New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[Yanis]

So that's the first time I see something about an elusive TSDZ2C since a fb post a long time ago.
https://www.888bike.net/en/product/1549/greenpedel-tongsheng-tsdz2c
A better built TSDZ2 ? I'd love that. The TSDZ8 seems nice but I don't need the extra power and weight..

 

[Elinx]

.....
A better built TSDZ2 ? I'd love that. The TSDZ8 seems nice but I don't need the extra power and weight..

Without knowing what is changed with the Tsdz2C it is difficult to judge. The Tsdz2B was also an improved version, but most of the improvements were useless or even more worse than the Tsdz2.

 

[Yanis]

Without knowing what is changed with the Tsdz2C it is difficult to judge. The Tsdz2B was also an improved version, but most of the improvements were useless or even more worse than the Tsdz2.

Yep, agree. But since Tongsheng has recently shown with the TSDZ8 and TSDZ16 that they can make decently well made motors, there is some hope..

 

[dgc]

Interesting as the TSDZ2C mid-drive is not in the current Tongsheng product range it seems https://www.tongsheng-e.com/ts/product/midMotor or it being sold by 888bike with alternative optional parts. I will look on with interest my TSDZ2 and TSDZ2B's have served me well so far fitted with all the normal mods, OSF, extra shaft bearings etc etc. But can see perhaps some differences on the 888bike website.

 

[Yanis]

Interesting as the TSDZ2C mid-drive is not in the current Tongsheng product range it seems https://www.tongsheng-e.com/ts/product/midMotor

Right, but on the other hand they don't even list the TSDZ16

 

[Johhny81]

Hello everyone,

I am not new to electronics or settings, but I am experiencing two issues with my KT-LCD3 display and TSDZ2 motor.

My motor is running an open-source firmware from GitHub. I bought the TSDZ2 already modified with this firmware.

The first problem appeared suddenly after I disconnected the speed sensor while doing some maintenance on my bike. After finishing, I reconnected all the cables and connectors, but when I powered it on, the speed was no longer displayed. The KT-LCD3 shows 0.00 km/h all the time. I tried reconnecting the speed sensor several times, but without success. The motor works normally, only the speed is not displayed.

The second problem occurred recently when a child accidentally pressed some buttons on the KT-LCD3 remote (possibly the M button and the up/down buttons). Since then, I can no longer see the battery voltage displayed numerically. Previously, it showed values like 54.6V when fully charged and around 39V when empty. I checked the manual and all the settings from the GitHub documentation, but I could not restore this display.

If anyone could help me resolve these two issues, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you!

 

[Zambam]

Hello everyone,

I am not new to electronics or settings, but I am experiencing two issues with my KT-LCD3 display and TSDZ2 motor.

My motor is running an open-source firmware from GitHub. I bought the TSDZ2 already modified with this firmware.

The first problem appeared suddenly after I disconnected the speed sensor while doing some maintenance on my bike. After finishing, I reconnected all the cables and connectors, but when I powered it on, the speed was no longer displayed. The KT-LCD3 shows 0.00 km/h all the time. I tried reconnecting the speed sensor several times, but without success. The motor works normally, only the speed is not displayed.

The second problem occurred recently when a child accidentally pressed some buttons on the KT-LCD3 remote (possibly the M button and the up/down buttons). Since then, I can no longer see the battery voltage displayed numerically. Previously, it showed values like 54.6V when fully charged and around 39V when empty. I checked the manual and all the settings from the GitHub documentation, but I could not restore this display.

If anyone could help me resolve these two issues, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you!

On my TSDZ2 KT-LCD3 display, when displaying volts, a quick double press of the up button toggles it between volts and amps.

As for the speed display, try changing the distance between the magnet and the speed sensor until you get a reading.

 

[Johhny81]

On my TSDZ2 KT-LCD3 display, when displaying volts, a quick double press of the up button toggles it between volts and amps.

As for the speed display, try changing the distance between the magnet and the speed sensor until you get a reading.

