be heating the motor in a fast way, but I don't think so. What I did that now I know I should not, was to insist - I did turn off/on the system a few times and tried to keep run until I finally figured the cut-off was due to the high temperature and finally I stopped.

I never did run my motor like that, constantly at full power and I kept insisting when it cut-off.
 
If you can figure out how the temperature is being measured in the controller then you can show a warning on the screen. Sorry to hear you burnt your motor :(
 
pawepie said:
the LCD3 is able to read temperature values...though I don't know how exactly. Perhaps adding in a temperature probe and cutting off/reducing the maximum power when it reaches a certain level?

I have a tank thermometer sensor I affixed into the motor casing with silicone caulk, but I haven't been cranking up the amps so haven't been monitoring the temperature for a while. It's a very manual process though (will attach photos when I am back home)
Click to expand...
Yes, I now want to do what other systems implement: motor temperature reading and motor power reducing after certain temperature.
I thought the motor temperature was used because of nylon gears but now I understand that is also very important to avoid expressive demagnetization.
Also, I wounder if my nylon gear did fail because also of higher temperature - I remember I was riding at max power for long time when it failed.

I would like to seee your photos. I need to find a sensor and glue to the motor. Also maybe connecting to some free header pin on the motor controller (in the limit, to throttle connection).

So, motor controller can reduce the power as temperature increases. On LCD3 we should se the temperature as also define the start and end value of temperature, like: 65 degrees at start temperature and 75 at end value, where at middle (linear ramp) 70c, the power to motor would be cut in half/50%.
 
casainho said:
My motor did BURN
eyebyesickle said:
casainho said:
For the guys that got theirs motors to much hot up to the point that the motor stops for some minutes, did you found after that your motor did loose for ever torque??
Click to expand...
No, in my experience if the motor cuts off due to high temps it comes back fine...
Click to expand...
So, yesterday I got for the first time the high temperature cut-off of the motor while I was trying to discharge fully my battery and fast so the motor current was almost always over 15 amps.
Today I went to do another battery pack fully discharged and I noted that my motor was asking the same power as 900 watts but it was lacking some force/torque!! After some comparison with other ebike running with same TSDZ2, I found that my motor wasn't working properly and so I decided to open it:





So as we can see, some of the motor phase wires insulation seems that got very hot as also the motor metal parts are clear with a more dark/brown color. I would say the temperature was at least 100 degrees. And I think the magnets inside that motor did suffer some expressive demagnetization and so the loss of the motor torque forever. Here what I found only about this subject:

The Curie temperature of high-grade Neodymium (with added terbium and dysprosium) is 320C / 600F. However, common neo magnets are made from the cheapest grade, and can start to lose some of their magnetism at around 80C (170F).

E-bike motor magnets are a grade that is slightly higher than the cheapest variety, because they are often subjected to higher temps than they should be by unsuspecting customers. Years of posted experiments by real E-bikers on endless-sphere have produced a commonly held rule-of-thumb to avoid heating your E-bike motor to above 95C (200F).
Click to expand...
https://www.electricbike.com/motor-tech-learn-the-terms-part-1/

Next I went and exchanged the motor for a new one I had in stock and I got back the full torque of TSDZ2!!!!

So, my question is: how can we avoid motor heating TSDZ2 motor over like 80C to avoid losing forever motor torque/demagnetize the motor magnets??
Click to expand...

Did you have any forced airflow while discharging?
I'm sure running the motor at full chat without any forced airflow (like actual riding would produce) has contributed to the problem as heat would dissipate quicker with forced air exchange over the heatsink fins.
 
Hillhater said:
Look here,.
And take care to use the correct descriptions..
https://github.com/hurzhurz/tsdz2/blob/master/pinout.md
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link Hillhater
I was able to get my cable working and read the motor firmware !!
 

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casainho said:
My motor did BURN
eyebyesickle said:
casainho said:
For the guys that got theirs motors to much hot up to the point that the motor stops for some minutes, did you found after that your motor did loose for ever torque??
Click to expand...
No, in my experience if the motor cuts off due to high temps it comes back fine...
Click to expand...
So, yesterday I got for the first time the high temperature cut-off of the motor while I was trying to discharge fully my battery and fast so the motor current was almost always over 15 amps.
Today I went to do another battery pack fully discharged and I noted that my motor was asking the same power as 900 watts but it was lacking some force/torque!! After some comparison with other ebike running with same TSDZ2, I found that my motor wasn't working properly and so I decided to open it:





So as we can see, some of the motor phase wires insulation seems that got very hot as also the motor metal parts are clear with a more dark/brown color. I would say the temperature was at least 100 degrees. And I think the magnets inside that motor did suffer some expressive demagnetization and so the loss of the motor torque forever. Here what I found only about this subject:

The Curie temperature of high-grade Neodymium (with added terbium and dysprosium) is 320C / 600F. However, common neo magnets are made from the cheapest grade, and can start to lose some of their magnetism at around 80C (170F).

E-bike motor magnets are a grade that is slightly higher than the cheapest variety, because they are often subjected to higher temps than they should be by unsuspecting customers. Years of posted experiments by real E-bikers on endless-sphere have produced a commonly held rule-of-thumb to avoid heating your E-bike motor to above 95C (200F).
Click to expand...
https://www.electricbike.com/motor-tech-learn-the-terms-part-1/

Next I went and exchanged the motor for a new one I had in stock and I got back the full torque of TSDZ2!!!!

So, my question is: how can we avoid motor heating TSDZ2 motor over like 80C to avoid losing forever motor torque/demagnetize the motor magnets??
Click to expand...

Dumb question. Is it possible to overheat the magnets using external heat source? Like hot air gun for example. I guess the black outer casing and stator laminations would prevent the heat from reaching the magnets inside the rotor.
 
sysrq said:
Dumb question. Is it possible to overheat the magnets using external heat source? Like hot air gun for example. I guess the black outer casing and stator laminations would prevent the heat from reaching the magnets inside the rotor.
Click to expand...
What are tou trying to achieve??
 
Please, does anyone knows the hall sensors reference that are on the motor??
 
Maybe someone who has contacts with the TSDZ2 factory can ask if the motor (or controller) has any internal temperature sensors.

I am thinking of using a Mobilith SHC 220 grease or maybe SHC 100 to avoid friction and as such lower the operating temperature.
 
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