12s bulk charging

[rborger73]

Ok so while I've read just about everything I could find I still want to make sure I'm clear before I start wiring this up. Here is what I have.

I have 4s 5000mah turnigy hard packs. I run 18 of them total in 2 packs. The triangle pack has 20Ah total made out of 12 hardpacks. Each in groups of 3. So 4 groups of 4s in packs of 3. 2 groups on the carrier.

These batteries.

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=18631.html

I have this charger.

http://www.hobbypartz.com/75p-1220-charger.html

And this power supply.

http://www.hobbypartz.com/73p-t350-power.html


I have plenty of 4s extension cables. I also bought accidentally while not paying attention 4s x 6 to 4s x1 parallel balance adapters. So I have plenty of 4s leads to cut up.

Now I want to do the Db25 connector 2 plug charge setup. I think I'll have to have 2 plugs per pack. One time to charge the main pack, one time to charge the carrier pack due to 20Ah (I believe) to be the max the charger can do at a time.

SO I need I guess to wire each pack of 3 4s made into 1 5Ah 12s pack to have 2 6s balance leads. Then parallel the 4 packs of 12s so I have 2 6s plugs. Which I'll terminate in a db25 connector. Then have the db25 connector leading to the charger terminate with 2 6s plugs.

So that is where I'm at. I am still having issues with the jst wiring and how to properly go from 3 4s jst plugs to 2 6s plugs without making an error. Every time I think I got it I read something that confuses me a bit.

ok IMPORTANT. PLEASE PLEASE do not talk about using a bms.. Please don't tell me RC chargers are toys. This is what I have and am going to use for the time being. Don't take this off track. Lots of people have these 4s packs and lets try to keep this a helpful discussion so everyone can learn.

So I guess firstly does anyone have a really good diagram that isn't confusing? There are some tutorials out there. Lets lay this out nicely so anyone can get it.

Oh and do not respond it you haven't read everything. I see this very often on this board. The OP ends up repeating themselves 20 times. I've read probably a few hundred hours on this forum. I think maybe Tench is currently finishing up his pack using similar but hasn't put up his diagram yet. This is a very important aspect of most peoples build and the most time consuming if you have to pull your pack apart to charge each ride. Makes it difficult to get out as often as you want.

So to summarize.

1. How to wire 4s bricks balance leads into 2 6s leads (or whatever is simplest).
2. Best way to parallel those packs then down to a db25 connector.
3. Wiring from db connector to two 6s jst plugs.
4. Don't wanna hear about bms or Rc chargers being toys, and PLEASE READ BEFORE REPLYING.

I've got to get my setup down to a simple process before it finally is warming up next week. Want to put plenty of miles on this before I make the Colorado move to make sure everything is perfect before I don't have a huge well equipped shop to work on it in.

 

[friendly1uk]

A 350w psu is a little weak for a 300w device. It will probably do, but I wouldn't of advised it. That 300w is output, and if it's about 85% efficient your 350w won't cover it.

I can't advise on the wiring. I won't be responsible. This is thankfully not my idea of bulk charging though, as you are using cell level protection. This is balance charging, a much safer option, but still... I will back out now. Best of luck though.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Most important item to have in the start is a Digital Multi-Meter (DMM). Even a cheap one is fairly accurate. If you don't have a preference, here is a $15 one: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=58251

Here's everything you need to know to understand the 4S and 6S JST-XH balance taps (JST = Japan Solderless Terminal):

http://www.tjinguytech.com/charging-how-tos/balance-connectors

 

[rborger73]

Most important item to have in the start is a Digital Multi-Meter (DMM). Even a cheap one is fairly accurate. If you don't have a preference, here is a $15 one: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=58251

Here's everything you need to know to understand the 4S and 6S JST-XH balance taps (JST = Japan Solderless Terminal):

http://www.tjinguytech.com/charging-how-tos/balance-connectors

I've seen these diagrams before. They only cover part of it though. I need to know the proper way to change 3 4s plugs into 2 6s plugs. Then need to I guess parallel the 4 pairs of 6s into 2 6s pairs which terminate in the db25. On a DMM I have a 250.00 meter I'm good. Its 15 years old now probably and still working perfectly.

