[$129 plus shipping, USA BASED] 48v 19.2ah 920wh 60A Li-Ion Battery 3200 mAh cells, 13s6p

[Admiralrofl]

P+ and P- pads, with separate C+ and C- means that you have both positive and negative wires for each port separately exposed there for connection to the outside world. In the typical cheap BMS we see in most non-OEM ebike packs, this means they're separate ports...but not always, even there. And in OEM packs like these, that marking can just be for the service manual / servicer to access and know what they are looking at, easier connection for factory builds, etc.

Is the C- (or C+) electrically connected to the P- (discharge) (or P+) pad (even if it is thru diodes), on the load side of the FETs? If it is, then they're both switched by the same set of FETs, and it's still a common-port BMS, and is designed to charge / discharge either way (simply using separate external cables for the easy install and wiring in the OEM device using these packs).

I can't tell from the visible circuitry in the images (as there are traces on the back I can't see, and I can't see the p/n's on all parts).

If there is no electrical connection, and there are separate FETs not seriesed together for charge and discharge, then it's a separate-port BMS, and it would be safer to not charge thru the discharge port and vice-versa.

I had trouble probing with a multimeter but I can say the c+ goes through those 3 smd components which are labeled d on the pcb so I’m guessing their diodes or pre charge resistors. then after there looks like a 10a fuse and then that trace after that appears to connect directly to the p+ trace. I’m wondering if that maybe you are right and it is a single port bms but they added this circuitry in purely to prevent sparking when it’s connected to a charger. It would make sense as these batteries are used in ve0 rental e-bikes that are charged a lot and it would be bad news if they charge port got carboned over from the frequent charging.

I am no bms expert. I tried to take some closer photos so maybe people with better understanding can rule in. I’d be happy to be wrong as it would make some wiring much simpler for me.

 

[amberwolf]

I'm trying to think of a functional test that would tell with certainty which BMS type it is, given the circuitry we can see there (since we can't see the back of the PCB); but I've been sick the last couple days and am too tired ATM to come up with one. I'll post again if I can think of one.

 

[Admiralrofl]

After studying the pcb a bit more closely it appears that while the p+ and c + are linked, the ground side is isolated from each other and it runs through a separate mosfet for the charge controlling. It doesn’t have a way to prevent overcharging through the discharge leads and so charging these batteries should always be done through the 2 smaller wires.

 

[tdiggs]

After studying the pcb a bit more closely it appears that while the p+ and c + are linked, the ground side is isolated from each other and it runs through a separate mosfet for the charge controlling. It doesn’t have a way to prevent overcharging through the discharge leads and so charging these batteries should always be done through the 2 smaller wires.

What is the connector called for the two smaller wires? Would this be an Anderson connector? If so, are there any other specifications I should look for when ordering an adapter to come off a charger with an XT60 male?

 

[amberwolf]

The smaller connector is not an anderson. There are several types of those such as PP (powerpole), SB, etc; they're all larger than even the XT connector.

I don't remember what it is called, however. It might be one of the various Molex types, or just one that looks similar. JST makes a bunch of types too, some of which resemble it.

 

[ERN]

Any of these left?

 

[AmericanElectricSolutions]

Any of these left?

yeah about 12

 

[Admiralrofl]

What is the connector called for the two smaller wires? Would this be an Anderson connector? If so, are there any other specifications I should look for when ordering an adapter to come off a charger with an XT60 male?

It’s a 2 pin mini molex

Molex 2 Pin Black Connector Pitch 4.20mm.0165" w/18-24 AWG Pin Mini-Fit Jr ™ (3 Completed Set) https://a.co/d/9cX0Y8D

But there’s enough cable to cut and solder on any plug you prefer. But not everyone has that skilset so you can buy the above and crimp your own adapter

 

[AmericanElectricSolutions]

It’s a 2 pin mini molex

Molex 2 Pin Black Connector Pitch 4.20mm.0165" w/18-24 AWG Pin Mini-Fit Jr ™ (3 Completed Set) https://a.co/d/9cX0Y8D

But there’s enough cable to cut and solder on any plug you prefer. But not everyone has that skilset so you can buy the above and crimp your own adapter

Thank you very much for the legwork on identifying this connector!

 

[tdiggs]

Arrived with exposed wires. What does everyone recommend I do?

