A Very Very Low Cost Electric Bike from Pakistan

Gordo said:
Naeem;
As your bike build seems to be a bit of a utility vehicle, have you considered a tadpole trike? Are your paths not suitable?

Here is a great build from an expert dumpster diver.

Well I thought of a ricksaw like setup but when it comes to traffic jams My God they are miserable. I bought a Ravi Piaggio 125 cc bike a year ago of which the handle-bar was a about 2 – 2.5 ft wide. I was unable to pass through most of the jammed traffic situations where most bikes would pass through easily. Having a wide trike would be same has a broad handle bar. I’m thinking about making front wheel tilting trike setup like I once found on internet where the front wheels were not more than about 1.5 to 2 ft wide.

Moreover, most roads are broken and corrupt politicians are not paying any attention towards rebuilding them. A shock absorber is a must in any case here. A fast cruising e-bike / trike without any shock absorbers would be a very bumpy ride and might not be safe at all.

Thanks for your response.

Sincerely
Naeem
 
This is the tilting trike I'm talking about in my earlier post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q8p2q0p4rc&feature=related

I like this as the wheels in front are not that wide.

Sincerely
Naeem
 
I can see where even a narrow tilting trike could give you fits in crowded traffic. Would it be possible to fashion a lock on one or more of your hinges to make the trike "nontilting" for those situations, but you could release it to be tilting for the easier spots? Best of both worlds, maybe - able to get through anywhere and then have a little fun when possible (I'd also think a non-tilting narrow trike might tip you off to the outside going around a curve just a little too fast :( ).

Cameron
 
oldpiper said:
I can see where even a narrow tilting trike could give you fits in crowded traffic. Would it be possible to fashion a lock on one or more of your hinges to make the trike "nontilting" for those situations, but you could release it to be tilting for the easier spots? Best of both worlds, maybe - able to get through anywhere and then have a little fun when possible (I'd also think a non-tilting narrow trike might tip you off to the outside going around a curve just a little too fast :( ).

Cameron

Two possibilities:
1) Tilt with the turn of a handle
or
2) Tilt with the force of the body as we do in bicycle/motorcycle. Only transfer of the body to the side. In sports biking I have to use my hip alongwith my entire body to tilt a sports bike while turning.

and of course the third situation where you explained in the afore-cited para "a lock" to have a tilt or not.

Which one is the best guys. Your precious feedback on this will be highly appreciated. :wink:

Sincerely
Naeem
 
This is getting out of my comfort zone mechanically so I don't want to give you bad advise. Have you searched here for all the threads on these type machines?
 
numberonebikeslover said:
Two possibilities:
1) Tilt with the turn of a handle
or
2) Tilt with the force of the body as we do in bicycle/motorcycle. Only transfer of the body to the side. In sports biking I have to use my hip alongwith my entire body to tilt a sports bike while turning.

and of course the third situation where you explained in the afore-cited para "a lock" to have a tilt or not.
I don't know which is best, but my current plans for my trike involve being able to just lean the front half of a (delta) trike during turns, with the two-wheel section in the rear staying level and flat but the higher-mass part with me on it leaning just like a bike would.

The pivot would be just in front of the mounting hardware for the rear wheel section, whcih if I can work out the geometry for it will also be on a rear swingarm so that I can still have a rear suspension (though it will not be independent per-wheel, just the whole rear end as one unit, still better than none at all).

I will probably use a locking mechanism that lets me squeeze a handle modified from a brake handle to disengage it so I can lean during a turn, but still lock it upright.

I also am considering a "detent" type spring-loaded pivot, which would require a certain amount of leaning force before it would unlock, and then it would just unlock and let me lean over as far as necessary, until I return to upright after the turn and it would relock by spring force. Kind of like the little pin on crutches or canes that holds them at their set length.
 
amberwolf said:
being able to just lean the front half of a (delta) trike during turns, with the two-wheel section in the rear staying level and flat but the higher-mass part with me on it leaning just like a bike would.

