1MWh (1000KWh) battery packs for large EVs

[crazymanc]

Ianhill I don't suppose you could actually write in sentences with paragraphs so what you've written is readable.

 

[liveforphysics]

If the real cost of sustainably powering an operation is more costly than the benefit the operation provides, then it's time to conclude that process. Using non-sustainable energy sources to power processes is a false economy, as no process is worth trading the quality/function of this shared spaceships life support system.

Yes but that is exactly how I feel about windfarms because of the millions of tons of radioactive waste they cause to get created for their huge multi-ton rare earth neodymium magnets for each 3MW average size windturbine.

Modern motors won't use rare earths anymore. Already modern EV's have replaced rare-earths with ferrite for PM's (used for cruise efficiency) and reluctance torque of the steel in the IPM rotor laminations. This will reach wind-turbines too if it hasn't already, and hopefully more rare earth's can stay in the ground. I've personally flown over rare-earth extraction pit mines and leeching ponds in China and it's like a poisoned wasteland for as far as your eye can see in all directions with rows of pits and leeching pools. It would be great to stop terra-forming the surface of our spaceship from working eco-systems into toxic craters.

 

[Ianhill]

Ianhill I don't suppose you could actually write in sentences with paragraphs so what you've written is readable.

I suppose i can means you asked nice enough, when I talk mg rover I can get a bit carried away.

Reluctance motors have a very promising future from the research I've read on them they seem our most viable option for a mass scale powerful electric motor and with ferric magnets their performance at high temps is better than neodymium and can nearly match samarium is some forms.

Will we ever learn from our past, cutting tree's down in their millions seems like a good idea compared to this current trend on lithium mining 500,000 litre of water needed per ton leaving surround areas in drought around a toxic cesspit many cases of this with different industries shitting on everything for a dime.

 

[Hillhater]

Mr Musk has said many times over that for 90%+ of the time our cars are parked and doing nothing. All we need to do is put their batteries to work as grid storage in that time.

Everyone plugs in their cars at night and goes to cook the dinner. Well already you've probably got 70% of your battery left when you get home. Any peak demand from your cooker can be automatically buffered by your car battery. Then, since there's probably 8+ hours until you need to use your car again, the energy lost from cooking can easily be replaced, as well as topping you up when grid demands drop towards late evening.
.

By "Everyone" i assume you actually mean " those EV owners who have access to overnight charging facilities !.
Even if "everyone" did own an EV , a huge proportion will not have access to overnight charging if the number of cars currently parked overnigh on the streets is any indication.
Further, this method of supporting the grid storage is based on a model that assumes current car ownership and usage patterns continue.
What about the alternative Musk vision of autonamous vehicles simply dropping you at home , then carrying on to "taxi" other passengers "Uber style" and earn income for the owners ?
It possible with this form of car share system that the number of vehicles on the road could significantly reduce whilst the number of vehicle miles travelled continues to increase
Its even likely that private ownership could be hugely reduced if not disappear ! So there may not be many "parked" EVs at all, other than when they need to dock to recharge quickly before buzzing off again to earn more taxi fares.
That doesnt fit with the "EV grid support" idea !
....of course , i guess you could always "book" an EV to come and boost your cooker for an hour or so ?

 

[crazymanc]

Well I'm looking at this from a kinds of present and future point of view.

I'm figuring that if EVs become the future then residential street side parking will have charging points installed at intervals down the street.

Cars will then be able to plug in virtually anywhere, albeit on standard 230V 13A feeds. Payment for the electricity used will be done automatically via the charging system on the car. Kind of like your car would have a SIM card and you'd be tied into an electricity tariff.

All that'd be left is to install inverters so that the cars can supply the grid.

Of course I love the idea of Elon musk's self driving taxi network. That would be awesome and I hope a self driving fleet of cars become the norm. Then people wouldn't need to buy cars and public transport would evaporate. Everyone would just use the fleet!

I do of course see people as wanting to own their own cars. We will have to see.

 

[Ianhill]

In the south wales valleys there's a section of cabling that was stole 3 times last year leaving many without power for days and the railways experience high theft.

I can imagine those street chargers being vandalized on a regular basis, its a shame but some in society just don't play nice there's lots of reasons why it happens leaving those in need of transport the most without the power needed.

I can see the attraction to driverless cars when we have sterling moss driving most of cars these days and he still not to old to be dropping the box on every corner what a guy.

Lately work has been self employed agency based with your own tools required and travel to site, i can fill half a small van with basic tools needed its OK if you have a laptop and a sandwich but heavy duty work will need a different approach to car sharing its not practical in anyway for myself I use the van as a small workshop of sorts with 230vac.

