12s2p LiPo pack kit including 12-channel BMS "Lite" Board

[GGoodrum]

Gary:

These "lite" variants will be isolated?

Improving the question: will be possible two 44.4v packs in series, with one lite board in each, to make a 88.8v pack?

- Fabio

Yes, two of these can be put in series, to make a 24s/88.8V pack. You can either charge the two packs with two 48V supplies/chargers, or with one big 96V version, if the charger + lead from the first pack is put in series with the charger - lead from the second pack. I really wouldn't recommend this charging option, though, as you would have the two charge controller boards potentially cycling the charge current. Besides, it is much easier to find two 48V supplies than one big one.

-- Gary

 

[fabiograssi]

Gary: the idea is to charge as 44.4v, because I already have a meawell with a Fechter board! So, connect in parallel to charge and in series to discharge!

Even the MW 350 do the job pretty well and pretty fast for my use, and I already have a inet charger to, then I can do balance charges from time to time!

Will be a nice setup, I hope!

- Fabio

 

[GGoodrum]

Gary: the idea is to charge as 44.4v, because I already have a meawell with a Fechter board! So, connect in parallel to charge and in series to discharge!

Even the MW 350 do the job pretty well and pretty fast for my use, and I already have a inet charger to, then I can do balance charges from time to time!

Will be a nice setup, I hope!

- Fabio

Actually, with one MW supply, you can charge each 12s pack separately in the same amount of time that it would take to do the two in parallel, and you don't have to disconnect the discharge connections.

This new design includes balancing, so you will have balanced charges every time.

-- Gary

 

[fabiograssi]

... and I already have a inet charger to, then I can do balance charges from time to time...

Actually, with one MW supply, you can charge each 12s pack separately in the same amount of time that it would take to do the two in parallel, and you don't have to disconnect the discharge connections.

This new design includes balancing, so you will have balanced charges every time.

-- Gary

About balancing... Sorry, I think yesterday I used my mind too much for "legal stuffs"... Obvious that balancing is the point of a BMS... what a shame!

If I understando correctly, I can leave the charge wires connected all the time in "parallel", to charge with a 44.4v MW, and I can leave the discharge wires connected all the time too in "series", to discharge at 88.8v.... Correct? If yes, Wow! Verrrryyyy nice!

- Fabio

 

[GGoodrum]

... and I already have a inet charger to, then I can do balance charges from time to time...

Actually, with one MW supply, you can charge each 12s pack separately in the same amount of time that it would take to do the two in parallel, and you don't have to disconnect the discharge connections.

This new design includes balancing, so you will have balanced charges every time.

-- Gary

About balancing... Sorry, I think yesterday I used my mind too much for "legal stuffs"... Obvious that balancing is the point of a BMS... what a shame!

If I understando correctly, I can leave the charge wires connected all the time in "parallel", to charge with a 44.4v MW, and I can leave the discharge wires connected all the time too in "series", to discharge at 88.8v.... Correct? If yes, Wow! Verrrryyyy nice!

- Fabio

Not quite. What I'm saying is that if you charge both packs together, at the same time, it is going to take twice as long to charge, compared to charging just one of the packs. So, if you charge one pack first, and then charge the second pack, it is going to take about the same amount of time. The main advantage of this is that you don't have to disconnect the discharge wires. If you still want to charge the two packs in parallel, at the same time, the series connections have to be disconnected. You cannot leave the charge leads in parallel with the discharge leads in series.

-- Gary

 

[fabiograssi]

Not quite. What I'm saying is that if you charge both packs together, at the same time, it is going to take twice as long to charge, compared to charging just one of the packs. So, if you charge one pack first, and then charge the second pack, it is going to take about the same amount of time. The main advantage of this is that you don't have to disconnect the discharge wires. If you still want to charge the two packs in parallel, at the same time, the series connections have to be disconnected. You cannot leave the charge leads in parallel with the discharge leads in series.

-- Gary

Hummm... :?

And what happens if I buy another MW and charge the two packs at same time, putting the two MW in series? I will not need to disconnect the discharge leads, correct? In this case, just one MW will need the Fechter's board, correct?

- Fabio

 

[GGoodrum]

Hummm... :?

And what happens if I buy another MW and charge the two packs at same time, putting the two MW in series? I will not need to disconnect the discharge leads, correct? In this case, just one MW will need the Fechter's board, correct?

- Fabio

Yes, that will work, and you will not need to disconnect the discharge leads. You would need to put the charge leads form both BMSs in series as well. I still like the idea of using a separate supply with each BMS, but yes, you would either need another of Richard's widgets, or if you can find another S-350-48, you could do the R33 mod.

