1989 Kawasaki EX500 (Ninja) - EV conversion, finished but still refining

[j bjork]

On a related note. I kinda don't like ANT BMS. I guess it works and does the things I need it to do, but the interface and adjusting parameters is rather non-intuitive. And why the heck does it need to continuously
flash an LED on every series group while it's balancing?


I know LEDs don't take that much energy, but 28 of them flashing continuously adds up to an unnecessary waste of energy, and noticeable heat added.

Well, the leds dosent really matter as the whole balancing is wasting energy. The resistors just make heat of the electricity just as the leds make heat and light.
Does the same cells stay high when resting, and on both charging and discharging? In that case I suppose it is just a matter of getting them balanced once and for all. I dont think my bms:es normally balance when I charge, and if they do it is not much.

 

[harrisonpatm]

Well, the leds dosent really matter as the whole balancing is wasting energy. The resistors just make heat of the electricity just as the leds make heat and light.
Does the same cells stay high when resting, and on both charging and discharging? In that case I suppose it is just a matter of getting them balanced once and for all. I dont think my bms:es normally balance when I charge, and if they do it is not much.

They're balanced now, and I now just leave balancing off. I guess I just prefer JKBMS, they just don't make it for 28s. And with JKBMS, the balancing doesn't actually waste energy; it's active balancing, so it pulls current from the highest cell, and charges the lowest cell, until they're balanced. I don't actually know what ANTBMS does, I guess it just uses resistive balancing as you've described it.

 

[harrisonpatm]

I like cheesy and tacky humor. Thus, I decided to give my motorcycle some branding:


Killowatt-saki, instead of Kawasaki. It's so tacky and dumb, I love it.

 

[A-DamW]

Love it!

 

[harrisonpatm]

Brought both of my builds to my local motorcycle show. Let's see if we can get more people behind DIY builds!

 

[harrisonpatm]

Still never found a good standalone charger setup, I have 1 that's the 4 paralleled boost converters, and 1 that plugs into my inverter. Each is mediocre on its own, at 800-1000w.

Then I realized I could parallel both chargers at the same time. After testing that it worked with just an Anderson splitter cable, I reprinted the charging port:


So now I can get 2000w of fully solar charging at the same time. Or just use one port if I'm not in a hurry to charge.

 

[harrisonpatm]

Pro tip: if you want to win awards at motorcycle shows, all you have to do is show up with a DIY electric motorcycle at a show where 90% of the other entries are unmodified Harleys from only the past 15 years, maybe with a custom paint job or something. Then you'll be one of the one of the only ones in your entry class, and you'll basically win by default, regardless of how the locals feel about EVs!

 

[Tony01]

KWsaki I like it a lot. I don’t use a BMS it’s just another thing to fail. Why trust a $100 Chinese BMS with a $5k bike? I balance manually; at .03v I wouldn’t even touch it. Why not ditch the bms?

 

[harrisonpatm]

KWsaki I like it a lot. I don’t use a BMS it’s just another thing to fail. Why trust a $100 Chinese BMS with a $5k bike? I balance manually; at .03v I wouldn’t even touch it. Why not ditch the bms?

I'm using 840 secondhand cells, I want to know if they're unbalanced

 

[harrisonpatm]

I feel like I have to brag just a little about my successful experiment:


I've been running with my 3d-printed brake lever for the front brakes since I got the bike working, so about 3 months. Hasn't broken yet! I've had lots of comments on it, most of them questioning/critical, which is good. One guy I talked to, a motorcycle mechanic with a few decades of experience, actually pointed out that it might not be as stupid as it sounds. I was explaining that the materiel I used was carbon-fiber-reinforced nylon, which by some metrics is even stronger than the cast aluminum of the original brake lever, which was broken off anyway when I first purchased it off craigslist. He said something along the lines of, "be careful that it's not too strong!" He explained that in a lot of cases, manufacturers want to design a system with parts that break before others. In this case, he suggested that if there was an incident (crash?) in which the lever would normally break, but didn't, it could cause more extensive damage elsewhere. In this case, likely to the master cylinder.