This strategy also appeals me but my bitter experience with bikes is that when rear of the bike slips there are chances to recover but the front end slips there is no way in the world that one could recover from that. This compels me to go for two wheels in front.

amberwolf said:
I also am considering a "detent" type spring-loaded pivot, which would require a certain amount of leaning force before it would unlock, and then it would just unlock and let me lean over as far as necessary, until I return to upright after the turn and it would relock by spring force. Kind of like the little pin on crutches or canes that holds them at their set length.

I have in mind a set of springs that would enforce and keep the bike leveled until some force applied by the rider to lean. I like your locking mechanism where at certain point when the bike gets leveled it locks, i might add this feature as well. In my case the bike will try to level its self due to springs in action until little force is applied. What do you think about my strategy please do let me know.

Respectfully Yours
Naeem
 
torker said:
This is getting out of my comfort zone mechanically so I don't want to give you bad advise. Have you searched here for all the threads on these type machines?

My dear friend;

I have gone through some of the posts about the tilting bikes, but have not gone into the depth due to time constraint. Please do post me useful links if you find any.

Sincerely
Naeem
 
numberonebikeslover said:
This strategy also appeals me but my bitter experience with bikes is that when rear of the bike slips there are chances to recover but the front end slips there is no way in the world that one could recover from that. This compels me to go for two wheels in front.
The only reason I'm doing two in back one front right now is that I have the delta kit in hand, and can experiment iwth it easily. I have a tadpole version in planning, but have too little time to commit to it right now. :)


I have in mind a set of springs that would enforce and keep the bike leveled until some force applied by the rider to lean. I like your locking mechanism where at certain point when the bike gets leveled it locks, i might add this feature as well. In my case the bike will try to level its self due to springs in action until little force is applied. What do you think about my strategy please do let me know.
[/quote]
The springs are probably a good idea; it's been suggested to me that I shoudl do that too, by a few people. I probably will, but the first version will likely not have them until I can verify that the tilting mechanism even works at all for what I want. :)
 
Dear All;

This is the controller I’ve made for my e-bike with subsequent experimentation and failures. I kept on studying different circuits on the internet and the one that impressed me a lot for its simplicity and fewer components is shown in the diagram in the following. Please feel free to comment.

Six IRFP 150N FETs, Two Diods 30 amps each, and a pulse width Modulator of 555 IC and that’s all it contains. The Pulse Width Modulator works on 12 volt while the FET part has 48 volts to handle. So both circuits have a common – ev voltage but respective +voltage 12 and 48.

I’m just a beginner in electronics, so please do let me know if I can improve my circuit.

Respectfully
Naeem

PS. I hope I'm not breaking any rules of the forum as I'm listening to one of the best song of the century if you ask me. I would like to share with members:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5BJtnGajpQ
 

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Dear Naeem,

I am the son of the 85 year McCoul that left his first post here with his recollections of Peshawar some 60 years ago. I am writing because of the inspiration you have given so many of us here. I'm sure your inspiration has found home in many other places. I quoted the above, because you have steadfastly declined assistance from others. This is admirable and I do not wish you to change. I have an idea though. The idea is for you to give to others and help the many here that would like to do also.

This is something that I believe in religiously that Helping others is the reason I exist. If I can be of any assistance to any one, I feel my self as a lucky man.

How about you set up a PayPal account for contributions and accept donations of equipment from those who wish to give. In order not to compromise your principals, all that is given can be given to others along with the precious gift of your knowledge and time.

Oh my God John you are a man of great vision. I wish I had that in mind. It is great idea and I will never forget in my life time. “Help me in order to help others through my time and knowledge”. It is definitely a great responsibility as well and I pray Lord that I may fulfill it to the extent it is acceptable to Lord. It is getting clear to me. The problem is that in Pakistan pay pall account is not available. If some one want to send money then it could only be done through Western Union.