I think the short time out come of Ai drivers will be look out taxi drivers and public transport your jobs are at high risk of being computerized but I can't see it being implemented successful before 2020, Nvidia are on a big push mind with the hardware required so who knows like you say.

What happens when emergency services make the flip to electric no word on that yet, I believe a hybrid should be used on such important life and death rides where range anxiety is simply not aloud. Even though most ambulances in wales were running out of fuel few years ago sat idol no funding for fuel due to high costs of oil.

 

[Hillhater]

Most Taxis in major cities (N York, Sydney, Etc) are now Hybrids, and some Teslas as Limo service.
As PHEVs become more developed, they will become even more common for Taxi/Uber service.
Then , when Autonamous control is approved, the change to full EVs will soon happen.
There will always be exceptions, such as you tooled up "Tradeys",.. but i do see potential for a real shift in personal transport to a Ai car share style in and around Cities where congestion is a major issue and infrastructure investment is never going to keep up with the current model of population movement.

 

[kiwiev]

Thats coincidence in the last week I have had 2 inquiries from Tradesmen looking for 200Km conversion s for there utes.

And they weren't from the cities I guess its starting to make sense to some of the general population.

Cheers Kiwi

 

[TheBeastie]

Tesla now official with its Tesla electric truck..
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/852580027178696704
https://www.wired.com/2017/04/tesla-electric-truck/
Now we can only speculate what size the battery pack will be but this article suggests up to 800kWh just under the 1MWh point now..

Quote from article.
The biggest drawback? Range. Long-haul truckers typically cover 400 to 600 miles a day, something hard to do with batteries alone—unless you’re packing a mighty big one. “I imagine they’ll use a 600-kWh battery, possibly up to 800-kWh,” says Nikola CEO Trevor Milton. (The Model S sedan sports a pack that tops out at 100 kilowatt-hours.) With a little math, Milton figures “Musk’s truck will get around 200 to 300 miles range.”


We also got the latest VTOL or "flying electric car". Seeing is believing! This aircraft from Lilium looks a fair bit more stylish than Google founder Larry Pages flying car..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohig71bwRUE

I can't help but think that the very first market for such flying vehicles will be in replacing parts of the existing market. One particular one is hospitals that have helicopters/helipads. I live near such a hospital and I have watched helicopters land and take off probably into the hundreds of times now. The one thing I think everytime I watch the process is how slow it is.. They run the ICE motor for a good 3-4 minutes on the landing pad before slowly rising to a safe height only really start moving at about 6 minutes into the whole process, and the landings are always slow as well.

[youtube]ohig71bwRUE[/youtube]

 

[Hillhater]

Lilium may look stylish, but they have a way to go to make it a flying car.
Can it lift off with a pilot, passengers, and a battery pack sized for a useable range ? ...so far its just a winged drone.
Can they change it from a 10m fixed wing to a sensible sized car for use in urban areas or garaging ?
Can they get the aviation certification and regulations changed to make such a vehicle legal ?
..oh!, and electric ducted fans are not "jets"
I suspect the biggest problem will be battery size, weight, and cost,....intil technology improves significantly

 

[TheBeastie]

This issue has come up before as posted earlier but its being brought up again, electric cars expected to stress the grid.
While I agree we aren't likely to see flying electric cars for many decades the electric cars are becoming an issue. If we get to flying electric cars we will probably need an "energy miracle" to charge them (from home).

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/wall-street-journal/electricity-grid-under-pressure-as-ecars-plug-in/news-story/dea80bae95a1bc2b9848162a874b9c05
(Second URL to beat paywalls, original article source WALL STREET JOURNAL) Electricity grid under pressure as e-cars plug in
Quote from article "“Superchargers are enormous power draws,” says Jesse Jenkins, a researcher at the MIT Energy Initiative. “Chargers in parking garages or superchargers at rest stops are not a solution for charging EVs en masse unless we are OK with significant costs to upgrade distribution grids.”

Even the regular charger found in homes and businesses could present a costly problem when cars charge during demand peaks. Anything that increases peak demand could increase the cost of electricity for everyone.

Whether the electrical grid can handle demand may depend on whether consumers can be coaxed to play along."

I think Denmark is really only yanking away incentives on electric cars because its already looking down the barrel of new grid upgrades and power-stations, https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-02/denmark-is-killing-tesla-and-other-electric-cars

 

[liveforphysics]

Neat the WSJ pays folks who are corrupt or impressively clueless to make whatever anti-EV propaganda they can think up.

Meanwhile, I will continue development and implementation of the grid storage buffer batteries for solar farms that make the entire EV charge power discussion mute.

 

[jonescg]

Don't worry Luke, TheBeastie is the kind of guy who will stand there saying it can't be done, long after it's all been done.