I've read those pages but they don't cover something this in depth. This is also why I asked for it to be for this specific configuration as well. There are too many variables and too much risk to guess on things like this. This would likely help many people that are going to do it this way regardless of the naysayers to do it safely. It is very hard to keep a thread on track on this forum for some reason. lol This is what I have. This IS how I'm doing it. I'm asking to make certain there isn't a better way to configure the plugs. I'm also hoping to be able to run balance leads from each 4s brick to a separate panel so I can easily check each brick without pulling the packs apart. I've already got that wiring setup, but I also am not sure if it is possible to check them that way if the balance cables are paralleled down to the db25 connector. If it would read each battery balance cable from the others or not. If that makes sense.

 

[rborger73]

A 350w psu is a little weak for a 300w device. It will probably do, but I wouldn't of advised it. That 300w is output, and if it's about 85% efficient your 350w won't cover it.

I can't advise on the wiring. I won't be responsible. This is thankfully not my idea of bulk charging though, as you are using cell level protection. This is balance charging, a much safer option, but still... I will back out now. Best of luck though.

.



I don't understand why you think this isn't correct. It was the recommended power supply by the company. They make both items..

Balance Charger
Operating voltage: DC 11~15 volts
Charge/discharge power: max. 300/40 Watts
NiCd/MH: 1~30 cells
LiIo/LiPo/LiFe: 1~12 series
Pb: 2~24V
Charge current: 0.1 to 20.0A
Discharge current: 0.1 to 5.0A

Power supply
Specifications:
Input Voltage Range: 100-240Volts AC
Output Voltage Range: 15-15.5Volts DC
Input Frequency: 50/60Hz
Output Current: 0-23Amps
Power: 350 Watts
Efficiency: 88%


It actually is more than the charger needs by specs..

 

[wesnewell]

Here's 2 diagrams of the same thing shown 2 ways.
View attachment 1
With each 12s pack the first thing to do is use 4s parallel balance cables and parallel the balance cables. Don't modify the original 4s packs at all so they can be replaced individually if need be. Color code the plugs black for low side, red for high side, and leave the middle ones white or another color, so you know how to plug them together again. Now remove them and cut the 4s plug off the 3 parallel balance cables and use those wires to splice into 2 6s plugs per the diagrams. Now color code the 6s plugs with red for high side and black for low side. That's all there is to it. You can then plug those into the charger to charge as 12s. It doesn't matter if you are doing 2p, 4p, or 6p, it all wires the same. And the charger isn't limited to 20ah. It can charge any 12s pack regardless of the ah. It will just take longer the larger the ah. A 20ah pack is 888wh so about 3 hours to fully charge it from empty. Watch the youtube tutorial for setting the amperage for each size pack.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thunder+1220&sm=12
As for wiring a DB25 connector, just make sure each wire goes to the same wire on the other side. That's 13 wires for the balance leads and then use multiple wires for the main leads. With 12 left over, you could use 6 for pos and 6 for neg. 24awg wire is good for 3.5A, so as long as you use at least 24awg on the db25's then you can't exceed the 20A rating of the charger. 6*3.5=21A.

