Aero mudguards. Yes they look gastly but they do work.

[neptronix]

I'm personally interested in the intersection between effectiveness, looks, and practicality when it comes to aerodynamic devices.
There's plenty of guys building extreme things that look goofy and are of very dubious effects but few who focus on the other aspects which are more important to non-efficiency nuts.

Good aerodynamics don't need to be ugly nor impractical. That's a design choice.

Notice i'm using cars as an example... because there aren't many examples of bicycles achieving the same thing, and it's disappointing.

I think papasteve's builds embody some of these other concerns and i think some of vetter's more conservative designs nailed it too, although they were never designed for good crosswind resistance, but that could be improved.



Feels like the clear bubble is as close as we get to an aesthetic preserving aerodynamic aid with little compromises on an upright..





I'm surprised more ebikers haven't experimented with them. I've never been able to find a watts before and after measurement.

Maybe i'll be the first?

 

[Logic11]

I'm personally interested in the intersection between effectiveness, looks, and practicality when it comes to aerodynamic devices.
There's plenty of guys building extreme things that look goofy and are of very dubious effects but few who focus on the other aspects which are more important to non-efficiency nuts.

Good aerodynamics don't need to be ugly nor impractical. That's a design choice.

Zactly!
I like Amara Automotive's Elecy. Its a good looking compromise with the kind of height everyone is comfortable with.

Amara Automotive - The Elecy, a Car eBike Hybrid

Amara Automotive lets you travel with car like comfort and all the convenience of an ebike in the new 4 wheeled ebike, the Elecy.

www.amaraautomotive.com

Personally I'd have gone Tilting Tadpole as 4 wheels are considered a car in a lot of places, and for stability and lower rolling resistance.

For practicality: Serial hybrid with direct drive top gear and motorbike spec.
(I want speed and range in a country where the power's more off than on. And elec-tucking-fricity when I get home in it!)
BYD is doing this in their cars and getting 200km/l! (at lucking fast!)

I think papasteve's builds embody some of these other concerns and i think some of vetter's more conservative designs nailed it too, although they were never designed for good crosswind resistance, but that could be improved.

Yes they are damn nice.

Crosswinds:
A bike that balances on a high-wire, in a wind-storm, standing still, and auto leans precisely into corners, is actually quite easy..!
Not only that; the balance mechanism acts like SuperCaps!
Wish I had the resources!

Feels like the clear bubble is as close as we get to an aesthetic preserving aerodynamic aid with little compromises on an upright..

Do you see it!? Do you see it!?

Turn the seat around so the back is facing forward, in front of the handle bars, with the legs more or less parallel to the front fork.

The outer edges need a trim (Not aero. Strengthen inward), minus the steering wheel etc, paint and a windscreen and you're off to the races!

Doing an image search for bicycle child seat brings up all sorts of possibilities that can be bent, cut, glued and modded quite easily.

Here the seat belt comes in handy to bend the 'windscreen' down to a better angle.

I'm surprised more ebikers haven't experimented with them. I've never been able to find a watts before and after measurement.

Maybe i'll be the first?

Me too.
Yes please!

 

[JennyB]

Aero guards are beginning to be seen in gravel bike racing. See Aerodynamics of Gravel Bikes
They have some strong opinions supporting a French randonneuring heritage, but their work is all top quality (and eye-wateringly expensive). If I could afford it I would love a bike of this class with a minimal e-assist to match.

They'll never catch on for road bikes because they'll never be UCI legal, and roadies who care about performance want to look like the pros more than they want to make their ride a fraction easier.

As for me, now I'm getting on in years and not as fit as I was, I'm perfectly happy to ride at sensible bicycle speeds. If any non-athlete wants to much faster for any distance perhaps they should consider removing the requirement for human power entirely. That way they can probably build something smaller, lighter and cheaper with the same range.

 

[marka-ee]

$500 they've got to be kidding. Let's see here. Get two plastic garbage can lids, glue them together, use a saw or a band saw, and now you've got four of these things. .But in reality, the wattage tests or glide-down tests aren't there because if they work, they hardly do anything at all. That's why the only ones that are clear winners in this aerodynamic aspect are velomobiles. There's no argument about those. The clear plastic bubbles in front of a regular bicycle, I think, are probably negative in helping because of all the huge eddy currents that are generated just behind it that are not handled properly. Plus, the frontal area negates any aspects of aerodynamic benefit also. I recently got my velomobile for just over the price of one set of these fenders.