Anyway, I've had no problems with it, I have two other methods of breaking on the bike, and I still keep a spare printed lever with me in case it does. I will admit though, it's certainly one of the "sketchier" applications for 3d printing!

 

[MorbidlyObeseKoala]

Anyway, I've had no problems with it, I have two other methods of breaking on the bike, and I still keep a spare printed lever with me in case it does. I will admit though, it's certainly one of the "sketchier" applications for 3d printing!

I don't know if you found the same youtube suggestion where the guy was testing some material strengths for a brake lever in a stress gauge but it seemed like there were several 3D printed and "forged" carbon options that outperformed the metal version, albeit failed in a more dramatic snap rather than slow bend to break. The UV wear and tear would be harder to anticipate I think but who knows, could be a decade before that causes issues.

I think you should work on designing something outrageous for the brake lever since you can 3D print anything imaginable, just would need to retain the basic angles around finger placement and where it pushes the master cylinder. Florescent blue lightning bolts maybe?

 

[harrisonpatm]

I think you should work on designing something outrageous for the brake lever since you can 3D print anything imaginable, just would need to retain the basic angles around finger placement and where it pushes the master cylinder. Florescent blue lightning bolts maybe?

Like, the lever itself is a lightning bolt? Not an awful idea!

don't know if you found the same youtube suggestion where the guy was testing some material strengths for a brake lever in a stress gauge but it seemed like there were several 3D printed and "forged" carbon options that outperformed the metal version, albeit failed in a more dramatic snap rather than slow bend to break. The UV wear and tear would be harder to anticipate I think but who knows, could be a decade before that causes issues.

I didn't see any of those, I just went ahead and did it. Later, I did stumble across this video:

Testing various print methods and materials on an entire rear sprocket. I was surprised to see the FDM version last the longest!

 

[TorgueRPM]

I feel like I have to brag just a little about my successful experiment:
View attachment 359672

I've been running with my 3d-printed brake lever for the front brakes since I got the bike working, so about 3 months. Hasn't broken yet! I've had lots of comments on it, most of them questioning/critical, which is good. One guy I talked to, a motorcycle mechanic with a few decades of experience, actually pointed out that it might not be as stupid as it sounds. I was explaining that the materiel I used was carbon-fiber-reinforced nylon, which by some metrics is even stronger than the cast aluminum of the original brake lever, which was broken off anyway when I first purchased it off craigslist. He said something along the lines of, "be careful that it's not too strong!" He explained that in a lot of cases, manufacturers want to design a system with parts that break before others. In this case, he suggested that if there was an incident (crash?) in which the lever would normally break, but didn't, it could cause more extensive damage elsewhere. In this case, likely to the master cylinder.

Anyway, I've had no problems with it, I have two other methods of breaking on the bike, and I still keep a spare printed lever with me in case it does. I will admit though, it's certainly one of the "sketchier" applications for 3d printing!

Sacrificial design is important. A strange balance to strike with a brake lever. If you crash it probably won't matter though, you can always print another one.

 

[harrisonpatm]

Speaking of sacrificial design... Crash Test!!!!



A driver pulled most of the way through an intersection I was approaching, then decided he didn't want to, and make a sudden (illegal) u-turn, within the intersection, putting his car back in my path. I braked, not fast enough, hit his front end at 15mph and fell off.

If you'll look, you'll see that the brake lever got scraped on the end, but didn't crack or break. The steel handlebar broke off! It happened too fast, I'm have no idea what parts of the bike hit the street or his car, but it could have been a lot worse.

Most notably. My battery mounting seems to have survived its first stress test. And having clear panels means I can directly see that there was no damage or shifting of cells, without having to remove the battery to do it. I'm very relieved that a sudden tipover didn't stress the packs at all, because frankly the way they are mounted means that lateral stress is not well supported. But clearly it did fine.