 

[rborger73]

Here's 2 diagrams of the same thing shown 2 ways.
View attachment 1
With each 12s pack the first thing to do is use 4s parallel balance cables and parallel the balance cables. Don't modify the original 4s packs at all so they can be replaced individually if need be. Color code the plugs black for low side, red for high side, and leave the middle ones white or another color, so you know how to plug them together again. Now remove them and cut the 4s plug off the 3 parallel balance cables and use those wires to splice into 2 6s plugs per the diagrams. Now color code the 6s plugs with red for high side and black for low side. That's all there is to it. You can then plug those into the charger to charge as 12s. It doesn't matter if you are doing 2p, 4p, or 6p, it all wires the same. And the charger isn't limited to 20ah. It can charge any 12s pack regardless of the ah. It will just take longer the larger the ah. A 20ah pack is 888wh so about 3 hours to fully charge it from empty. Watch the youtube tutorial for setting the amperage for each size pack.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thunder+1220&sm=12
As for wiring a DB25 connector, just make sure each wire goes to the same wire on the other side. That's 13 wires for the balance leads and then use multiple wires for the main leads. With 12 left over, you could use 6 for pos and 6 for neg. 24awg wire is good for 3.5A, so as long as you use at least 24awg on the db25's then you can't exceed the 20A rating of the charger. 6*3.5=21A.

Think your first diagram got it to sink it. First I'd seen the pos to neg like that. Now it makes sense. I bought a bunch of red, black, and yellow 22awg soft silicone like most balance cables have. Good news on the charger so that way I can do one set of cables I remember where I saw that 20Ah limit and it was someone on a forum saying it, but I see they were confused and saw the 20A limit and thought it was Ah.

How about being able to run 4s extensions and being able to check individual 4s bricks while still having them paralleled together and hooked to the db25 setup? Will it show an average on the single extension, or show one 4s brick?

 

[rborger73]

Btw is that charger capable of running sans balance cables? So if I added a charge port on the input side of my speedict would it charge at 12s voltage to dump in a quick boost? Say I ran a quick 10 miles but just wanted to pop the charge leads on and I was nowhere near to a full charge level. Just want to add a bit to the tank before I go out. Not mentioned in the manual but seems possible. I thought you were saying you have this charger as well but maybe I was assuming that. I know it isn't safe and 95% of the time I'll be balance charging, but if circumstances come up do you know what settings I have to use? I haven't done anything more than one 4s brick at a time since I haven't had a chance to get the wiring figured out yet.

 

[wesnewell]

When you parallel cells they quickly equalize, so you can't check individual cells that way. IFAIK all rc chargers will charge without hooking up the balance cables. Both of mine will, Hyperion 1420I, and cheap imax B6. If you have the charger, try charging a single brick without hooking up the balance cable. That will tell you.

 

[rborger73]

Think I'll give it a shot. I have speedict so I can monitor where the pack is at while it charges. I was afraid of that on the individual bricks. I wonder if there is a work around at all possible. I'm not against a bms in the future but for now with the way I charge this seems the best way. I'll just have to unhook each 4s lead off the brick for checking every few days I suppose.

 

[wesnewell]

I haven't checked individual bricks since I put my current pack together almost 2 years and 6K miles ago. If something goes wrong, you'll notice it when charging.

 

[rborger73]

I haven't checked individual bricks since I put my current pack together almost 2 years and 6K miles ago. If something goes wrong, you'll notice it when charging.

I think I've read too many fear monger posts and it made me set aside commonsense. lol So excellent bulk charging works fine with no balance leads on that charger. I also need to calibrate my speedict. It is running about .75 volts higher than actual voltage according to my meter and the charger. Explains a couple things. I'll probably even it out and adjust it down by .50. Split the difference. So hooked up the speedict as it was bulk charging. Sadly the bluetooth disconnects about 10ft too soon for me to monitor it by bringing it with me. But its a tablet and I can access it via wifi and output the screen to my laptop while also streaming a video feed to watch it. I do this even balance charging. lol

I charged from 46v to just shy of 48v in about 20 minutes pushing 6A. Watching with a cellog each brick as it was charging they all stay about .01 within as charging max .03 and that is usually only for a second. I was just charging the 10Ah pack alone first. Going to wire up a charge port for ease of charging tonight. Next step get the db25 all setup so I can finish building the rear carrier box and be done with this thing in a week or two. Thanks mucho. I've seen you answer this before and read it but it is one of those things you just don't want to screw up. lol

 

[friendly1uk]

A 350w psu is a little weak for a 300w device. It will probably do, but I wouldn't of advised it. That 300w is output, and if it's about 85% efficient your 350w won't cover it.