 

[4πr^2]

Cool and aero at the same time ...for free!

 

[Logic11]

$500 they've got to be kidding. Let's see here. Get two plastic garbage can lids, glue them together, use a saw or a band saw, and now you've got four of these things. .But in reality, the wattage tests or glide-down tests aren't there because if they work, they hardly do anything at all. That's why the only ones that are clear winners in this aerodynamic aspect are velomobiles. There's no argument about those. The clear plastic bubbles in front of a regular bicycle, I think, are probably negative in helping because of all the huge eddy currents that are generated just behind it that are not handled properly. Plus, the frontal area negates any aspects of aerodynamic benefit also. I recently got my velomobile for just over the price of one set of these fenders.

Yep
At the prices he wants he can keep them!

Fairings do seem to help some and there is some proof of that in the results with the Hutch.
The frontal area remains the same, but the shape you hide behind is much more aero than your body.

 

[classicalgas]

Two sources of relatively cheap bike applicable fairings

....Ebay "cafe racer fairing"

Doesn't come with mounts, but I've fitted it to several e bikes. One of very few with a streamlined headlight cover, has similar coverage to that of the old "Edge" bike fairing of the early 80's

Big enough to get your cables and wiring out of the wind, keep the rain and sun off your display

Cafe Racer 5 3/4" Front Headlight Fairing Windshiled Fit For Harley Sportster XL | eBay

If you been looking to update you ride or capture the classic drag or cafe racer style this is the unit for you!This unit is fits almost any standard type motorcycle. One Headlight Fairing & Windscreen (as pictures shown).

www.ebay.com

dozens of fiberglass fairings for motorcycles, a whole range, but this one ( "BBF" ) has HPV heritage.

VINTAGE QUARTER FAIRINGS, CAFE, MANX, TRITON, DRESDA, TRIUMPH, NORTON, BSA, BMW, MOTO GUZZI, DUCATI, HONDA, SUZUKI, KAWASAKI, YAMAHA, BIKINI, VIPER

 

[neptronix]

Yep
At the prices he wants he can keep them!

Fairings do seem to help some and there is some proof of that in the results with the Hutch.
The frontal area remains the same, but the shape you hide behind is much more aero than your body.

Visual for those unaware:

 

[Logic11]

Two sources of relatively cheap bike applicable fairings

....Ebay "cafe racer fairing"

Doesn't come with mounts, but I've fitted it to several e bikes. One of very few with a streamlined headlight cover, has similar coverage to that of the old "Edge" bike fairing of the early 80's

Big enough to get your cables and wiring out of the wind, keep the rain and sun off your display

Cafe Racer 5 3/4" Front Headlight Fairing Windshiled Fit For Harley Sportster XL | eBay

If you been looking to update you ride or capture the classic drag or cafe racer style this is the unit for you!This unit is fits almost any standard type motorcycle. One Headlight Fairing & Windscreen (as pictures shown).

www.ebay.com

dozens of fiberglass fairings for motorcycles, a whole range, but this one ( "BBF" ) has HPV heritage.

VINTAGE QUARTER FAIRINGS, CAFE, MANX, TRITON, DRESDA, TRIUMPH, NORTON, BSA, BMW, MOTO GUZZI, DUCATI, HONDA, SUZUKI, KAWASAKI, YAMAHA, BIKINI, VIPER

Thx classicalgas.
That's a great selection of fairings!

Do you have any pics of the ebikes with the fairing you fitted??

 

[classicalgas]

Thx classicalgas.
That's a great selection of fairings!

Do you have any pics of the ebikes with the fairing you fitted??

Here's a couple...first is a Lyric Voodoo, made near Vancouver BC. Capable of near 70 mph (briefly) The fairing seems to have added a little less than 5mph to the top end, and about five miles of range when running in the 25-40 mph range.

Second is an old mountain bike I'm running on a ryobi tool pack. Seeing how fast I can get a full suspension bike to go on a total of $1K all included.