For a start you might build the eRickshaw you have envisioned for someone that is not physically capable of operating or affording the cost of a human powered version. Imagine giving a source of income to someone with very limited opportunity. With the support of others eager to help, you could come up with a design that combines the junkyard parts with necessary new parts while maintaining the "very very low cost" mantra. Your design can serve as a template to provide opportunity for others.

I admire, you are a man of great vision. I will definitely start my work on the e-rickshaw immediately. And I will provide a list of things in need if some one is willing to help would be accepted on the condition that it would benefit others. I would produce a prototype which will be sanctioned by the Government of Pakistan for further production in the market.

P.S., Note the date on my picture. I'm a bit older now.

You know John, I’m 38 years old but still I sometime behave like a teenager. My heart is still young. That’s why I always say to my friends that I’m 38 years young (not old).

Respectfully Yours
Naeem
 
Dear All;

After completing my recumbent bicycle part, today I worked on the electric bike part of my project. The rear wheel has on both sides two different gears. On one side a seven gear cassette free-wheel which is meant for transferring paddling power to the wheel. The other side has a gear of 48 tooth fixed on the hub, done by me using my common sense and experience. It is welded in such a way that there is no vibration or wobbling. I would quote here that I do not have a machine or lathe for metal work. So what ever I do, I do it with simple cheap tools. The only electric tools are drilling machine, a grinder cutter and a arc weld machine. It is true that when there is a will there is a way, and believe me there are always ways to do difficult tasks with simple tools and techniques. But, when there is an issue of perfection, specialized machines are essential. In the beginning it was dropping chain but now it is working fine (click the following link for a youtube video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1FZX20_w8I

Tomorrow I’ll ride to see how it works in different situation of torques and speeds. What I’ve notice now that I’ve put the weight of my batteries and everything it has a very good road grip as yesterday a child came in front of me and I had to hit the breaks very quickly. It stopped immediately. Thanks God! Nothing went wrong.

Please feel free to comment and feedback. It will indeed be highly appreciated.

Respectfully
Naeem
 
numberonebikeslover said:
Dear All;

This is the controller I’ve made for my e-bike with subsequent experimentation and failures. I kept on studying different circuits on the internet and the one that impressed me a lot for its simplicity and fewer components is shown in the diagram in the following. Please feel free to comment.

Six IRFP 150N FETs, Two Diods 30 amps each, and a pulse width Modulator of 555 IC and that’s all it contains. The Pulse Width Modulator works on 12 volt while the FET part has 48 volts to handle. So both circuits have a common – ev voltage but respective +voltage 12 and 48.

I’m just a beginner in electronics, so please do let me know if I can improve my circuit.

Respectfully
Naeem

Hi Naeem,

You moded the cct. diagram you posted right? One thing i notice in that diagram is the capacitor in the input supply is only rated at 25v it will not survive long at 48v or did you totally removed it as part of the mod because i don't see it in the box. Also if i read the value of the capacitor C1 correctly this cct. only produces between 0 - 7 hz of frequency which is hard on the FETS or did you re-calculate the value for the frequency. Can you also described exactly how long you used it before it failed. Did it failed while climbing a hill or did it fail on the first try while your on the bike?

Can you draw and post the cct. diagram after the mod.




I'm the owner of the green tadpole trike that Gordo posted. The trike in my avatar is my second build both frame were maid from recycle materials things that people throw away in the garbage just because they don't want to fix it and can afford a new one mind set. I grow up in a place that we had nothing, so in my younger years i learned to find anything i could find and make something out if it for a toy. That developed imagination never left me all this years, i can totally relate to your awesome projects.

Zenon
 
numberonebikeslover said:
Six IRFP 150N FETs, Two Diods 30 amps each, and a pulse width Modulator of 555 IC and that’s all it contains. The Pulse Width Modulator works on 12 volt while the FET part has 48 volts to handle. So both circuits have a common – ev voltage but respective +voltage 12 and 48.