I got off rather lucky. Lost the front wheel fender, handlebars, headlight, front turn signal, several 3d-printed elements which are already reprinting, and the tank/cover got dented and scratched. No damage to the powerplant or drivetrain, it seems. Or to me, I was wearing all my gear!

Ride safe out there, everybody. No matter how careful you are, you're not in control of morons in SUVs.

(oh, and I see that @The fingers just posted in "was bound to happen" about a trucked that tipped over and the batteries it was transporting ruptured. Clearly I did a better job securing my cells than that truck!)

 

[dominik h]

The most important thing is that nothing happened to you, the rest is repairable

 

[neptronix]

Glad to hear you're ok!

 

[wturber]

I feel like I have to brag just a little about my successful experiment:
<snip>

Anyway, I've had no problems with it, I have two other methods of breaking on the bike, and I still keep a spare printed lever with me in case it does. I will admit though, it's certainly one of the "sketchier" applications for 3d printing!

Potentially sketch - sure. But it looks like your have the layer lines laid down in a way that optimizes strength for the application. I've been using 3D printed tire levers for removing bicycle tires. I've used PETG. They have held up quite well precisely because I make sure that the strong forces don't are not applied in a way that would separate layers. I do break them every now and then. But that happens rarely and where the lever is fairly thin.

I suppose that if you really wanted to see if you are crazy or not, you could do some destructive testing and see what happens.

 

[harrisonpatm]

I suppose that if you really wanted to see if you are crazy or not, you could do some destructive testing and see what happens.

Did you... um... Did you see my last post, perhaps?

 

[wturber]

Did you... um... Did you see my last post, perhaps?

Yes, afterwards. But your crash is hardly a controlled test.

I assume the brunt of the impact was on the end of the orange handle - hence why the steel handlebar broke. But that part is not shown. I can infer from the photos is that the end of the lever will break before the main body of the lever. And given the different thicknesses, that makes sense. I would further suppose that most people won't have the grip strength to break the lever at the thicker areas. So the design and print should be robust in everyday use. But frankly, I had already assumed that just from my experience with thick printings with PETG - which shouldn't be as strong.

 

[SlowCo]

Glad you didn't 'break' yourself. Did the driver stop and admit fault? Will you be compensated by their insurance? If so, I'm curious how they will deal with a self built bike.

 

[harrisonpatm]

Glad you didn't 'break' yourself. Did the driver stop and admit fault? Will you be compensated by their insurance? If so, I'm curious how they will deal with a self built bike.

The driver did stop and he knew it was his fault. We decided to not deal with insurance. As I mentioned in a previous post, in my state, insurance doesn't cover damage if a motorcycle is more than (I think?) 25 years old. Which mine technically is, on paper. Insurance is just there for liability, if I would have been at fault.

The guy was cool enough about it. He knew it was entirely his fault, and he clearly felt bad about it. I have his contact info and license plate. And he just gave me several hundred dollars for repairs. Since the battery, controller, motor, and frame were all undamaged, I was able to start reprinting parts and ordering replacements right away when I got home.

Perhaps I would have gotten more involved via insurance, if the motorcycle had taken more significant damage. But I got lucky all around, and one of the main reasons I wanted to build a motorcycle myself is because I wanted to be able to fix anything that would break on it. So I'm just getting what I asked for.

 

[j bjork]

Glad you are ok. It could be problematic getting money from the insurance when your bike isnt approved as it is.
Not sure how it works in the states, but it sure could be a problem here.

 

[TorgueRPM]

Maybe your battery's (relative) ability to flex saved you from a fire. The way you protected it within the frame is smart too

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

Sorry to hear about your accident... Glad you're ok and the damage doesn't seem too bad

 

[harrisonpatm]

Maybe your battery's (relative) ability to flex saved you from a fire. The way you protected it within the frame is smart too

Thanks, I think I agree with you. When it suddenly tipped over, it's likely that the packs flexed before they simply cracked and split.