I can't advise on the wiring. I won't be responsible. This is thankfully not my idea of bulk charging though, as you are using cell level protection. This is balance charging, a much safer option, but still... I will back out now. Best of luck though.

.



I don't understand why you think this isn't correct. It was the recommended power supply by the company. They make both items..

Balance Charger
Operating voltage: DC 11~15 volts
Charge/discharge power: max. 300/40 Watts
NiCd/MH: 1~30 cells
LiIo/LiPo/LiFe: 1~12 series
Pb: 2~24V
Charge current: 0.1 to 20.0A
Discharge current: 0.1 to 5.0A

Power supply
Specifications:
Input Voltage Range: 100-240Volts AC
Output Voltage Range: 15-15.5Volts DC
Input Frequency: 50/60Hz
Output Current: 0-23Amps
Power: 350 Watts
Efficiency: 88%


It actually is more than the charger needs by specs..

Your charger puts out 300w. How much do you think it consumes. It needs to put out 300w, and light some leds, run some electronics and warm the environment while covering switchmode losses that could be a similar 88%.
350w might, and I mean might just cover it. Where is the 10% headroom though? At the very least it is maxed out. They just said it because they're in sales. The fact it has a fan should be ringing alarm bells. It's shoddy. We need to hear from someone that has one before trying to run it so close to the limit (perhaps beyond) for any length of time.


The last time I heard someone ask if they could bulk charge with one of these things, somebody said yes, and now they have no house. This thread won't be the example your expecting if you can't be arsed to push a balance connector in. After going to all the trouble of wiring up a D plug, not using it would score as a mental health issue.

 

[rborger73]

A 350w psu is a little weak for a 300w device. It will probably do, but I wouldn't of advised it. That 300w is output, and if it's about 85% efficient your 350w won't cover it.

I can't advise on the wiring. I won't be responsible. This is thankfully not my idea of bulk charging though, as you are using cell level protection. This is balance charging, a much safer option, but still... I will back out now. Best of luck though.

.



I don't understand why you think this isn't correct. It was the recommended power supply by the company. They make both items..

Balance Charger
Operating voltage: DC 11~15 volts
Charge/discharge power: max. 300/40 Watts
NiCd/MH: 1~30 cells
LiIo/LiPo/LiFe: 1~12 series
Pb: 2~24V
Charge current: 0.1 to 20.0A
Discharge current: 0.1 to 5.0A

Power supply
Specifications:
Input Voltage Range: 100-240Volts AC
Output Voltage Range: 15-15.5Volts DC
Input Frequency: 50/60Hz
Output Current: 0-23Amps
Power: 350 Watts
Efficiency: 88%


It actually is more than the charger needs by specs..

Your charger puts out 300w. How much do you think it consumes. It needs to put out 300w, and light some leds, run some electronics and warm the environment while covering switchmode losses that could be a similar 88%.
350w might, and I mean might just cover it. Where is the 10% headroom though? At the very least it is maxed out. They just said it because they're in sales. The fact it has a fan should be ringing alarm bells. It's shoddy. We need to hear from someone that has one before trying to run it so close to the limit (perhaps beyond) for any length of time.


The last time I heard someone ask if they could bulk charge with one of these things, somebody said yes, and now they have no house. This thread won't be the example your expecting if you can't be arsed to push a balance connector in. After going to all the trouble of wiring up a D plug, not using it would score as a mental health issue.

Dude you are an odd one. Firstly you do realize that R/C is what pushed the market long before ebikes or ev right? Your constant calling R/C toys gets annoying. Some of these "toys" cost way more than most of our ebikes and fly thousands of feet in the air. These R/C guys are in many ways more serious and intent than ebikers. I grew up around them for both racing R/C cars and flying R/C planes. I specifically asked to not have this crap brought up. Secondly I research every product and check all reviews long before I push the buy button.