I’m just a beginner in electronics, so please do let me know if I can improve my circuit.
I'm sure you could improve it, but every improvement may also add complication, and that means more things that could go wrong. ;)

If it operates the way you want it to now, I'd leave it as-is, and if you want to change things then build a second one (if you can get the parts to do so). Then you always have a backup unit in case an experiment fails and blows stuff up (a fairly common problem in my experience. :oops:)

The main thing I myself would change is to add large electrolytic (can-style) capacitors right at the Diodes/FETs, with + on the can to the +48V (cathode of the diodes) and - on the can to ground (the Source pin of the FETs). This is what C3 in your diagram is doing. You can use the ones out of old computer power supplies, if you have any. The large ones where AC power comes in are usually good, because they have very high voltage ratings, and reasonably large capacitance. Two to four of them in parallel may be enough for this controller. Basically what they do is help suppress the spikes and dips produced by the motor brushes and coils during switching and commutation. Without them, it's possible for a FET to become damaged and fail catastrophically, which may take others with it depending on how it fails and what else is happening at that moment in the system.

I would also add some smaller ones in parallel with these, but there probably won't be many or any in a PC power supply with a high enough voltage rating. Maybe in a large UPS (battery backup) or similar system. They'd need to be at least 63V capacitors, with one around 50uF and one around 5uF. They will also be can-style.

Then on the 555, I'd put some similar small can-style caps across the 12V input leads right at the chip (+ cap lead to +12V, and - cap lead to ground). They don't have to be rated for any more than 16V to 25V. I'd start with a 20 to 50uF, and parallel a small solid-style (like the greenish ones you're already using) one with it, with a value of 0.1uF to 1uF.

There are other things to bulletproof the design, but each one adds more failure points that could stop it from working if something went wrong with them, although they add protections in case a different thing goes wrong.
 
zenon said:
Hi Naeem,

You moded the cct. diagram you posted right? One thing i notice in that diagram is the capacitor in the input supply is only rated at 25v it will not survive long at 48v or did you totally removed it as part of the mod because i don't see it in the box.

Yes sir, i removed it as it made no difference (i felt may be due to the fact that i'm just a biginner in electronics). Now that Amberwolf has explained in his response, it is necessary to put high capacity and high rated voltage capacitors i would do this as i find time to work.

Also if i read the value of the capacitor C1 correctly this cct. only produces between 0 - 7 hz of frequency which is hard on the FETS or did you re-calculate the value for the frequency. Can you also described exactly how long you used it before it failed. Did it failed while climbing a hill or did it fail on the first try while your on the bike?

Can you draw and post the cct. diagram after the mod.

It never failed because my motor is just about 200 watts. I was using 4 FETS while it crashed only i left the bike on a place where children messed it up and it kept on for about half an hour. It is just that throttle was little otherwise bike would have jumped or accelerated. When i came back to it the FETS were all burnt off. So I used 6 FETS in parallel which solved my problem. Moreover, I'm just a no body in electronics. Please do the correction if you think is necessary. Your precious feedback and help will be highly appreciated, please.

I grow up in a place that we had nothing, so in my younger years i learned to find anything i could find and make something out if it for a toy. That developed imagination never left me all this years, i can totally relate to your awesome projects.

Thats the kind of place i'm living here with nothing. I have such a huge collection of things which may seem to others as useless but i've collected it from different junkyards in my city and at times they prove to be the most useful objects during my built.

Thank you very much for your response. Please do help me improve it if you can.

with warm regards.
Naeem
 
amberwolf said:
I'm sure you could improve it, but every improvement may also add complication, and that means more things that could go wrong. ;)

The main thing I myself would change is to add large electrolytic (can-style) capacitors right at the Diodes/FETs, with + on the can to the +48V (cathode of the diodes) and - on the can to ground (the Source pin of the FETs). This is what C3 in your diagram is doing. You can use the ones out of old computer power supplies, if you have any. The large ones where AC power comes in are usually good, because they have very high voltage ratings, and reasonably large capacitance. Two to four of them in parallel may be enough for this controller. Basically what they do is help suppress the spikes and dips produced by the motor brushes and coils during switching and commutation. Without them, it's possible for a FET to become damaged and fail catastrophically, which may take others with it depending on how it fails and what else is happening at that moment in the system.

