12v x 4 = 48v wire diagram ?

[02jze]

Does this look right ? i currently have 2x12volts wired like this

on my 200watt ebike what gains and losses will occur if i change it to 48volts ?
Also my speed control is stuffed and im looking at buying a new one does it matter if i buy
one suited to a bigger motor such as a 24volt to 500 watt or 48 volt to 500 watt ?

Please help im kinda new to the world of battery power.
Cheers jeff.

 

[stiffi]

What are you trying to do with the 2 kits? Run them in parrallel for 48 volts, or in series for more AH at 12?

 

[02jze]

Well i have 4 x 12v batteries you tell me whats the best way to run them on my bike ?

 

[stiffi]

There's a lot at play.

First, you have to know what your controller if rated for. Too much voltage, and it will be instantly fried. Secondly, your Motor will have the same limits. The best thing to do would be to lay out in this forum, what Brand motor and controller you have, along with what you are trying to do, ie, speed and distance needs.

Good Luck.

 

[02jze]

Thats my bike its all stock the speed controller is all ready shitted so recomend me a new one ?
Motor is 200 watts thats all i know about it. i ride to work which would be around 5k round trip and
i get 2 days out of my current setup I only have a 12v charger so i have to charge each 12v on its own @ 10hrs
each which is a pain.

 

[Lock]

...I only have a 12v charger so i have to charge each 12v on its own @ 10hrs each...

Not strictly true. Ya could add the wiring and a switch that would flip yer two batts between series-connected as they are now to parallel-connected for charging. In other words in operation they are connected in series which adds the volts to get to 24V but in parallel the Ahs are added and the voltage stays at 12V total to use your existing charger. Ya can also get a 24V charger, or a 12V charger rated for higher amps so it charges in less time.

Yer bike looks a lot like Mark Allens don't it?
http://www.evalbum.com/2719

Ya read Mark Allens comments about the motor and controller and how many volts each can tolerate? Gets back to the real question though... why the additional two batts? D'you want faster speeds or longer distances on one charge? And, do you care about legalities :wink:
tks
Lock

 

[Lock]

BTW 02jze... looks like yer motor is a "1018"... a search here will turn up lots of messages about what this motor can and cannot due with overvolting... Despite what Mr.Allen says I'da thought 48V a bit optimistic... one thread here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=14369&p=215067

How d'you know too, that it is the controller that has failed? No chance it's just the handlebar mounted accelerator control? Have you been bypassing the controller and just hooking the batts up to the motor directly?
tks
Lock

 

[02jze]

Im not too sure how the speed controller works but the guy i got it off said its rooted there is a wire hanging down and it is just about an all or nothing kinda throttle which leads me wanting to get a new one. I was also told that the batteries were stuffed when i got given the bike so i went out and spent 120 bucks on new ones to find out there was nothing wrong with them it was the charger that was broken,. The battery box that comes on the bike is falling apart as i have to take it apart everday to charge the batteries so my play was to use saddlebags and up the volts for more speed ? thought since i had them there i'd give it ago ?
the batter charger i have is a 6 or 12 volt charger so how do i wire my batteries together so that my charger will still charget them ??
Oh and no im not to worried about legal as i dont ride on the road. (through parks) haha

 

[02jze]

36 Volt 1000 Watt Electric Scooter Motor
36V 1000W 3000RPM electric scooter motor. Powerful four brush permanent magnet electric motor design with 100% ball bearing construction. 15" long red and black power leads. Shaft rotation reversible by reversing power leads. Dimensions: 4-1/8" outside diameter x 6" long excluding shaft, 7" long including shaft. Includes factory installed 11 tooth sprocket for 8mm chain. This original sprocket can be replaced with 11 tooth sprocket for #25 chain (item # SPR-2511C), or 10 tooth sprocket for 8mm chain (item # SPR-810). Motor shaft starts out at 12mm OD and is stepped down to 10mm OD with two flat spots where the sprocket mounts, past the sprocket there is a threaded post for the nut and washer which hold the sprocket in place. Made by Unite®. Weight 10 lbs.
item # MOT-361000 for $179

Will this bolt to my gearbox ? on mine this should hammer compared to mine yeah ?

 

[Lock]

Will this bolt to my gearbox ? on mine this should hammer compared to mine yeah ?