The charger has a fan. The power supply has a fan. Neither of them even charging the 30Ah of 12s for an hour got more than slightly warm. Also you don't have reading comprehension. I haven't yet setup the db connector. Until I do I am bulk charging. I'm not a friggin idiot and I've relayed this to you several times now. When I'm charging I don't leave the area. I check each balance lead every 10 minutes to verify everything is balancing fine. Please sell your "High end EV chargers" and "You must use a bms" crap someplace else. I've said a dozen times I'm not against it, but I already decided my direction and route. I don't get the deal on this forum. Handful of people that simply want to be contrary and go off track on something that has nothing to do with the original thread topic.

I also charge in a safe place. Palleasseee... stop derailing my threads with talk of bms and high quality ev chargers and how R/C are toys. I'm not trying to be snippy here but what dafaq. I specifically asked to NOT do that. The power supply is rated higher than the charger and I'm not maxing out the Amps when charging. I'm charging at 6amps well below the max Charging C rate. And if either of them die on me I'll replace them. Maybe I'll switch at that time, BUT for now.. this is what I'm using. R/C people use this equipment all the time pushing higher amps for faster chargers. I'm wondering if you have ever been to a R/C track when there are competitions? These people would smack you in the mouth if you told them their equipment was all toys. Anyways makes it very difficult when anytime I put up a thread instead of learning something I ASKED ABOUT I get the peanut gallery telling me everything I asked them NOT to. If you don't use this setup, aren't interested in this setup, then just don't post. Kay? Thx. I've tried to be nice about replying over and over to the same crap that the majority does not agree with you on.

Battery charge rate is 5c I charge at a little over 1c at 6A. The highest I'll likely charge would be 10A. I don't think I'm maxing anything out..

 

[999zip999]

Group forum.

 

[rborger73]

Group forum.

Eh? Not sure what you mean here.

 

[friendly1uk]

Dude you are an odd one. Firstly you do realize that R/C is what pushed the market long before ebikes or ev right? Your constant calling R/C toys gets annoying. Some of these "toys" cost way more than most of our ebikes and fly thousands of feet in the air. These R/C guys are in many ways more serious and intent than ebikers. I grew up around them for both racing R/C cars and flying R/C planes. I specifically asked to not have this crap brought up. Secondly I research every product and check all reviews long before I push the buy button.

The charger has a fan. The power supply has a fan. Neither of them even charging the 30Ah of 12s for an hour got more than slightly warm. Also you don't have reading comprehension. I haven't yet setup the db connector. Until I do I am bulk charging. I'm not a friggin idiot and I've relayed this to you several times now. When I'm charging I don't leave the area. I check each balance lead every 10 minutes to verify everything is balancing fine. Please sell your "High end EV chargers" and "You must use a bms" crap someplace else. I've said a dozen times I'm not against it, but I already decided my direction and route. I don't get the deal on this forum. Handful of people that simply want to be contrary and go off track on something that has nothing to do with the original thread topic.

I also charge in a safe place. Palleasseee... stop derailing my threads with talk of bms and high quality ev chargers and how R/C are toys. I'm not trying to be snippy here but what dafaq. I specifically asked to NOT do that. The power supply is rated higher than the charger and I'm not maxing out the Amps when charging. I'm charging at 6amps well below the max Charging C rate. And if either of them die on me I'll replace them. Maybe I'll switch at that time, BUT for now.. this is what I'm using. R/C people use this equipment all the time pushing higher amps for faster chargers. I'm wondering if you have ever been to a R/C track when there are competitions? These people would smack you in the mouth if you told them their equipment was all toys. Anyways makes it very difficult when anytime I put up a thread instead of learning something I ASKED ABOUT I get the peanut gallery telling me everything I asked them NOT to. If you don't use this setup, aren't interested in this setup, then just don't post. Kay? Thx. I've tried to be nice about replying over and over to the same crap that the majority does not agree with you on.

