09 bottle battery

[cwah]

I put some epoxy putty (milliput) on after a little scoring for purchase. Then put plastic over the frame and shaped the putty by fitting the bracket tightly in place. The difference is night and day, and I recommend anyone with this pack to do something similar. It will now hang on unaided, and with very little screw pressure it won't rock. Before the mod, Rocking it gave the sense I was pulling the fixings out, like a claw hammer pulls a nail. After the mod the lack of rocking gives the impression the screws are under a shear load, not tension. It's that different.

While I was there, I popped some holes in a rib to allow cable ties to be used. I also mildly greased the connector and heat-shrinked it. Leaving it's ties loose, to pull the plug up snug after it's mounted. It's a harsh environment, but that should do it.

Incredible, what epoxy did you use? I'd like to do the same because when I tighten some bolts it then makes it harder to insert!!

The cable routage is an inspiration for me. It has always been a mess for me, but seeing what you've done, it does look like I still have a lot to learn!

 

[cwah]

Is this one the speed sensor?

So I just take the red and black from the PAS and it should work?

 

[friendly1uk]

The white wire you circled is from the cable that goes to the controls. You want the white wire that comes from the motor cable

The epoxy I used is Milliput. It is a lot like chemical metal. Two part putty you mix in equal quantities. Once set you can drill and tap it. Few colours. Best thing is that you mix equal quantities, so I can weigh out tiny amounts. This is not the cheapest seller: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MILLIPUT-Black-Versatile-Epoxy-Putty-/250782828884?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN&hash=item3a63d24954



Despite appearances, I didn't mess up and set it in the wrong shape. It was my cables fouling. I had to fit the assembly with loose cable ties, then after fitting, use the ties to pull the cables into place. In the pic you can see the large connector is located by loose ties as I had some foresight. Just not enough. It was the other side that fouled lol.

You might want to use the putty differently. Fit everything to your bike as normal then push in pea sized amounts from each side. A bit like door stops. This way your guaranteed the correct fit, even if it is a little unsightly when the bike is upside down. A wet finger can really push it in place and smooth it over nicely. If I were to do the job again, I would do that. Score the sole for adhesion, and tape the frame to stop adhesion. Fit the mount and pack. Flip the bike over then push in pea sized amounts. Once set, remove battery and mount then trim up the pea sized lumps to remove excess.

 

[cwah]

Thanks for the details, i'll get some of this epoxy and play around.

The part of the motor I'm still not sure to understand. I've read your thread but it wasn't very clear.

Shall I open the motor in order to fit the speedo wire or do something else? It seems that my motor doesn't have a speedo wire.

 

[friendly1uk]

What 3 colours does your speed sensor use?
If it's a bmsb one, a link would be handy.

edit: you understand I added this: https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/661-king-meter-speed-sensor-ebike-kit.html ?

 

[cwah]

I don't have any yet, I was thinking it could come from the motor.

But I'm happy to buy a separate one, whatever it is, as I don't feel confident in opening the motor

 

[friendly1uk]

The geared motors with internal sensors only work while the motor is on. If you want a fully working speedo you need a wheel sensor. This is what I have done.



I have recently noticed adverts for this 09 battery that show the same hairline cracks in both of mine.

 

[cwah]

so I get a speedometer like this one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Waterproof-LCD-Bike-Bicycle-Computer-Odometer-Speedometer-/261573988329?pt=UK_SportGoods_CyclAcces_RL&hash=item3ce7064fe9

Cut the wire and then get the signal to the white wire (I circled in red) and the black one on one of the ground wire of the controller, and that should work?

 

[t3sla]

Forgot I subbed this thread, wanted to reply a while back. The cracking is present of all cases for this model, spoke with the case manufacture a while back and there isn't much they can do, do I'm guessing they have a huge stockpile and are waiting for the next batch to change mold pressing supplier. Anyway the case was OK after performing the 2 hour sub zero, followed by 1kg at 1meter ball drop test...