Dunno if it'd be a direct bolt-on but yes it would "hammer" as in pound the crap out of all the other drive components (grin) Stretch the little #25 chain, strip gears, bend stuff... Did you search here for 1018?

Read this thread, after which there will be a short quiz:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2163
:lol:
Lock

 

[02jze]

Thats a good idea ill keep it in mind. i like the prices on the that scooterparts site. id buy one of those 1000watt motors where in australia can you buy this stuff thats what i wanna know. How much damage would a 1000watt motor do to my bike ? you really think it will be that bad?
But for now what i wanna know is how to wire my battery for so that my 12v charger can charge my 2x12v set up

would this work ?

 

[stiffi]

what you have there is a 24 volt setup. That's the two 12 volt batteries wired in parrallel.

Your controller and motor should be able to handle that. In fact, that's how it's designed. That battery box has a 3 prong output so that you can put the batteries inside, and charge the whole thing as a 24 volt pack. You can still do that if you order a 24 volt. Charger. Last time I priced the 24 volt charger that came with that kit, it was really cheap, like $20 USD.

 

[02jze]

i have that charger but its shitted. If i buy another how long will it last is what worries me. and im ditching the battery box cuz its falling apart. i wanna go saddle bags and run more batteries. I own 4 x12v i could just buy a new speed controller and saddle bags and run 48v or if i decide to go for a longer ride i could just run 24v twice cuz id carry the spares with me.

 

[Lock]

Thats a good idea ill keep it in mind. i like the prices on the that scooterparts site. id buy one of those 1000watt motors where in australia can you buy this stuff thats what i wanna know. How much damage would a 1000watt motor do to my bike ? you really think it will be that bad?

Think of the power train as a system with both electric/electronic parts and mechanical parts. All these bits are designed to work together around the designed power levels - the batts have to be able to release their energy fast enough without shortening their useful life, the controller components have to pass along this max power w/out its components overheating, the motor has to convert this power to rotary motion... the sprockets and chain have to move this power to the wheel. All along the way there are losses, almost all expressed as heat that needs to be released or it builds up and burns stuff up. Once the motor converts the electrical energy to mechanical energy then ya have to be concerned about stuff bending and stretching and breaking... All these components, electric and mechanical are links in a chain. With a 1000W motor you are introducing one huge link while all the rest of the links are still only 200W in size...

Of course, the 1000W motor will not "produce" 1000W on its own. It needs to be "fed" 1000W (actually more when you factor in that it may be only 70%-80% approx. efficient) from the controller. So now you need a "bigger" controller... And then you'll need a battery pack capable of delivering this power level to the controller w/out damaging the cells and shortening their life...

But for now what i wanna know is how to wire my battery for so that my 12v charger can charge my 2x12v set up
would this work ?

Yes. I believe you are illustrating a (square) charger hooked up to (rectangular) two batteries that are connected in parallel. Ya only need to figure out the wiring and switch to disconnect the normal series connections that give 24V to the controller, then connect the batts in this parallel fashion for charging. Be aware that connecting the two batts in parallel so you can charge them together at 12V will not 1/2 the time required in total. Just save you swapping batts 1/2 way through!
Lock

 

[Lock]

what you have there is a 24 volt setup. That's the two 12 volt batteries wired in parrallel.

Hang on stiffi... Pretty sure parallel is shown!
Lock

 

[stiffi]

Oh Geez, Lock is right. It is parallel. Sorry, I was assuming you were using two 12 volt series (2 batteries together) in parallel. Sorry, I've probably just confused you more


You could buy a new controller, but they can be pretty pricey. I'm not sure what voltage that motor can handle. Perhaps search that link listed earlier. You could wire 4 batteries together in parallel. Just connect the postives to positives and negatives to negatives like in your most recent diagram.

Each time you double the batteries, you are doubling the Amp Hours, and that is what increases range. Doubling the batteries in parallel, won't affect speed, though.

 

[Lock]

i have that charger but its shitted. If i buy another how long will it last is what worries me.

Which is why you should spend a little more on a better quality charger bought from a reputable source and then there is no worry :wink:

and im ditching the battery box cuz its falling apart. i wanna go saddle bags and run more batteries. I own 4 x12v i could just buy a new speed controller and saddle bags and run 48v or if i decide to go for a longer ride i could just run 24v twice cuz id carry the spares with me.