 

[dougyj01]

Have a random question on these packs, If the charge port is a charge port, you can theoretically tie them together and charge via a 4a charger correct? I know i know, same age, same discharge etc. Just wondering if its possible safely.

 

[amberwolf]

If you mean tie the charge and discharge ports together and then charge thru both, that defeats the whole purpose of the charge port, which is to stop the charger from overcharging the battery in the event the BMS detects an out of limits condition.

For BMS (like this one appears to be) with separate charge/discharge ports, the C port can only block incoming current, and the D port can only block outgoing current. Any current flowing the other way can't be stopped by them regardless of the BMS trying to do so to prevent pack damage and potential fires.

So since the D port can't stop the current flow, even if the C port turns off, if say one of the cell groups was out of balance and already full, current would still flow thru it and it would continue overcharging and being damaged for as long as there is a difference in voltage between pack and charger...the BMS could never stop the charge process.

For BMS with common C/D ports, they're in series instead of parallel to the cells, so the BMS can turn either or both off to completely isolate the cells from outside current source or load as necessary. (the disadvantage to this is that the extra RDSon resistance of the seriesed FET set means greater wasted power as heat within the BMS)

 

[amberwolf]

If you mean tie two packs together via their C ports and charge at the same time with one larger charger...that depends.

You have to disconnect the D ports, or get backflow just like if you connected the D and C ports in parallel, and the BMS can't stop this.

If the two packs are dissimilar states/capabilities/etc for any reason (which will happen as they age even if they start the same), then their separate C ports will turn on and off as needed, making the full charger current available to either pack or sharing it between them based on internal pack resistances / charge states.

As long as the max charger current is no more than the max limit for a single pack, that's not an issue, but if it's greater than one pack can handle, then in the event of a low enough charge state for full current to flow, *and* one pack disconnects it's C port for whatever reason during this time, the other pack would have higher current than it's meant for. What happens then depends on what the limit is for--if ti's for the BMS FETs, they'll heat up more than they should, possibly more than they can handle, and could fail, or even desolder themselves and short things out. If it's for the cells, then they'll rise in voltage and heat up faster than normal, and this will age them faster. If the current is really high they could heat enough to fail catastrophically...but this is unlikely in a situation like this specific one.

 

[99t4]

Arrived with exposed wires. What does everyone recommend I do?

Notify the vendor immediately and request they address the situation.

 

[eee291]

I

Notify the vendor immediately and request they address the situation.

Its not a big deal in my opinion.
It happens very easily with silicon coated wires. I would buy some glue and smother the crap out of it.

 

[dougyj01]

If you mean tie two packs together via their C ports and charge at the same time with one larger charger...that depends.

You have to disconnect the D ports, or get backflow just like if you connected the D and C ports in parallel, and the BMS can't stop this.

If the two packs are dissimilar states/capabilities/etc for any reason (which will happen as they age even if they start the same), then their separate C ports will turn on and off as needed, making the full charger current available to either pack or sharing it between them based on internal pack resistances / charge states.

As long as the max charger current is no more than the max limit for a single pack, that's not an issue, but if it's greater than one pack can handle, then in the event of a low enough charge state for full current to flow, *and* one pack disconnects it's C port for whatever reason during this time, the other pack would have higher current than it's meant for. What happens then depends on what the limit is for--if ti's for the BMS FETs, they'll heat up more than they should, possibly more than they can handle, and could fail, or even desolder themselves and short things out. If it's for the cells, then they'll rise in voltage and heat up faster than normal, and this will age them faster. If the current is really high they could heat enough to fail catastrophically...but this is unlikely in a situation like this specific one.

This is what i was asking about, I have 2 in parallel. Hate to install switches but looks like that's the safest way, and fastest way to do it. Getting 2 of these are cheaper than buying "new" Amorge power custom, only issue is the added switch to power to battery while charging. Great batteries for the price. Think the next battery i buy will be custom after these 2 packs i have in parallel start to act funky and use separate in smaller toys. Thanks for the detailed explanation, i knew about the limitations was just hoping there was another answer instead of random people on the internet stating general information

 

[tdiggs]

I

Its not a big deal in my opinion.
It happens very easily with silicon coated wires. I would buy some glue and smother the crap out of it.

Glue specific for electrical applications or just anything to shield the wires?

 

[eee291]

Well since it's a fairly low voltage, I wouldn't expect any issues related to conductivity.