I tried a quick double press of the up button, and it just increased the power assistance level by two steps. Any other ideas?

Regarding the speed sensor, I haven’t changed the distance since I performed maintenance on my bike. I’ll test that sensor in a couple of days. It should act like a switch when a magnet is nearby, right? I don’t understand why it has four pins, if I remember correctly. There should be a short circuit between two of the pins when I bring the magnet close, correct?

 

[Zambam]

I tried a quick double press of the up button, and it just increased the power assistance level by two steps. Any other ideas?

I gave you incorrect info. Try short/ long press of the up button to toggle between V and A.

 

[Johhny81]

I gave you incorrect info. Try short/ long press of the up button to toggle between V and A.

Doesn't work either. If I long press up buttron - turns on light (night mode). Short press up button - increase the pedal assistance level by one step.

 

[Zambam]

Doesn't work either. If I long press up buttron - turns on light (night mode). Short press up button - increase the pedal assistance level by one step.

It's a combination of short followed by long press of the up button. Like Da- Daaaaaa

 

[Zambam]

Here's a video I just made.
Starts with battery state, middle button cycles through the 4 groups which are:
4 pedal data
7 wheel speed
1 distance
3 battery state

Short-long press up button toggles V to A. V= 54.4, A= 0 (with NO power consumption)

Your groups may be different than mine depending on how it's programmed.

 

[Johhny81]

Here's a video I just made.
Starts with battery state, middle button cycles through the 4 groups which are:
4 pedal data
7 wheel speed
1 distance
3 battery state

Short-long press up button toggles V to A. V= 54.4, A= 0 (with NO power consumption)

Your groups may be different than mine depending on how it's programmed.

Thank you very much, sir! It works! You’re the man!
I really appreciate the effort you put into making the video.


Is there a setting that could be causing the issue where my display always shows 0 km/h while riding? Or is it definitely a hardware problem?
I should mention that I haven’t checked the speed sensor yet.

 

[Zambam]

Thank you very much, sir! It works! You’re the man!
I really appreciate the effort you put into making the video.


Is there a setting that could be causing the issue where my display always shows 0 km/h while riding? Or is it definitely a hardware problem?
I should mention that I haven’t checked the speed sensor yet.

Glad the video helped. I've run into both of your problems. I now carry a cheat sheet in the under seat pouch with instructions on what to do when it happens again.

The speed sensor is hall effect, not magnetic reed switch. It can move from shock/ vibration and stops working (happened to my bike in the past). The easiest thing to try first is move the wheel magnet further or closer to the sensor till you get a speed reading. If that doesn't work, then you can look into other trouble shooting steps.

 

[Zambam]

If you do not have a user manual already, this is the manual for my KT-LCD3 which may still be useful to you. Unfortunately, the KT-LCD3 can't display OSF version so you wouldn't know if it matches your's.

Note on page 3, Odometer Field, there are 9 groups (rows), 3 options (Options .1 .2 .3)

The middle button cycles through the groups (I have only groups 1, 3, 4, 7).

The upper button (short-long press) cycles through the options of each group.

Note: Options .1 .2 .3 in the manual is one digit off. If you re-number it to .0 .1 .2 then it matches what the KT-LCD display actually shows.

 

[Johhny81]

If you do not have a user manual already, this is the manual for my KT-LCD3 which may still be useful to you. Unfortunately, the KT-LCD3 can't display OSF version so you wouldn't know if it matches your's.

Note on page 3, Odometer Field, there are 9 groups (rows), 3 options (Options .1 .2 .3)

The middle button cycles through the groups (I have only groups 1, 3, 4, 7).

The upper button (short-long press) cycles through the options of each group.

Note: Options .1 .2 .3 in the manual is one digit off. If you re-number it to .0 .1 .2 then it matches what the KT-LCD display actually shows.

Thanks a lot for the manual, I really appreciate it.

The guy I bought the kit from sent me the manual from here. It looks like it’s for a developer or early firmware version. There’s no mention of accessing the menu with a short press of the on/off button—I actually discovered that by accident. But there was no way I could figure out the combination (short press + long press on the up arrow) to change the settings in that menu.