Yes sir, I'm going to do this as i find time to work. I removed the one C3 470 uF 25v working as i found it making no difference (forgive me for being ignorant) Now that i know it is essential, i will find one large one may be 2500 uF 63v and add two of them right a way. Correct me if i'm wrong. Paralleling of Capacitors increase capacity?
That is what is supposed to be done right.

I would also add some smaller ones in parallel with these, but there probably won't be many or any in a PC power supply with a high enough voltage rating. Maybe in a large UPS (battery backup) or similar system. They'd need to be at least 63V capacitors, with one around 50uF and one around 5uF. They will also be can-style.

Where may I put the smaller ones in my diagram?

Then on the 555, I'd put some similar small can-style caps across the 12V input leads right at the chip (+ cap lead to +12V, and - cap lead to ground). They don't have to be rated for any more than 16V to 25V.

I would do that right away.

I'd start with a 20 to 50uF, and parallel a small solid-style (like the greenish ones you're already using) one with it, with a value of 0.1uF to 1uF.
parallel with the supply capacitor (which is not there in the diagram) of 555 IC and may be polyester film capacitors right?

There are other things to bulletproof the design, but each one adds more failure points that could stop it from working if something went wrong with them, although they add protections in case a different thing goes wrong.

A man with such a meager resources and income, i would rather not experiment with the risk of failure. I would improve it but with the suggestions of the members.

Thank you very much for your precious feedback and support.

Respectfully
Naeem
 

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Hello Every body;

At last I rewound my motor. Before rewind I took a reading on my amp meter. It drew about 4 to 5 amps on 48 volts. So its 192 to 240 Watts approximately.

In order to increase its power, I decided to increase the power by adding one battery pack and increase voltage. To bear these voltage, I also intended to increase number of turns per coil from 23 turns to 30 turns per coil.

Following pictures will show the details of it and a video soon I will upload a Youtube video.

As the power is suppose to increase so i've to strengthen the gear on the shaft. The relative picture shows an update.

I hope the commutator will bear with these high voltages.

The FETS I'm using are IRFP 150 N which can withstand 100 volts so i'm on the safe side. Still room to go up in this regard.

It was really very difficult to accumulate more wire in the rotor. My hands are still painful of the pressure i applied to push more wire during rewinding. There is really no more room for a single turn i guess.

Copper wire i bought was really very expensive and have disturbed my entire months budget. It was about 550 Rs. 6.395 USD, But there are things that only people like us can understand.

I remember a song in English in which the poet says "But there are things that only all lovers understand", We'll Light a fire in the morning, keep it burning strong. So guys its all about keeping the fire burning.

Wish me luck and any useful feed back will be highly appreciated.

With warm regards.
Naeem
 

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Hi Naeem,

I see your becoming a pro on rewinding , very nice job :D what do you think is the over all milage on that motor.

I have dug out my long hidden cct. bread board and some electronic components so that i can build the 555 timer cct. you have. Just to show you were to improve the cct.

The following is scope pictures is defined in sequence

1.) breadboard setup
2.) Gate pulse at zero throttle
3.) Gate pulse at 50 percent throttle
4.) Gate pulse at 100 percent throttle
5.) main supply input with capacitor filter
6.) main supply input without capacitor filter

First i recalculate your cct. frequency and it around 300hz which is ok in this application.

1.)Just to show you that your motor is not totally off at zero throttle, picture 2 is the gate pulse of the fet at zero throttle, which means the motor is on but don't have enough current to turn it over. This will drain your battery a bit and heat up the mosfets no big deal while seating in traffic jam but big deal if you park the bike for a long time. If you want to improve this you can take pin #4 of the 555 timer which is now wired to the 12v supply. Cut the 12v supply off, then wire a switch of any kind big or small doesn't matter from pin#4 to ground. This will give you the on/off for the controller. But its still a good practice to unplug main power from the controller when the bike is park and lock up.