 

[friendly1uk]

You put a red circle round the wrong wire. You circled the white wire that goes to the front of the bike. You want the wire I keep showing. It leads to the motor cable.

I don't know how the proper speed sensor actually signals the controller, so i dunno how to fake it with a 2 wire one.


edit: Nice t3sla.

 

[cwah]

sorry I'm not very good and I admit I have some trouble to completely follow the wire you mention.

Which colour is it? Is it the double white one?

I'm really missing the point, have you added a speed sensor inside the motor, or was it already inside? If so, where?

 

[friendly1uk]

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/661-king-meter-speed-sensor-ebike-kit.html

 

[d8veh]

Cwah, look at the 9-pin motor wire that is joined to the controller. It has 3 phase wires, 5 hall wires and a white wire. Find where the white wire is fixed to the pcb. That's where you fix the signal wire from your speed sensor. If you have a three-wire speed sensor, you fix the other two to a 5v supply, i.e. the throttle or PAS red and black. If you have a two wire one, the other wire goes to any 5v, i.e. throttle or PAS red. It migh be that it goes to a ground, i.e. throttle or PAS black, so if it doesn't work on 5v, change it to a ground. Other ones I did this to worked on 5v.

 

[cwah]

Great make sense for the help both of you.

I'll get a speed sensor and mount it to a white wire from the pcb and the 2 others to the pas as I'm using it

 

[Xorin]

Great tread, I just got the S09 48V too.
I bought a ass cheap wired speedometer for the sense line mod ( ECHOWELL U4).
The sensor is a reed relay type (2 wires), so as the sense line is pulled up to 5v internal (resistor somewhere) this only need to be pulled down for a pulse.
So connected one wire to BLACK (ground ) and the other to WHITE (sensor).
It works perfect. Btw i use the WHITE wire thats in the Motor and hall bundle. As i was lucky to get the wrong wire setup (NOT the waterproof connector) as an extension to it.

So now I have another thing. As i got a OLD battery from another build but its a 36V 10Ah, but the same housing,
I can plug this in, is starts up normal but wont power the MOTOR as its below LVC (its a 36V) and its 48V controller.

The previous controllers auto adjusted to the new battery but apparently, not this one ? I know you can alter the LVC in software ( Value C12 but not much 2v + or - ).
So how to use this 36V as a backup to the 48V standard. WHERE is the G.D. LVC thing ? Software or hardware ?

 

[greg00]

I've been reading this forum for quite a while. It's time to get active, though my native language is not english.
This is a great thread. Thank you for showing these battery packs in detail, friendly1uk.
I'm also very interested in this 'bottle battery'.
Since you bought two different versions of this pack (Noname 48V10ah and Panasonic 48V11.6ah).
As I understand, the two packs have the same BMS, just different cells.
Obviously the Panasonic has 1.6ah more capacity but it's also 100$ more expensive (281$ vs 386$ - version with controller).
The Panasonic NCR18650PF should be a decent cell. Can you confirm that the one in the pack are genuine? If so the Panasonic should be safe for 2C while the other pack is only 1C.
Could you tell us more about the difference in performance you experienced?
Seeing your bad luck I'm also considering Pauls offer, even if they cost 50% more incl. shipping for 1 pack without controller (BMS Panasonic 402$ vs Paul's Samsung 29E 612$).
Since I need 2 batteries, the offer from BMS is really tempting because the shipping rate is also much lower. But on the other hand if they arrive broken ...

 

[cjh]

What is the overall width of this case?

 

[d8veh]

I also have both versions of the battery, plus one more with Sony cells from Aliexpress. The Panasonic one has cells marked Panasonic inside. It gives more capacity than the no name one. Nobody will know if it's worth paying the extra until we can see how long they last, which, hopefully, will be a long time in the future. The Sony one doesn't seem to give as much capacity as the Panasonic one and it goes down much faster at the end of its charge. I haven't done a full charge to empty test, but I've had over 400wh from the Panasonic one. It should go to about 550wh, but I think that's a bit optimistic even though I run at 15A max. These batteries can all do 20A without too much sag. I don't know how much higher they can be pushed.

