2 trillion/6 trillion

[goatman]

America became Socialist today, so some say. I have my tin foil hat on and am just going to say some things and see if you can help me work through this

does it mean the entire world went socialist or something more nefarious like we were all just enslaved.

some anonymous people just print us money and charge us interest for life because if the money makers charge interest, its impossible to pay back.

so global pandemic, everyone shuts down. everyone borrows money.

if the US prints 2 trillion and then every other country/govt is borrowing at about the same rate. then not one Countries " cash in circulation" is out of relation to another countries. meaning its not like Zimbabwe or Venezuela . all our dolllars retain their value to each other.

the problem is the interest being charged. that's a big problem for such a large amount of money. how in the world can the middle class ever pay it off, its kind of like your mortgage payment just doubled but your wage remained the same.

so the world gets hammered because of a virus and the central bankers get richer and we get poorer.

how does everybody feel about this?

 

[Balmorhea]

In the USA, I believe the plan is for the central bank to lend the newly invented money to large banks with no interest, and for those banks to lend It to whomever they want, for as much interest as they can manage to charge.

It’s the Federal Reserve’s way of giving Wall Street swindlers gigatons of free money, while claiming it’s only a loan they must pay back.

 

[jonescg]

Like that meme about world debt -

Apparently the global debt is about 1000 trillion dollars. Who do we owe? Jupiter? :?

 

[markz]

Like that meme about world debt -

Apparently the global debt is about 1000 trillion dollars. Who do we owe? Jupiter? :?

Foreign - $6.4 trillion. (In December 2019, Japan owned $1.15 trillion and China owned $1.07 trillion of U.S. debt.5 That's more than one-third of foreign holdings.)

 

[Dauntless]

They're going to lend the money to the banks and others, there WILL be interest. The government makes money on these things, don't you doubt that.

World debt. China owns I think all of the debt of the International Monetary Fund. (Separate from the World Bank, we all tend to run them together but they are not.) It's called Special Drawing Rights, it's their banknote. (The Song 'I Wish I was in Dixie' is about the $10 Dix banknote. Nothing to do with the then nonexistent Mason Dixon line people attribute the song to.) If you've studied economics and understand the 'Market Basket' theorizing, yeah, SDR's fall into that.

So when the International Monetary Fund lends an amount equivalent of say $10 billion in American to an African country, they send SDR's. China shows up and buys them. Oh, they think this shores up their financial reserves. Just wait until they try to sell them and everyone says 'I don't want them.' But at least China gets a certain amount of pandering to because of it. Something like $204 billion worth so far, no interest, no nothing. But the International Monetary Fund gets paid back the $204 billion plus interest, all in cash. Sweet deal.

https://www.imf.org/en/About/Factsheets/Sheets/2016/08/01/14/51/Special-Drawing-Right-SDR

 

[Balmorhea]

They're going to lend the money to the banks and others, there WILL be interest. The government makes money on these things, don't you doubt that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/15/federal-reserve-slashes-interest-rates-zero-part-wide-ranging-emergency-intervention/

They are willing to accept losses, use up their market power, and devalue the currency, all so they can transfer wealth to those who need it least.

 

[Dauntless]

It's not a transference of wealth. This is what Maynard was REALLY talking about when he said 'Priming the pump.' If people can't get paid when they work nothing happens, so the money has to be there to pay them. Hence they come up with a way to lend it. There's economic strife and there's pure financial strife. Governments cause economic strife, which can cause financial strife. They don't generally cause direct financial strife. But they'll cause anything when they can.

This may not be the best way, but it's the only way they'll ever be willing. This is how governmental vision works.

 

[markz]

Geffen gave the middle finger to land goers on his super yaught, surely he is worth a gazillion bucks.
I would have thought he paid into an underground bunker, or had one made.

Seems Billy G. is held up in his Washington State mansion, water side. Gotta be worth more then a measly gazillion geffen bucks.

Whats going to happen when people cant make mortgages in a months time. Lots will fall behind, get the boot and the rental markets will be flooded. Now if landlords jack up prices beyond normal inflation, thats considered gouging right. Will there be outrage same as $50 masks. Seen a $25 increase in monthly rate on online ads from major rental corps.

I doubt a measly $1200 in cash can save a $2000/m + utilities mortgaged house, with no job to go back to, or severely lessened hrs.
Then there are leased vehicles, say another $300/m. Their pride and ego will force them to pay the monthly insurance and buy gas and not take bus. Then their car is repo'd and their credit is sinking fast. Then they can swallow a little bit of ego, with no cash its forced, shitbox rusted car it is, but ego still high to take bus.

 

[spinningmagnets]

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=47475

 

[MJSfoto1956]

Joke making the rounds...

