Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

[ccmdr]

Well a house with a cellar, a large one and large tools with a bench PSU... Envious :lol:

Your bob on, the Adaptto page is saying exactly as it should with a 0,1,0 H1/2/3/4/5/6 etc... It definetly is having problems with phase and Hall detection if it's running SLESS fine.

Seeing as you've checked each individual Hall sensor with power on and rotating the wheel, btw did each hall measure 4.36v like the video, from what I could tell the voltage shown was just the VDD voltage?

The Halls do have to be setup correctly in sequence, I've read about that previously in this uber thread. The Adaptto wiring diagram does actually show which Hall should be which, it just means pulling a cover off. However, your video shows a clear H6-H1 countdown indicating the sequence is fine.

Have issues myself with 'Autodetect' and the Cro v3, but not the HS3540. Sometimes have to 'stall' the Cro at 'Autodetect' for 5 seconds and then let it continue as norm. As in mount the wheel on your bike, put the bike on a stand where you can 'see-saw' the front and rear wheel off the ground easily. Sit on the bike, lean back (stall the hub), start 'Autodetect' 5-10 seconds (stall) then lean forward (release stall).

I think you'd need to check the hub and controller separately, do you have the ability to you swap either motor or sensored controller?

Btw your V2 Cro should have 2 sets of Halls, have you tried both? The Halls are 120Deg apart so thats not an issue.

 

[ccmdr]

@ korpin - The USB on the Adaptto is USB 1.x or 2, can't remember which. So thats 5v and 0.5A MAX. Even then you don't want to draw that much as it's piggy-backed from the display.

In the pedantic sense 'yes' the controller/display is a DC-DC as it transforms a higher voltage to a lower version. However, it is not a 'dedicated' DC-DC which can handle much more than the 1 Watt output. For example this little one can produce 55W of the good stuff.

Much like trying to play Crysis on a integrated GPU and expecting GTX 980Ti performance .

 

[Altair]

brooklands, sorry but I'm out of ideas for the moment.
Can't imagine why it wouldn't work with the resistive throttle.

Oh! An idea... Can you check the voltage of the wiper while all 3 wires are connected to the Adaptto.
Maybe it's because the Adaptto has a too low input impedance for the 5K of the throttle. That would pull the voltage down, except at full throttle however, where you would see the cursor jump up to the right.

 

[madin88]

There should be no problem with 5k Ohm throttles.
Since i got the Max-E which is now over two years ago, i have tried three different kinds.
First the AWI Emaxi Thumb type, than Magura twist and later the Domino twist. All worked well, except that the AWI seems to have a very poor quality pot because it died two times very quick (in adaptto thr calibartion menu the bars jump crazy up and down when pushing the lever). I would not recommend using the AWI, but no problems so far with the Magura and Domino. The Domino i like the most because it has very soft rubber grip and feels most comfortable in hands.

 

[brooklands]

brooklands, sorry but I'm out of ideas for the moment.
Can't imagine why it wouldn't work with the resistive throttle.

Oh! An idea... Can you check the voltage of the wiper while all 3 wires are connected to the Adaptto.
Maybe it's because the Adaptto has a too low input impedance for the 5K of the throttle. That would pull the voltage down, except at full throttle however, where you would see the cursor jump up to the right.

I don't know if I get you right but all the voltage measurements were done with the wires connected to the adaptto as described above.

Assuming that the adaptto has a too low input impedance what would be the solution to fix this problem?

There should be no problem with 5k Ohm throttles.
Since i got the Max-E which is now over two years ago, i have tried three different kinds.
First the AWI Emaxi Thumb type, than Magura twist and later the Domino twist. All worked well, except that the AWI seems to have a very poor quality pot because it died two times very quick (in adaptto thr calibartion menu the bars jump crazy up and down when pushing the lever). I would not recommend using the AWI, but no problems so far with the Magura and Domino. The Domino i like the most because it has very soft rubber grip and feels most comfortable in hands.