All this doesn't really answer the question of which one gives the best value, but I would say that the Panasonic one would be a better bet if you want to go to 20A or higher. It also depends if the no name one can give you enough range. For me, the extra couple of Ah is critical.

 

[greg00]

@ d8veh
Thank you for the reply.
If the one marked Panasonic have more proven capacity, that's a good start. Let's hope it's the real deal because I'm about to order one.
Are you running the pack with built-in controller? If so, is it programmable to use max 15A and other things?
I'm still running an old Cute 100 at 36V on my stealth commuter and was considering boosting it to 48V with 15A limit.
For my MTB I'd like to install a mid drive with a second 'bottle battery' or just the mount to switch it.

 

[friendly1uk]

As in the photos, the Panasonic one does not say Panasonic on them anywhere. I have no reason to believe they are. The pack came broken and as such I have no performance data.

The cheaper pack is not 1c as it is only 10ah and gives more than 10 amps. I have it matched with the 20a controller designed to fit in the mounting bracket. I would say that is the limit though. It will run at 20 amps, but I wouldn't ask for more.
If it were Panasonic cells, 40 amp would be the limit. Nothing about Panasonic written on these packs though. It's bmsb, I didn't expect they would be real. They are just a better standard of cell. Remember if just one cell out of them 52 decides to fail, it's all scrap. That is a 2% failure rate. I expect a 2% failure rate, so I expect the cheaper one not to work very well. I'm not really interested in that gamble, but splashed out so we could all see what was really inside. Good job, as the better battery was doa. I tend to order double from them and half comes bust. You need to get your expectations checked before using bmsb for anything.

Paul also sells it with Panasonic cells. His say Panasonic on them, and it costs 50% more.


The dimensions are difficult. It's width varies. The battery pack is mainly 83mm, but the lower corner, on the non drive side of the bike, flares out a little, to meet the controller box. This has a larger footprint than the battery section. The plate is 58mm wide, and I have lost the controller box. Really... It's walked off. It has a 90mm sole from memory. Which seems to work fine with 68mm frames.

 

[d8veh]

My one and other ones I've seen have clearly marked Panasonic cells. Whether they're genuine is anybody's guess, but I have no reason to doubt them.

The integrated controller is 20 amps, which is too much for the old Q100, especially at 48v unless it's a 201 rpm (15 mph) one. A Q100H wouldn't add much to the bill and it's fairly easy to swap the cores, so you can get a bare motor so that you don't have to build a new wheel and it cuts down the shipping cost.

 

[friendly1uk]

Interesting. I have only seen the pictures published of two, and they were both like mine. What should it look like? You can clearly see mine are labeled with the 18650pf Panasonic model number, but no branding is present. They are on the last page.


This is of course very consistent. All my stuff comes from them wrong and broken, but you say yours comes fine. Polar opposites.

 

[d8veh]

You're probably correct. I was only looking for the difference between the two bateries to check that they had sent the correct ones. I thought I saw Panasonic, but it was probably the NCR18650PF marking that I saw.

 

[greg00]

I have a few genuine Panasonic NCR18650PF cells next to me on my desk and they also don't have any 'Panasonic' letters or logos on it.
Actually, they look exactly the same like the picture posted by the friendly1uk. That raises some hope.

 

[friendly1uk]

I have a few genuine Panasonic NCR18650PF cells next to me on my desk and they also don't have any 'Panasonic' letters or logos on it.
Actually, they look exactly the same like the picture posted by the friendly1uk. That raises some hope.

That's good news indeed. Thanks for sharing. Are you sure they are genuine though? I can't think why Panasonic would leave their name off them.It seems rather unconventional.