If this is to be a permanent installation the other option would be to just use a 24-channel version of the BMS unit, which we will also have eventually.

-- Gary

 

[gensem]

Wouldnt be much easier and cheaper to just buy thoses KPs chargers and set it to the desired voltage. Even the 2kw one is cheap.

BR

 

[Diamondback]

hi all.

im currently running a 48V ping v2.5 in my bike. the ping has so far been great. it runs about 60V FOC.
and drops to about 50V once riding starts and usually stays there for the bulk of the ride. sags to about 47V have been noted.

im thinking about lipo for my next battery (when the ping dies that is)

would i be correct in saying that a 12s2P (4x 6S1P zippy 8000's) would provide about 50V FOC and 16AH capacity ?

i have 15AH in the ping, and so far have not used more than 10AH, but i intend longer rides where the 15AH will be used.
im thinking the 12S2P would be a good replacement as in use, it should be very similar in voltage to the ping ?
as the lipo wont sag as much (or at all) it should be very similar to the ping in use.

i have a 20A ezee controller on my bike with the ezee geared hub, current is limited to 15A by use of a CA-DP.
current was limited to make best use of the ping (1C discharge rate) and to get more range.

i am very interested in buying one of these "all in one" BMS / charging solutions. as my biggest concern is using
a "octopus" harness and getting the connections wrong

this sounds like it has the potential to allow a load more people to use lipo in future.

Jason.

 

[GGoodrum]

would i be correct in saying that a 12s2P (4x 6S1P zippy 8000's) would provide about 50V FOC and 16AH capacity ?

Yes, that is true.

i have 15AH in the ping, and so far have not used more than 10AH, but i intend longer rides where the 15AH will be used.
im thinking the 12S2P would be a good replacement as in use, it should be very similar in voltage to the ping ?
as the lipo wont sag as much (or at all) it should be very similar to the ping in use.

Also true. With your current setup you will have very little voltage sag at all.

i have a 20A ezee controller on my bike with the ezee geared hub, current is limited to 15A by use of a CA-DP.
current was limited to make best use of the ping (1C discharge rate) and to get more range.

i am very interested in buying one of these "all in one" BMS / charging solutions. as my biggest concern is using
a "octopus" harness and getting the connections wrong

Actually, it is not as bad as it looks. The balance plugs from the four 6s-8000 packs plug into JST-XH connectors in the middle of the board. There are two sets of 2-to-1 5.5mm bullet connector adapters for paralleling the main leads. This will be about as "plug'n play" as we can make it. Basically, you stick a pair of the 6s packs together, with some double-sided tape, do the same thing with the other two 6s-8000 packs, orient them so that the connection ends of each pair of packs face each other in the middle, and then connect the BMS board to the balance plug leads. You then connect the main pack leads to the adapters, stick the special end plates on the ends of the assembled pack and then shrink wrap the whole thing with the provided piece of 9.75" wide PVC shrink wrap.

What you end up with is a 12s2p 48V/16Ah pack that has a full BMS, including cell level LVC protection, cell level over-voltage protection, cell balancing and a charge controller with an automatic end-of-charge cutoff. There will be just three sets of two-wire connections from the pack, two heavy gauge wires for discharge, two medium gauge wires for charging and two very small gauge wires that you either connect into your controller's ebrake input or to the throttle line directly, for the LVC function. For charging, you simply plug in a suitable 48V CC/CV charger or a current limited power supply, and the main LED (at the other end of the pack...) will come on orange, to indicate it is charging. When the cells start getting full their individual red LEDs will start coming on, indicating that the shunt bypass circuit for that channel is active. When all the cells are full, all the red LEDs will be on and then the charge current will be shut off and the main LED will turn green. The shunt circuits will then bleed off all the cells slightly, to the same voltage point, and the red LEDs will all go off. At that point the cells are fully charged and balanced, and the main LED will be green. So, you plug in the charger/supply and simply wait for the main LED to be green and the red LEDs to be all off. At that point you can unplug the charger/supply and the main LED will go off.

Pictures of all this will come next week, once I can get one of these built up. The boards come tomorrow.

-- Gary

 

[gblast123]

What is the pricing for this?

Bare board vs. full board?

 

[addicted2climbing]

Hello GGoodrum,

I just found your post and have a few questions. The previous post explained how your board works and it sounds like it would work for me as well, However I dont need 12S. My application calls for 6S for an electrified mountainboard but I intend to use 4 6s 5000 packs made into 2 parallel packs that feed 1 6354 motor each, or I bundle all 4 packs in parallel to a single pack of 20 ah feeding both motors. Any chance you plan a board that would do this? I like the idea of being able to keep the pack on the board within an enclosure with all the electronics and then charging it with a standard power supply... However I just bought an I-Charger 3010 but I am sure to get use out of it until your able to build a smaller version of your BMS...