I tried several throttles before, too. First one was the Magura which worked ok on 90% of the throttle angle. But on full throttle it produced an annoying jerking which I never get rid of. Then I tried a few hall sensor throttle which were all different in their response characteristics. In the end I got my current half grip throttle which is ok in responsiveness and characteristic but feels like a cactus in your hand and destroys the ergonomics on the bike. That's why I am looking for a full grip throttle which can be used with a normal motorbike grip (my roots are in enduro motorbikes so this is the feeling I prefer). Unfortunately I found no hall throttle so far which suits my demands so I tried the (expensive) domino. But as you can see with no luck so far.

With the magura I also tested a second Adaptto Mini-E but problems remained the same. I assume that it's only my bad karma

 

[ridethelightning]

bad luck indeed.
in all my dealings with different throttles, they have all worked just fine with adaptto, domino,magura, wuxing hall throttle...

 

[Willow]

...theres a good chance that the wires that are soldered onto the pot in the throttle are frayed slightly... and get twisted up when you give it full rotation... 3 of my Magura throttles have been like this. Open it and check this to start. While it's open you can set the pot back a couple notches in the gearing - to bring that 90% mark closer to 100% and possibly eliminate the problem.

 

[brooklands]

Unfortunately I don't have the Magura anymore. I gave it back to the manufacturer of my middrive and got the other throttles for testing. The Domino is the first one I bought separately.

Meanwhile I think that the problem of the Magura was caused by a too high upper voltage on full throttle which the Adaptto couldn't deal with. I should have tried a small resistor to decrease the voltage. But too late...

But I will keep on fighting with the Domino...or find a good hall type throttle :wink: .

 

[bigbore]

With my hall throttle the cursor behaves normal and moves between 1.1 an 3.8 V.

Did you tried the domino throttle with the above limits in the Thr limits menu?

 

[korpin]

@ korpin - The USB on the Adaptto is USB 1.x or 2, can't remember which. So thats 5v and 0.5A MAX. Even then you don't want to draw that much as it's piggy-backed from the display.

In the pedantic sense 'yes' the controller/display is a DC-DC as it transforms a higher voltage to a lower version. However, it is not a 'dedicated' DC-DC which can handle much more than the 1 Watt output. For example this little one can produce 55W of the good stuff.

Much like trying to play Crysis on a integrated GPU and expecting GTX 980Ti performance .

well I only need 5 volts and less than one amp so that be ok...so can I just hook that up to USB on controller to keep GPS internal battery topped off without having to use coil or do you think wattage is still too low?.....

AND DOES the UBS port still put out 5 volts after display goes off?....never even thought of checking that but if it does not then will not work for my application

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Hi guy's

So I've still got this issue I previously posted about where my Mini-E is reducing amps to my motor when it gets to around 65C.
The KTY-84 temp sensor in my motor isn't working, but I have another I use on a separate display and it seems like the controller is still trying to limit power to protect the motor.

I've tried playing around with all the temp settings, turning off the sensor mode, setting max temp to 200C, and changing the sensor type, but nothing seems to stop it clamping amps when the motor reaches around 65C.
It's super annoying as I know this motor could easily take 100C+ without issue, but every time I go up a hill, half way up I see power dropping lower and lower. :x

I'm pretty sure it's not the controller Fets as I've taken this motor and my Leaf motor up over 100C plenty of times without issue in the past.
This issue has only been occurring with my HS4080 since the last time I remounted it after repairing damaged/twisted wires and adding Ferro Fluid.

Any advice appreciated.

Cheers

 

[ccmdr]

@korpin - A low power GPS/phone or MP3/4 would work fine charging with USB 1.x/2.0. However, I'd check your unit and ensure it's power draw is no more than 0.5A or 500mA which'd be most likely shown.

The display will not output power when the adaptto is switched off , honestly what your looking for is dedicated DC-DC territory. It's only £10 and you can hook up whatever led lights/gps/phones USB charge outlets as you like and have a seperate switch to control lights/USB charging and adaptto. If heaven forbid your do break down, cycling 10 miles without lights is taking an unnessicary risk .