2.) picture 3 and 4 is just for comparison to picture 2

3.) Picture 5, this is what it looks like with a big capacitor in the input supply of 48V to ground, the small spike you see is cause by the back emf of the motor while at zero throttle, the big capacitor cannot totally filter it but this is ok because the top of the ring is with in the supply voltage.

4.) Picture 6, this is what it looks like without a big capacitor in the input supply of 48V to ground, this is something you don't want in the cct., the spike voltage is almost equal to the supply voltage. Which means that during riding the spike voltage + the supply voltage can add up over 100v :shock: no good. It will degrade your fets and blow.

P.S when you parallel a capacitor the capacitance gets larger, when you series a capacitor the capacitance get smaller.
formula for parallel Ctotal = C1+C2+C3+C4+C5+ etc.

The capacitor that has a + and - sign is called a polarized capacitor, this can only be hooked up + to + and - to - if hooked up backward in the supply section electrolytic and tantalum type will blow up like a fire cracker and makes a big mess. Also you cannot exceed the the voltage rating of the capacitor or it will blow up as will.

Tricks with the polarized capacitor,

- you can hooked up two capacitor either way - to - or + to + in series and it becomes none polarized , the two leg remain can be hooked up either way in the supply voltage, other benefit is that the two voltage rating in the capacitor adds up together.
Example: 35v capacitor tied in series to a 50v will become 85v in total, but capacitance gets less is series here's the formula for series 1/Ctotal = 1/C1 + 1/C2 + 1/C3 + 1/C4 etc.



Zenon
 

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Here is a video about the rewinding my motor, sitting on the top floor of my house in the sun and my brother in law is making my video. I'm instructing him in Pushto language.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MArqjrtF2i0
 
zenon said:
Hi Naeem,

I see your becoming a pro on rewinding , very nice job :D what do you think is the over all milage on that motor.

I have dug out my long hidden cct. bread board and some electronic components so that i can build the 555 timer cct. you have. Just to show you were to improve the cct.

Thanks man I'm so thankful to you for the pain you are taking to help me. Really don't have words to thank you enough.

About the milage: the motor before it was wound with 48v it was giving me round about 20 km per charge with 10 Ah SLAs. I'm hoping to get 30 plus with this rewind.

Respectfully
Naeem
 
Can any body tell me how to calculate the wattage etc. if i have the resistance of the motor. I had a formula before now i've lost the papers where i did the calculations. My motor reads 1.5 ohms not the single coil but on the brushes. I'll be running it on 60v.

Naeem
 
zenon said:
Hi Naeem,

I see your becoming a pro on rewinding , very nice job :D what do you think is the over all milage on that motor.

I have dug out my long hidden cct. bread board and some electronic components so that i can build the 555 timer cct. you have. Just to show you were to improve the cct.

Zenon;
I can send you some 555's if you need them. I have a stick full here.
 
numberonebikeslover said:
Can any body tell me how to calculate the wattage etc. if i have the resistance of the motor. I had a formula before now i've lost the papers where i did the calculations. My motor reads 1.5 ohms not the single coil but on the brushes. I'll be running it on 60v.

Naeem

Naeem;
I don't think you can calculate the wattage from the internal resistance, only the heat loss or what is called copper loss?

EDIT

Maybe look here for formula; http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/electrical-motor-efficiency-d_655.html

Edit 2;
In your video I hear you say 240W (4amps at 60V). Perhaps you are just looking for 240/746=0.32HP?
 
Gordo said:
zenon said:
Hi Naeem,

I see your becoming a pro on rewinding , very nice job :D what do you think is the over all milage on that motor.

I have dug out my long hidden cct. bread board and some electronic components so that i can build the 555 timer cct. you have. Just to show you were to improve the cct.

Zenon;
I can send you some 555's if you need them. I have a stick full here.

Hi Gordo,

Thanks, i found some in the pile, I know where to get some next time :wink:

Zenon
 
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