Take care,

Marc

 

[Justtoby]

Are these in production yet?

Also does anyone know where someone in uk can buy 12s2p from? I have googled and struggled to even find at hobby king in USA?

 

[mike662]

Also does anyone know where someone in uk can buy 12s2p from? I have googled and struggled to even find at hobby king in USA?

You'd need to buy 4x 6s1p batteries and wire them up in parallel to form two groups of 6s2p, then take those two and wire them up in series for 12s2p. The largest I've seen that you can buy pre-made are 10s1p zippy's from HK.

 

[Justtoby]

Don't worry, the penny just dropped....so are these in production yet?

 

[Kirk]

Its been about a week, any news on price and availability yet? My velomobile is about to get some decent range.

 

[GGoodrum]

Sorry for the delay. I've been testing the standalone/CellLog unit, and have made some changes to accommodate taking advantage of methods' new LVC/HVC boards. First, here's a few pics of the unit I've been testing:

View attachment 3

View attachment 2



There are two boards, one with the cell circuits and the VAL-U-LOK connector, and a smaller one with the charge controller logic. The cell circuits contain a serial string of HVC optos that are used to trigger the end-of-charge cutoff logic. The HVC circuits on methods board will be used to drive the HVC cycling of the charge current, just like on the full Zephyr BMS board. this is a last resort/failsafe, for errant/weak cells.

In the layout, shown below, there is a new small adapter plate, on the bottom right. that will be used to make the proper connections to two of methods' 6s LVC/HVC boards, and has input and output pads for the throttle signals, with the 4.7k current limiting resistor. The idea here is that this one 20-pin plug has everything required to charge and balance a 12s LiPo pack. There are also two pins each that are used for the main charge + and - connections.



This version can also be used with a pair of CellLog units, which will allow the charge process for each cell to be monitored. For existing setups that already have LVC boards, the CellLogs can be used to provide the ANY HVC failsafe signal. The alarm isolation circuits are included on the underside of the custom lid, which is used with the CellLogs.

I'll post some testing results, and some more pics tomorrow.

-- Gary

 

[Spacey]

A lot of us are charging Lipo Cells to 4.1 to 4.15v to help them last longer, is there the ability to request an upper balance limit?

 

[GGoodrum]

A lot of us are charging Lipo Cells to 4.1 to 4.15v to help them last longer, is there the ability to request an upper balance limit?

Yes, this is adjustable with a single resistor value. With the ones I'm using, the balance point is at about 4.13-4.14V. The ALL HVC opos trip when the shunt is fully, right around 4.14V. The failsafe value can be pretty much anything over about 4.17-4.18V. Under normal conditions, even with cells that are pretty far out of balance, cell voltages won't ever reach this point. It is only when there is a weak and/or damaged cell that has drastically reduced capacity, which will cause this cell to fill up way before the rest of the healthy cells so the voltage will rise quickly. The failsafe HVC limit is just there to make sure the cell can't get in a runaway voltage condition. Whether this limit is set at 4.18V or 4.28V really doesn't matter.

-- Gary

 

[ambroseliao]

Hi Gary,

Do you have an ETA when these will be available? I would love to finish my battery setup with your new BMS.

Thanks,
Ambrose

 

[GGoodrum]

Hi Gary,

Do you have an ETA when these will be available? I would love to finish my battery setup with your new BMS.

Thanks,
Ambrose

Not yet, but soon. I'm testing the standalone version today, and then will add a pair of CellLogs, to check out how that part works. After that, this "split-BMS" version (embedded LVC/parallel adapter boards + a separate CMS/balancer...) will be ready-to-go. I will then get back to building/testing the 12s2p shrink-wrapped "kit" version, which is a complete/integrated BMS solution on one board. Functionally, the two setups are identical.

-- Gary

 

[ambroseliao]

Thanks Gary. I'm eagerly awaiting either configuration!

Ambrose

 

[ohzee]

Waiting as well - Just got me a new shipment of 6s 5000mAh 25C zippy's today from HK. These one's even have clear tops so I
can easier tell if any cells are puffed rather then the white one's on my other packs.

I am up to 10 of them with 2 more in transit \o/. Be nice to have something make it even more idiot proof.

 

[GaryJS]

Just subscribing! This sounds great! I'm waiting on my 4x 6s1p batteries arriving (for a 12s2p configuration) so would be very interested!

 

[fabiograssi]

I am with 8 x 6s 5000mah 30C at home, waiting like crazy for the wraped version!

Just to inform: this 8 packs 30C come to me from HK WITHOUT the bullet connectors...

- Fabio