Battery charge rate is 5c I charge at a little over 1c at 6A. The highest I'll likely charge would be 10A. I don't think I'm maxing anything out..

Man, I'm not reading that. Is it time of the month? I have not said the word toy once, or uttered a word about the bms subject your stamping your feet about. I have simply told you the psu is too small. Over and over. Do you need to read another thread where more people are telling you to over spec the psu as much as 50% http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=28934
Don't give me that crap about continuity either. I know it's not fitted, I can read that as well as I can read your little storys about why you might want to bulk charge, which has no bearing at all on the D plug being fitted.

Buy a proper hat

 

[rborger73]

Dude you are an odd one. Firstly you do realize that R/C is what pushed the market long before ebikes or ev right? Your constant calling R/C toys gets annoying. Some of these "toys" cost way more than most of our ebikes and fly thousands of feet in the air. These R/C guys are in many ways more serious and intent than ebikers. I grew up around them for both racing R/C cars and flying R/C planes. I specifically asked to not have this crap brought up. Secondly I research every product and check all reviews long before I push the buy button.

The charger has a fan. The power supply has a fan. Neither of them even charging the 30Ah of 12s for an hour got more than slightly warm. Also you don't have reading comprehension. I haven't yet setup the db connector. Until I do I am bulk charging. I'm not a friggin idiot and I've relayed this to you several times now. When I'm charging I don't leave the area. I check each balance lead every 10 minutes to verify everything is balancing fine. Please sell your "High end EV chargers" and "You must use a bms" crap someplace else. I've said a dozen times I'm not against it, but I already decided my direction and route. I don't get the deal on this forum. Handful of people that simply want to be contrary and go off track on something that has nothing to do with the original thread topic.

I also charge in a safe place. Palleasseee... stop derailing my threads with talk of bms and high quality ev chargers and how R/C are toys. I'm not trying to be snippy here but what dafaq. I specifically asked to NOT do that. The power supply is rated higher than the charger and I'm not maxing out the Amps when charging. I'm charging at 6amps well below the max Charging C rate. And if either of them die on me I'll replace them. Maybe I'll switch at that time, BUT for now.. this is what I'm using. R/C people use this equipment all the time pushing higher amps for faster chargers. I'm wondering if you have ever been to a R/C track when there are competitions? These people would smack you in the mouth if you told them their equipment was all toys. Anyways makes it very difficult when anytime I put up a thread instead of learning something I ASKED ABOUT I get the peanut gallery telling me everything I asked them NOT to. If you don't use this setup, aren't interested in this setup, then just don't post. Kay? Thx. I've tried to be nice about replying over and over to the same crap that the majority does not agree with you on.

Battery charge rate is 5c I charge at a little over 1c at 6A. The highest I'll likely charge would be 10A. I don't think I'm maxing anything out..

Man, I'm not reading that. Is it time of the month? I have not said the word toy once, or uttered a word about the bms subject your stamping your feet about. I have simply told you the psu is too small. Over and over. Do you need to read another thread where more people are telling you to over spec the psu as much as 50% http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=28934
Don't give me that crap about continuity either. I know it's not fitted, I can read that as well as I can read your little storys about why you might want to bulk charge, which has no bearing at all on the D plug being fitted.

Buy a proper hat

After going to all the trouble of wiring up a D plug, not using it would score as a mental health issue.

That has bearing on the d plug being fitted. lol

And the company that makes the charger recommends that power supply... As well it isn't even getting remotely warm and having no issues. Never asked any advice on the equipment. I said specifically this is what I have, this is what I'm using. Please as well direct me to this particular PSU causing a fire as you indicated.

Anyways Thanks Wesnewell much further along now.