@ CowardlyDuck - Just to be 100% sure, on the debug page (Two button press left) which show Hall configuartion 0,1,0 etc what does 'MosfetT' read when your Amp limit kicks in? Your previous post mentioned you were gathering temp info from your other display not from the Adaptto .

It'd be easiest (from what your explaination says) to replace/fix wiring the U/S KTY-84 in your motor. At least you'd have one extra display less and the Adaptto will get a true temp reading .

*Edit - Just another question , do you mount the Mini-E internally of the stealth frame I've browsed a few vids/pics, but not sure if it's an Adaptto mounted outside or another controller as your moving around so damn much :lol:.

 

[ridethelightning]

anyone had any issues with the QS v3 motor not running smooth with adaptto yet?
not that i have even tried to power mine up yet, just wondering if the deeper stator teeth have been an issue for anyone?

 

[brooklands]

With my hall throttle the cursor behaves normal and moves between 1.1 an 3.8 V.

Did you tried the domino throttle with the above limits in the Thr limits menu?

I tried every possible setting of the limits but nothing worked.

 

[madin88]

I tried every possible setting of the limits but nothing worked.

have you checked the small connector for throttle and e-brake?
i once had a bad connection (lost ground) and had similar, strange problems. after bending the pins of the male part the connection was OK, but i have replaced the connector.

 

[brooklands]

I tried every possible setting of the limits but nothing worked.

have you checked the small connector for throttle and e-brake?
i once had a bad connection (lost ground) and had similar, strange problems. after bending the pins of the male part the connection was OK, but i have replaced the connector.

At the moment there is no connector at all. All wires are soldered directly together.

 

[Altair]

I don't know if I get you right but all the voltage measurements were done with the wires connected to the adaptto as described above.

Assuming that the adaptto has a too low input impedance what would be the solution to fix this problem?

Sorry for the late reply, even if I'm subscribed to the thread, I do not get notices of new posts. Re-subscribing right now.

If the input impedance of the controller was too low, it would pull the voltage of the wiper down. The cure would be to get a pot with a lower value, like 2K or 1K, but but as others have mentionned, this throttle works well with the Adaptto, so this is not the problem.

As a further test, you could substitute the pot for a pair of resistors in series, any value between 1K and 10K. At one end of the series, you put 5V, the other end is connected to ground, and the center joint between both resistors will give you 2.5V if both values are the same. You should be able to see the cursor about mid-way on the Thr Limits panel.

 

[korpin]

@korpin
honestly what your looking for is dedicated DC-DC territory. It's only £10 and you can hook up whatever led lights/gps/phones USB charge outlets as you like and have a seperate switch to control lights/USB charging and adaptto

are you talking about the charging coil?...or some other device to get dc/dc?

 

[ccmdr]

Not the coil, just a bog standard inexpensive, dedicated DC-DC. Can't get any more hasstle free .

 

[brooklands]

I don't know if I get you right but all the voltage measurements were done with the wires connected to the adaptto as described above.

Assuming that the adaptto has a too low input impedance what would be the solution to fix this problem?

Sorry for the late reply, even if I'm subscribed to the thread, I do not get notices of new posts. Re-subscribing right now.

If the input impedance of the controller was too low, it would pull the voltage of the wiper down. The cure would be to get a pot with a lower value, like 2K or 1K, but but as others have mentionned, this throttle works well with the Adaptto, so this is not the problem.

As a further test, you could substitute the pot for a pair of resistors in series, any value between 1K and 10K. At one end of the series, you put 5V, the other end is connected to ground, and the center joint between both resistors will give you 2.5V if both values are the same. You should be able to see the cursor about mid-way on the Thr Limits panel.

Of course I could do this further test but I am not sure if I can proof anything with it. Measuring on the pot (on the wires) I already got the result that the Domino should be ok but the Adappto does not 'see' the voltage for whatever reason. So I guess it is the Adaptto/display which is working wrong. Maybe I should try to find another Adaptto to try if the throttle works better with this one.