QUESTION: What does it take to get a Trump supporter to embrace socialism?
ANSWER: About $1200

 

[goatman]

I think alot of the Trump supporters are still working driving trucks, getting ready to plant crops, fords getting ready to pump out ventilators, the pillow guy is making masks. I wouldn't be surprised to see most of America going back to work by Easter. theres a whole lot more to America than California and New York and Florida

 

[markz]

$1200 to vote Trump

This Kung Flu will do him in.

 

[goatman]

here in Canada were buying up the mortgages from the Banks so we don't pop the real estate bubble.
Bank of Canada is planning $150 billion with much more to come at the rate of $500 million a week/ 2 billion a month for as long as it takes.

so it sounds like the Bank of Canada can just print money and buy up the mortgages interest free but that's not the case.
when Canada signed the trade agreement with Europe there was a clause in the agreement saying the Bank of Canada is no longer able to print money, they have to borrow the cash with interest from some central bank somewhere.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/real-estate/canada-has-put-housing-markets-on-life-support-heres-whats-happening/ar-BB12gOw1?ocid=spartanntp

 

[markz]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/real-estate/canada-has-put-housing-markets-on-life-support-heres-whats-happening/ar-BB12gOw1?ocid=spartanntp

Yeah I wonder how much of a low ball offer you could send a seller in todays real estate climate. No ones buying, except the rich. The houses currently on the market before the China Virus hit, mid March was things started closing down, so its been 3 weeks now.

I saw the mortgage rates drop 0.5%, then up 1%.

Investing in the major banks like RBC and TD might be something to look into. Bank of Canada giving away free money.

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/real-estate/canada-has-put-housing-markets-on-life-support-heres-whats-happening/ar-BB12gOw1?ocid=spartanntp

Yeah I wonder how much of a low ball offer you could send a seller in todays real estate climate. No ones buying, except the rich. The houses currently on the market before the China Virus hit, mid March was things started closing down, so its been 3 weeks now.

I saw the mortgage rates drop 0.5%, then up 1%.

Investing in the major banks like RBC and TD might be something to look into. Bank of Canada giving away free money.

I'm actually looking at buying property right now. It's kind of refreshing how little bullshit there is, though tracking the interest rates right now feels like gambling- 0.5% a week or two ago, now ~3%, maybe lower soon. I feel like I'm taking advantage of someone tho.

I think alot of the Trump supporters are still working driving trucks, getting ready to plant crops, fords getting ready to pump out ventilators, the pillow guy is making masks. I wouldn't be surprised to see most of America going back to work by Easter. theres a whole lot more to America than California and New York and Florida

please, trumpies only post on internet forums in arguments

 

[markz]

I'm actually looking at buying property right now. It's kind of refreshing how little bullshit there is, though tracking the interest rates right now feels like gambling- 0.5% a week or two ago, now ~3%, maybe lower soon. I feel like I'm taking advantage of someone tho.

I always got my eye on the real estate market.

www.realtor.ca here in Canada

What do you use?

Bill Burr had a podcast of driving neighborhoods, cracking jokes. Sponsored by Zillow, american no doubt.

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

I'm actually looking at buying property right now. It's kind of refreshing how little bullshit there is, though tracking the interest rates right now feels like gambling- 0.5% a week or two ago, now ~3%, maybe lower soon. I feel like I'm taking advantage of someone tho.

I always got my eye on the real estate market.

www.realtor.ca here in Canada

What do you use?

Bill Burr had a podcast of driving neighborhoods, cracking jokes. Sponsored by Zillow, american no doubt.

Zillow and a local company's system since they've basically monopolized the area. I'd rather not show since I'd rather not everyone have an idea of where I live, but I'm near one of the fastest growing ZIP codes in the nation.

God bless Bill Burr, his live philly rip is basically how I live and talk.

 

[markz]

Zillow and a local company's system since they've basically monopolized the area. I'd rather not show since I'd rather not everyone have an idea of where I live, but I'm near one of the fastest growing ZIP codes in the nation.

God bless Bill Burr, his live philly rip is basically how I live and talk.

Damn, so you gotta go to each individually ---- Re/Max, Coldwell Banker, Century 21 etc
What a pain

 

[goatman]

bill burr philly rip, hilarious, 2 MINUTES.

when I think of the greedy bankers right now I usually hear Bill Burrs greedy old mans voice.

realtylink, realtor.ca has the good mapping. I was going to buy last year but I just didn't want to have renters in a house that was 5hrs by car from me and im pretty much in Vancouver for 5 years before I can leave

 

[Dauntless]

please, trumpies only post on internet forums in arguments

Why are you crashing their thread to start your real estate fantasies? Terribly rude of you all around.