 

[dogman dan]

Never said toy this thread,,,,

FWIW, I've run two 150w chargers for years now on a 350w ps. It's a knock off of a meanwell, not even a real meanwell. But I agree, if the PS is really only able to run at 200w, then you have a problem. One easy to solve with a different brand PS.

In any case, if you are concerned about it, these "toy chargers" can be set to any wattage you prefer. You could set it to less amps, and reduce the wattage that way.

 

[spinningmagnets]

I am not familiar with this charger, that being said...Manufacturer and retail advertisements are sometimes vague and misleading. Power supplies are usually cheaper than the chargers, and if the PS is larger and more robust, then it is unlikely to ever wear out, since they are a pretty simple device. The chargers are more complex, and have many points where the assembly line resulted in a weak connection somewhere in its guts.

Balance-charging 95% of the time is a good thing. I would suggest that bulk charging every day, and then balance-charging once a week is adequate for LiPo health (on the week-end), just my opinion. Ever since I melted my first PS, I now try out new devices at a low power level (like you indicated you will also do), and then creep up on a faster charge to find the level that I am comfortable with. Or...at the very least I will know the lowest power level at which it fried.

The feature-set on this charger looks good, so...I will be looking forward to your report on daily usage. I suspect a lot of new builders are curious about a basic starter 12S charging set-up, and this looks like a contender. If you ever want to upgrade to a "buy it once" PS, contact icecube57/Christopher Parham on ES facebook.

 

[rborger73]

Does the fact I'm never likely to charge at more of a 6 to 10A rate make a difference? So far it is performing wonderfully. I've been playing with the bulk charging. I check the cell level balance on each battery every 15 mins or so till I make sure they are charging nice and even. I will get the db25 setup finished probably this week anyways. While I'd love to be able to charge super fast, isn't battery life likely to last longer charging at lower amps? I made a little pvc box the charger and psu fit into (yes the top is exposed and the fans have holes cut out so there is no resistance) and it slides into the back padded part of my backpack. Worse case riding around here is I know enough people in the area I could stop and charge up quick to get home. Though shouldn't happen too often with 30Ah on board. Only time I've got stranded is when I left MP3 set to 48 volt and had plenty left on the pack for 12s to fine. lol Didn't have a laptop or the cable with me. With an mp3 if you don't need a lvc just set it to 24v fyi.

 

[rborger73]

Never said toy this thread,,,,

FWIW, I've run two 150w chargers for years now on a 350w ps. It's a knock off of a meanwell, not even a real meanwell. But I agree, if the PS is really only able to run at 200w, then you have a problem. One easy to solve with a different brand PS.

In any case, if you are concerned about it, these "toy chargers" can be set to any wattage you prefer. You could set it to less amps, and reduce the wattage that way.

Missed this comment. Ya I don't run anything at full tilt. To me the charger is more important than the psu. The power supply is cheap. I'd rather under power and charge slower and save the stress on the charger and batteries. 65.00 psu 100.00 charger 4 or 500 in batteries. I bought more Ah so I could leave plenty in the tank for my normal runs. Which means I don't deep discharge. Which means I usually won't take that long to charge up. Which means I don't need to crank the charge in super fast 9 out of 10 times. I have a second bike as well so only time this might happen is out on the road on occasion that I'd want to charge at full power.

As far as him not saying "toy" I think we all know his modus operandi. Which wasn't really my issue, it was more that I said this is what I have I'm using it for now so don't divert the thread off topic. (which ya.. of course it has) See this while reading on here all the time. Some posters have a certain pet subject they like to drag into every thread even if asked not to. lol Anyways gonna start on the DB plug at some point in the next day or two.

 

[rborger73]

I am not familiar with this charger, that being said...Manufacturer and retail advertisements are sometimes vague and misleading. Power supplies are usually cheaper than the chargers, and if the PS is larger and more robust, then it is unlikely to ever wear out, since they are a pretty simple device. The chargers are more complex, and have many points where the assembly line resulted in a weak connection somewhere in its guts.