About the speed sensor, I’ve just ordered a new one from AliExpress (around $12), after trying several times to move the magnet closer to and further away from the sensor, but nothing happened. I hope the new sensor will solve the problem.

 

[Zambam]

During a bike ride, the TSDZ2 suddenly made a tremendous noise and it looks the motor support is less.
I think the cause is the clutch of the blue gear because if I only use human power, it's quiet, but I can hardly imagine that such a small clutch can make such a tremendous noise.

I have added two short sound samples (zipped)

Been a while. Did you open up the motor? What did you find?

 

[Elinx]

Been a while. Did you open up the motor? What did you find?

No, not yet. Only thing I have tried is to release the case, but the small hex screws are incredibly tight, so I couldn't get them loose without damaging them (I am sure that I have never tightened them so much).
There is no hurry for now because I have mounted a new Tsdz2B

 

[Zambam]

No, not yet. Only thing I have tried is to release the case, but the small hex screws are incredibly tight, so I couldn't get them loose without damaging them (I am sure that I have never tightened them so much).
There is no hurry for now because I have mounted a new Tsdz2B

An impact driver gun should get them loose.

My TSDZ2 at 3660 miles is still running fine. Just in case if it breaks I bought a TSDZ2B EDK01 from Varstrom as a backup over Xsmas. Still in the box. I did test it on the bench to make sure it’s not DOA.

How’s the TSDZ2B compared to the TSDZ2? Is it running OSF?

 

[Yanis]

No, not yet. Only thing I have tried is to release the case, but the small hex screws are incredibly tight, so I couldn't get them loose without damaging them (I am sure that I have never tightened them so much).

The case screws of the TSDZ2 are notoriously bad quality. You might have to cut a slot on them with a metal saw or a Dremel and use a flat screwdriver... and replace them with good Torx ones !

 

[Elinx]

An impact driver gun should get them loose.
...
How’s the TSDZ2B compared to the TSDZ2? Is it running OSF?

I have an impact screwdriver, but not yet tried, but I will do. On the new Tsdz2B I have them tighthed with antiseize, which I hope it is enough for the future.
The new Tsdz2B is running the latest OSF. The torque sensor is a bit less sensitive as the first Tsdz2 (range 98 vs 128). But after calibration it looks the same.
The only difference I feel is the difference between assist levels in power mode.
This needs some finetuning.
The old Tsdz2 was flashed with a very old version. The basic ADC step was 67 vs. estimated 57 and advanced 34 now. I don't know exactly which ratio I can use to equalize this. 67/57 is to little and 67/34 too much.

 

[Elinx]

...You might have to cut a slot on them with a metal saw or a Dremel ....

This is the main reason I didn't try yet. If the heads will break it will be almost impossible to remove them. I have already bought an impact screwdriver for the first try.

 

[dgc]

That's a new one on me, I have built a number of 36v TSDZ2s and the 36v TSDZ2Bs and still ride them and have had no problems with the screws, I run the OSF on them all to improve rideability, I did have to do additional mods on a 48v TSDZ2B to improve the torque sensor response, will see what my new 48v built does. If I was to replaced any screws I would put stainless ones in. So far I think from memory my first TSDZ2 goes back to 2018 in a Giant Anthem frame which is still running, with the OSF and bearing mods.

 

[Zambam]

This is the main reason I didn't try yet. If the heads will break it will be almost impossible to remove them. I have already bought an impact screwdriver for the first try.

Maybe there's Loctite on the threads? If so, try some heat from a butane torch to soften. If you strip a head, it can be drilled out.

 

[Elinx]

Maybe there's Loctite on the threads?....

No there isn't. I have opened the motor when it was new, just I did now with the Tsdz2B. In both cases to insert some heatpads between the stator and case. For me this is effective enough on flat windy roads.
With the Tsdz2 I had not used antiseize with mounting the case again, but with the Tsdz2B I did. Besides heatpads I add extra bearings on the spindle too.