 

[Logic11]

Here's a couple...first is a Lyric Voodoo, made near Vancouver BC. Capable of near 70 mph (briefly) The fairing seems to have added a little less than 5mph to the top end, and about five miles of range when running in the 25-40 mph range.

Second is an old mountain bike I'm running on a ryobi tool pack. Seeing how fast I can get a full suspension bike to go on a total of $1K all included.

Cool!
5mph or 5 miles of range is not to be sneezed at.

The $1k bike is an interesting experiment too! Any numbers on that?

Do you have any plans to try aero mudguards?

 

[Logic11]

Visual for those unaware:

View attachment 364313

I like that the fairing ends at the crank-set halfway mark. That's pretty clever:
For the top half of you 'pedaling' your foot and pedal would be moving into the wind if not for the fairing, whereas:
Your foot and pedal is moving backwards from this point, so for the bottom half of your unfaired 'pedaling' the wind is actually helping you pedal!

All it needs is my patent crosswind into thrust 'Spoke Wings' idea!

Actually:
If you were looking for a bike to mod into an ebike; the Hutch would be top of my list!
I'd also take a female mold of the fairing so as to be able to make more. Lots more!

"...strictly pedal power on a flat surface, it's claimed you could take this up to 40 or so mph (65 kph) if you're really committed. .."

This was the World's Fastest Bicycle 30 Years Ago, Now It's Worth a Small Fortune

Of all the bikes in Craig and Mindy Morrow's positively awe inspiring collection, this Hutch HPV has to be the fastest by a mile

www.autoevolution.com

Now; what happens when you fit a powerful motor to that!??

 

[amberwolf]

You might ask Warren about fairings and whatnot, for before/after, etc.

Warren

endless-sphere.com

 

[Logic11]

You might ask Warren about fairings and whatnot, for before/after, etc.

Warren

endless-sphere.com

Thx amberwolf.
He should now have got a notification after your post?

 

[4πr^2]

I like that the fairing ends at the crank-set halfway mark. That's pretty clever:
For the top half of you 'pedaling' your foot and pedal would be moving into the wind if not for the fairing, whereas:
Your foot and pedal is moving backwards from this point, so for the bottom half of your unfaired 'pedaling' the wind is actually helping you pedal!

...

Interesting thought, but I don't think it works that way. Sure the wind is 'helping' you pedal, but not as much as having your feet in the slipstream is hurting your aerodynamics. If it was actually helping by providing more energy than it was taking, then you should be able to replace your pedals with a paddle wheel and the passing wind would just keep pushing you faster and faster.

 

[classicalgas]

Cool!
5mph or 5 miles of range is not to be sneezed at.

The $1k bike is an interesting experiment too! Any numbers on that?

Do you have any plans to try aero mudguards?

Still working on gearing and controller settings on the Jamis. Once I'm confident my driveline setup is as as optimized as I can manage, and have baseline numbers I think are real, I'm going to try a full fairing, and an aero front fender. Probably more like the LSR front fenders from that Airtech site. Main fairing is probably going to be laminated 3mm plywood, with the idea than anyone can work with that, and not make a bunch of plastic waste (like with corroplast) I built kayaks as a kid, not anxious to work with those materials again.

I just noticed that navigating from that Airtech page is awkward...here's the link to the main page...look at "vintage full fairings"

Fairings, Seats, Fenders, Tails, Belly Pans, Parts - AirTech

AirTech has the motorcycle fairings, fenders, tail sections, seats, and gas fuel tanks you are looking for! Building a cafe racer or a vintage race bike for Ahrma? Call us for all your project needs, we've got over 30 years of experience in manufacturing bodywork.

www.motorcyclebodywork.com

 

[PaPaSteve]

Still working on gearing and controller settings on the Jamis. Once I'm confident my driveline setup is as as optimized as I can manage, and have baseline numbers I think are real, I'm going to try a full fairing, and an aero front fender. Probably more like the LSR front fenders from that Airtech site. Main fairing is probably going to be laminated 3mm plywood, with the idea than anyone can work with that, and not make a bunch of plastic waste (like with corroplast) I built kayaks as a kid, not anxious to work with those materials again.