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

here in Canada were buying up the mortgages from the Banks so we don't pop the real estate bubble.
Bank of Canada is planning $150 billion with much more to come at the rate of $500 million a week/ 2 billion a month for as long as it takes.

so it sounds like the Bank of Canada can just print money and buy up the mortgages interest free but that's not the case.
when Canada signed the trade agreement with Europe there was a clause in the agreement saying the Bank of Canada is no longer able to print money, they have to borrow the cash with interest from some central bank somewhere.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/real-estate/canada-has-put-housing-markets-on-life-support-heres-whats-happening/ar-BB12gOw1?ocid=spartanntp

Funny enough, America is looking at doing something similar to avoid deflation from our massive pile of debt. I've heard this second hand from friends in the finance industry, so grain of salt and all:

Print 2, $1 trillion dollar coins. Not bills! Minting new bills requires the agreement between all three sides of American Government- but minting new COINS only comes down to the Federal Reserve (the law isn't specific), and they haven't done anything since the Sacajawea dollar. Since you could tie the $2 Trillion "Loan" to 2 coins jammed in the basement somewhere, Orange Man would just have to say which dead person (probably a war criminal at this rate) he'd like on em' and the initial debt would be stuck to a physical currency.

Sucks to hear they had to preform such a bailout, but it's kind of understandable tbh. Everything's so leveraged now in debt, it makes me happy that the millennial generation in America is focusing on complete financial independence and control. Sometimes.

Damn, so you gotta go to each individually ---- Re/Max, Coldwell Banker, Century 21 etc
What a pain

Eh, it's okay. Besides, the more people I have taking pics of a house, the more I can see- one of them let me see mold without seeing the house first!

bill burr philly rip, hilarious, 2 MINUTES.

when I think of the greedy bankers right now I usually hear Bill Burrs greedy old mans voice.

realtylink, realtor.ca has the good mapping. I was going to buy last year but I just didn't want to have renters in a house that was 5hrs by car from me and im pretty much in Vancouver for 5 years before I can leave

I feel that about my current city too. It'll be a few years until I finish my most recent degree and new license before I can leave, though I'd rather build than buy. Honestly tho, it comes down to what's better for the environment for me at this rate.

Like that meme about world debt -

Apparently the global debt is about 1000 trillion dollars. Who do we owe? Jupiter? :?

Ever read about the South Sea Company Scandal? It took the UK 200 years to pay it off, and they still have bills to pay on it (I think they made another payment in 2007?).

 

[markz]

Print more money, means inflation, means the usd loses its value.

Lets say for example, that some money counterfeiter injected a ton of cash into an economy. The checks and balancing would never know there is an extra $2T in the economy. So the counterfeiter has to spend that money.
Buying mansions
Buying land
Buying Jets
Buying islands
Giving money to friends and family to buy all dat
Those friends and family give it to their family and friends to buy all dat

How would inflation happen, products increase in value, the dollar loses value.

Dump trillions from the federal reserve, there is less leeway, more oversight, more inflation.

 

[Balmorhea]

Print more money, means inflation, means the usd loses its value.

Lets say for example, that some money counterfeiter injected a ton of cash into an economy. The checks and balancing would never know there is an extra $2T in the economy. So the counterfeiter has to spend that money.

One United States paper banknote weighs one gram. So let’s assume the funny money is denominated as hundreds. That would be 20,000 metric tons of Benjamins. If they were new, crisp, and solidly stacked, they could fill an American football field, including end zones, to a depth of fourteen feet. That’s one way to picture how much $2T is.

All the United States physical cash in circulation worldwide is less than $2T. The most recent figure I found is from February of this year: $1.75T of physical cash, total.

The gross domestic product of Canada last year was USD $1.74 trillion.

$2 trillion is equivalent to $15,500 for each and every household in the USA.

 

[jonescg]

Normally inflation is considered a bad thing, but right now we have stagflation; stagnant wages and low inflation.

If household buying power increases (higher employment and/or higher wages) then the cost of stuff goes up to match that demand.

So it seems if you're going to print imaginary money and borrow it from the future so that folks can stay fed and housed, now's probably the best time to be doing it.

I don't really know all that much about economics, but then again, neither does anyone really :?

 

[stan.distortion]

...
I don't really know all that much about economics, but then again, neither does anyone really :?

That's by design. Economics is an exact science and isn't hard to understand but what we have today isn't really economics, economology would be a more fitting title. We're not supposed to understand it and instead put all our (blind) faith in its most devout followers. In the words of Henry Ford "It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."

Germanies economic recovery between the great depression and WW2 was the greatest economic achievement of our age and the key figure behind it was Hjalmar Schacht. He's a more significant figure in economics than Keynes or Hayek yet his name is very rarely heard. Much of that is due to the Nazi connection (he was never a member and was totally against rearmament) but imo it's mostly because his principles where very easy to understand. His autobiography is titled "The Magic of Money" and there are plenty of free translations on the net, a fairly easy read and very relevant to the times we live in.