But assuming that for some reason the input impedance on my Adaptto is too low: Changing the pot on the throttle seems not to be an option because it is encapsulated in some kind of glue. Is there a way to increase the input impedance of the Adaptto by simple means (maybe for testing purposes only), e.g. another resistor etc.?

 

[Cowardlyduck]

@ CowardlyDuck - Just to be 100% sure, on the debug page (Two button press left) which show Hall configuartion 0,1,0 etc what does 'MosfetT' read when your Amp limit kicks in? Your previous post mentioned you were gathering temp info from your other display not from the Adaptto .

It'd be easiest (from what your explaination says) to replace/fix wiring the U/S KTY-84 in your motor. At least you'd have one extra display less and the Adaptto will get a true temp reading .

*Edit - Just another question , do you mount the Mini-E internally of the stealth frame I've browsed a few vids/pics, but not sure if it's an Adaptto mounted outside or another controller as your moving around so damn much :lol:.

Thanks for the reply ccmdr.
I will make a note to check the FET temps next time, but given my setup and previous experience, I don't think that's it:

That's an older photo. Now I've removed the fans and added 2 extra heatsinks for more silent, but still very effective heat dissipation. It is mounted externally with thermal padding to the frame as shown.

I'm not inclined to fix the KTY-84 temp sensor in the motor really as I would have to pull apart the whole hub and remove a bunch of heat-shrink...not worth it IMO. I will do it if something else major breaks like hall sensors, that I need to open the hub for. The second temp display I run is always on anyway as I like the big red LED in your face style so I'm always aware of motor temps.

I guess what I really want to know/understand is, does the Adaptto try and predict motor temps without a sensor like I'm thinking, or is something else likely going on?

Cheers

 

[Altair]

Of course I could do this further test but I am not sure if I can proof anything with it. Measuring on the pot (on the wires) I already got the result that the Domino should be ok but the Adappto does not 'see' the voltage for whatever reason. So I guess it is the Adaptto/display which is working wrong. Maybe I should try to find another Adaptto to try if the throttle works better with this one.

But assuming that for some reason the input impedance on my Adaptto is too low: Changing the pot on the throttle seems not to be an option because it is encapsulated in some kind of glue. Is there a way to increase the input impedance of the Adaptto by simple means (maybe for testing purposes only), e.g. another resistor etc.?

There is no simple way to increase the input impedance of the controller. Just adding a resistance in series would be the equivalent of increasing the impedance of the source (your pot) so this is contrary to what we want to do.
You said earlier that you didn't have a problem with a hall-effect throttle, that's weird that the controller cannot see the voltage from a resistive divider, but it sees the voltage from an active device. I'm stumped.

 

[ccmdr]

Can't see FET temp being much of an issue with external mounting with heatsinks . Maybe it's like you say and they have a 'safety' feature built into the programming when it doesn't recieve a 'Motor Temp' signal. Maybe instead of 'fixing' the actual Motor Sensor.. just wire one in at the connector. It'd never get hot...hopefully , but it'd trick the Adaptto to run as per and it's not fiddly either .

Not sure if you've found this out, but it also has a similar feature when you don't set the Controllers temp sensor correctly. The Motor will run but then get limited soon after.

 

[korpin]

Not the coil, just a bog standard inexpensive, dedicated DC-DC. Can't get any more hasstle free .

oh i see

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Can't see FET temp being much of an issue with external mounting with heatsinks . Maybe it's like you say and they have a 'safety' feature built into the programming when it doesn't recieve a 'Motor Temp' signal. Maybe instead of 'fixing' the actual Motor Sensor.. just wire one in at the connector. It'd never get hot...hopefully , but it'd trick the Adaptto to run as per and it's not fiddly either .

Not sure if you've found this out, but it also has a similar feature when you don't set the Controllers temp sensor correctly. The Motor will run but then get limited soon after.

Of course....why didn't I think of that. :lol:

I have a spare KTY83 I will try this with at some stage.

Thanks for the idea!

Cheers