Balance-charging 95% of the time is a good thing. I would suggest that bulk charging every day, and then balance-charging once a week is adequate for LiPo health (on the week-end), just my opinion. Ever since I melted my first PS, I now try out new devices at a low power level (like you indicated you will also do), and then creep up on a faster charge to find the level that I am comfortable with. Or...at the very least I will know the lowest power level at which it fried.

The feature-set on this charger looks good, so...I will be looking forward to your report on daily usage. I suspect a lot of new builders are curious about a basic starter 12S charging set-up, and this looks like a contender. If you ever want to upgrade to a "buy it once" PS, contact icecube57/Christopher Parham on ES facebook.

Think one of the Docs uses the Thunder 1220 on his trikes and said he hadn't had any problems with it. I'm probably going to order a second once I switch from the internal controller on the mp3 to an external. Want to be able to run 12s for commuting and 24s for the fun and short runs, so seems easy enough to just add a second. Then at that point I'd be looking at a much larger psu. I also have a Imax B6 and a psu for it as well. I like how light the 1220 and t350 are. Lets me put a 12s charger in my backpack without hardly knowing its there. Anyways so far so good.

 

[cal3thousand]

A 350w psu is a little weak for a 300w device. It will probably do, but I wouldn't of advised it. That 300w is output, and if it's about 85% efficient your 350w won't cover it.

I can't advise on the wiring. I won't be responsible. This is thankfully not my idea of bulk charging though, as you are using cell level protection. This is balance charging, a much safer option, but still... I will back out now. Best of luck though.

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I don't understand why you think this isn't correct. It was the recommended power supply by the company. They make both items..

Balance Charger
Operating voltage: DC 11~15 volts
Charge/discharge power: max. 300/40 Watts
NiCd/MH: 1~30 cells
LiIo/LiPo/LiFe: 1~12 series
Pb: 2~24V
Charge current: 0.1 to 20.0A
Discharge current: 0.1 to 5.0A

Power supply
Specifications:
Input Voltage Range: 100-240Volts AC
Output Voltage Range: 15-15.5Volts DC
Input Frequency: 50/60Hz
Output Current: 0-23Amps
Power: 350 Watts
Efficiency: 88%


It actually is more than the charger needs by specs..

Your charger puts out 300w. How much do you think it consumes. It needs to put out 300w, and light some leds, run some electronics and warm the environment while covering switchmode losses that could be a similar 88%.
350w might, and I mean might just cover it. Where is the 10% headroom though? At the very least it is maxed out. They just said it because they're in sales. The fact it has a fan should be ringing alarm bells. It's shoddy. We need to hear from someone that has one before trying to run it so close to the limit (perhaps beyond) for any length of time.


The last time I heard someone ask if they could bulk charge with one of these things, somebody said yes, and now they have no house. This thread won't be the example your expecting if you can't be arsed to push a balance connector in. After going to all the trouble of wiring up a D plug, not using it would score as a mental health issue.

Just because the PSU can't supply the charger's maximum rating means nothing. (But in this case he is actually OK in the ratings; he could go even less power if wanted)

The only thing that will happen is that the charger will not be able to put out it's maximum rated charge wattage since the source is too low. BUT that's only IF his PSU were underrated, which it is NOT.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Lets me put a 12s charger in my backpack without hardly knowing its there

A backpack will not experience as sharp a jolt as having a charger on the bike frame, however, several builders have carried their charger with them so they can charge at work, (or where-ever "opportunity" charging presents itself). Every time someone has strapped a conventional charger to a bike frame, the charger died (presumably from pothole jolts and constant vibration).

There was a thread a while back about using a fully potted LED power supply (or two in series) as a mobile charger for opportunity bulk charging to 80% full. No reports yet on how that worked out, but...sometimes storing a second charger at work is the cost-effective thing to do, rather than risk the survival of your main charger.

Best of luck with whatever you decide, and hopefully your results will be useful data for those who come after us.