I'm in Europe so I don't really know what would work best, maybe flex seal?
I've used several adhesives like Würth and sikaflex on 100v DC with no issues.

 

[AmericanElectricSolutions]

Oh, sorry to hear about the damaged wires, the package must've been bouncing around during shipment and damaged them.

I would suggest buying a $7 liquid tape from either harbor freight tools, home depot or online, then coat the wires with it and wait for them to cure. That should fix the issue.

I can issue you a $7 refund to compensate your expenses. Please dm me about it

 

[gglockhart]

Hello again everyone, here's another battery deal that we are offering. We have about 30 of these and they sell out quick.
Identical size to the 15Ah one that I listed on this forum, just higher capacity cells.
Let me know if you have any questions.

Full specs and pictures below:

Condition: New, never used (batteries were stored in a warehouse since november 2022 so some degradation is expected, but not more than %5 or moneyback guarantee)
Manufacturer: SCUD
Enclosure and protection: Hard industrial plastic, scratch and impact resistant. Honeycomb cell holders and anti-vibration silicone between cells to reduce damage overtime. Water resistant silicone insulation. Metal screws holding together the cell holders and hard plastic shell)
Length : 9.87 inches ( 9 and 14/16 or 25.08 cm)
Height: 5.62 inches ( 5 and 10/16 or 14.28 cm)
Width: 2.81 inches ( 2 13/16 or 7.13 cm)
Weight: 8.7lbs
Voltage: 48v
Capacity: 19.2aH
Watt hours: 921
BMS: 60a (Low Voltage/Overcharge/Temperature/Current output and Short Circuit protection, power equalization output)
Discharge rate: 60 amps continuous 90 peak (920 continuous or 1400w peak)
Max Charge rate: 4a
Limited Charging Voltage: 54.6V
Charging time: 5 hours
Cycle life: ~800-1200 full charge and discharge cycles (gentle use) or 500-800 cycles if used regularly
Configuration: 13 series 6 parallel
Cell type: lg 18650 mh1 3200mAh
Amount of cells: 78
Chemistry: Lithium - Ion
Connectors: xt60 + 2 pin for battery meter

Does not come with a charger
View attachment 336865
View attachment 336862View attachment 336863View attachment 336864

Do you still have any for sell?

 

[jonsully]

@AmericanElectricSolutions are you guys making any 72V / 20S batteries?

 

[AmericanElectricSolutions]

Do you still have any for sell?

Yes sir!

 

[AmericanElectricSolutions]

@AmericanElectricSolutions are you guys making any 72V / 20S batteries?

Yes I do actually, on me the dimensions and I will quote you

 

[67RS427]

Anyone buy one of these and have good luck running it? I'm getting a measured 54v (on discharge lead) after a full charge to 54.6v. If I measure voltage at the charging port when fully charged I'm only getting as low as 44.7v, or sometimes just 5.6v difference right after charging. Why the difference in voltage between the discharge and charging port? Is this normal for a split BMS?

Also, with the battery at 51v under a 15A load, my voltage sags all the way down to 29.3v and obviously cuts out. This is a lot of sag for just a 15A/750w load. I'm thinking my battery has a bad cell or two, anyone else have a similar setup to compare to? Thanks!

*I think I might just open this thing up and install my own Smart BMS and test all the cells

 

[AmericanElectricSolutions]

Anyone buy one of these and have good luck running it? I'm getting a measured 54v (on discharge lead) after a full charge to 54.6v. If I measure voltage at the charging port when fully charged I'm only getting as low as 44.7v, or sometimes just 5.6v difference right after charging. Why the difference in voltage between the discharge and charging port? Is this normal for a split BMS?

Also, with the battery at 51v under a 15A load, my voltage sags all the way down to 29.3v and obviously cuts out. This is a lot of sag for just a 15A/750w load. I'm thinking my battery has a bad cell or two, anyone else have a similar setup to compare to? Thanks!

*I think I might just open this thing up and install my own Smart BMS and test all the cells

I was waiting for the SCUD techs in china to give me an answer about the separate voltages but just based on the sag alone I can see that you got a bad battery. We’ll send you a new one.

Please allow me a few days to work out the logistics, I think about 4-5 orders from members of our site had their shipping delayed due to Shipstation.com just voiding a batch of labels for no reason, which left the packages in a limbo.