AH HA! So it's more distance you are after! Not the best idea to carry spares as dead weight 02jze (errrrr... how DO you pronounce your name? hehe)

...instead, employ ALL batts all the time. If ya start w/two batts in series, parallel in the two new batts so all four are working. This spreads the load such that each batt/the whole pack will last longer (more discharge and recharge cycles before they get tired.) The way to do this is to parallel two batteries together (a "buddy pair" that remains at 12V because they are paralleled) then connect the two buddy pairs together in series to give you yer 24V again...

I'll suggest this motor would be a more sensible upgrade to the 200W rated motor/controller ya have now:
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/DCM-1501/24VDC-450W-MOTOR-D-SHAFT/1.html

EVen though it is not rated 1000W, the jump from 200W would still seem dramatic...

Lock

 

[Lock]

BTW 02... keeping the system at 24V but doubling yer Ahs (so approx. doubling your range per charge) and upping the wattage to 450 from 200 will not up your max speed but WILL give you much snappier acceleration and better hill climbing. Better acceleration in a lot of stop-and-go travel and moving faster up any hills WILL up your *average* trip speeds though...
Lock

 

[Gregory]

. i ride to work which would be around 5k round trip and
i get 2 days out of my current setup I only have a 12v charger so i have to charge each 12v on its own @ 10hrs
each which is a pain.

just on this, SLA batteries don't like being used and left half discharged.

Always charge SLA back up to full as soon as practical after a ride to ensure they give their full 200-400 cycles.

 

[02jze]

so ill rebuild my bike !! ill make it handle bigger sprocket and moto chain. Or do the hub motors work better ? Ive seen 500watt hub motors pretty cheap. Are they good ?

 

[02jze]

just on this, SLA batteries don't like being used and left half discharged.

Always charge SLA back up to full as soon as practical after a ride to ensure they give their full 200-400 cycles.[/quote]

so you think i should put them on charge for 9 hrs when i get to work ? everyday. thats only 5 mins use per charge then. wont that shorten the days of use i get out of them too much.

 

[Lock]

02...
I have driven 24V for eight years. I have always carried a little 24V 2A Soneil charger with me. It has no cooling fan or even cooling vents (because the power levels it works at and so the losses - waste heat - are so tiny.) The size of a deck of playing cards (smaller really) and fits in my pocket:
http://soneil.com/index.html

The point is, the packs I am used to are two 12V TEN AMP HOUR batts - you have not said so far how many Ah your batts are rated for?

The 24V x 10Ah (so 240Whs) SLA packs that *I* know do not take nine hours or wattever to recharge! More like 2-4 hours depending on how depleted they are and how tired they are (how many times they have already been cycled.)

And yes, leaving SLA in a partially discharged state for many hours is not good. I have basically always just left my scoots plugged in when not in motion. You do not need to fully recharge a SLA pack fully when ya plug it in. Any and all recharging goin' on is better than no recharging at all! The name of the game with SLA chemistry is shallow discharges.

So however you re-config yer bike batt packs, make `em so you can remove the batts easily to take `em indoors or wherever to plug `em in. No diff. than any laptop computer!
Lock

 

[02jze]

I am very grateful for all of your guys help. 02jze is my licence plate of my car i use it on all of my car forum id's you can call me by that name or jeff. As for the travel i do my bike does a great job but in the 3 weeks ive had it its getting boring. just alittle slow cruises at about 10to 12 KMPh i dont see ANY hills on my way to work and takes me around 5 to 10 mins to get just over 2 kilometers. When i was given the bike i didnt think it would move me as i weigh about 115 kg about 210 pounds ? The batteries i have are 12v 12amp hours and they are about 2 weeks old and yes they take 10 hours each when dead flatt.

This how i meant to run my batteries ? bottom box is the speed controller. this = 24v parrell?

 

[Lock]

This how i meant to run my batteries ? bottom box is the speed controller. this = 24v parrell?

Hey JEFF (02 is fun actually )... Yes, and No. Yer diagram is two SLAs in SERIES first, THEN paralleled versus two first in parallel THEN seried (maybe. Yer starting to confuse me here too :lol: ...) Weird I know, same end result in total pack Volts and total Ahs, but not quite the same performance over time. The idea again is to PARALLEL FIRST as *Buddy Pairs*, THEN series things to up the Volts... Only `cause the buddies play better together... balancing themselves/each other... one supporting the other...
Tks
Lock

 

[02jze]

Maybe this ?????