Properly done aerodynamics will improve efficiency.
On an upright bike my best 1 hour TT is 25 miles.
For a full streamlined bike it is 43 miles.

Low cost chipboard and matboard have worked out very well for making aero shapes.
The material can be moistened to form modest compound shapes.
Of course, adding some wood framework too.
Coroplast isn't the most beautiful material to build from but it is durable, quiet when in use, provides amazing crash protection.

Please do post your results

 

[99t4]

...and not make a bunch of plastic waste (like with corroplast)...

OTOH in some neighborhoods (like mine) there are copious amounts of abandoned coroplast yard signs (political, yard work, gutter cleaning, youth sports signups, etc.) easily collected (free!) and repurposed, slowing their eventual entrance into the waste stream.

 

[Logic11]

Interesting thought, but I don't think it works that way. Sure the wind is 'helping' you pedal, but not as much as having your feet in the slipstream is hurting your aerodynamics. If it was actually helping by providing more energy than it was taking, then you should be able to replace your pedals with a paddle wheel and the passing wind would just keep pushing you faster and faster.

Yep; your own personal perpetual motion machine!

But I do think that, plus weight and practicality, was the designer's thinking.
You cant have a fairing all the way down to bottom stroke height. it'd get banged up in short order.

 

[Logic11]

Properly done aerodynamics will improve efficiency.
On an upright bike my best 1 hour TT is 25 miles.
For a full streamlined bike it is 43 miles.

Low cost chipboard and matboard have worked out very well for making aero shapes.
The material can be moistened to form modest compound shapes.
Of course, adding some wood framework too.
Coroplast isn't the most beautiful material to build from but it is durable, quiet when in use, provides amazing crash protection.

Please do post your results

View attachment 364416
View attachment 364417

The velo especially looks great PaPaSteve but the one thing I have noticed in videos of vehicles like this is zero wind.
Not a leaf moving, not a flag etc flapping.

Is this your experience too, or can a velo like the above handle cross breezes and winds?

 

[amberwolf]

Capable of near 70 mph (briefly) The fairing seems to have added a little less than 5mph to the top end,

An additional 5mph at that speed is typically a fair bit of power required to accomplish. (for some things, it would take up to twice as much power).

How much power (guesstimate, anyway) does that one take to get to the 70mph?

and about five miles of range when running in the 25-40 mph range.

How many wh/mile does it normally take, without the fairing?

 

[PaPaSteve]

The velo especially looks great PaPaSteve but the one thing I have noticed in videos of vehicles like this is zero wind.
Not a leaf moving, not a flag etc flapping.

Is this your experience too, or can a velo like the above handle cross breezes and winds?

Depends on the design.
Race rules for human powered vehicles have limits on ambient wind speeds to eliminate any boost effects from such winds.
Designing for street use requires an understanding of :
1) center of aero pressure
2) center of mass
3) weight balance on the wheels
The full enclosed race bike shown in post #42 was fast but way too unbalanced for street use.
The Recumbent All Terrain (RAT Racer #5) works fine in all wind and road conditions.

Bear Republic supported my race bikes for a short while.

 

[Logic11]

Depends on the design.
Race rules for human powered vehicles have limits on ambient wind speeds to eliminate any boost effects from such winds.
Designing for street use requires an understanding of :
1) center of aero pressure
2) center of mass
3) weight balance on the wheels
The full enclosed race bike shown in post #42 was fast but way too unbalanced for street use.
The Recumbent All Terrain (RAT Racer #5) works fine in all wind and road conditions.

Bear Republic supported my race bikes for a short while.

Ah..! Thx. Yes all the std problems and somewhat effective solutions, of which you forgot the most dangerous:
Abrupt (vertical) wing stall, due to varying crosswind angles of attack, when the rider has compensated for the current 'lift'.
That means; fall over, or, if you're quick enough, turn into the fall, which is into the traffic or off the road.
This might be ameliorated by the use of so called Whale Tubercles that stall much more gradually, giving the rider time to re-compensate. That's worth a search.

My other 'cat' stays 'in the bag' for now.
You could park that velo on a rope (tires off) and yank on the rope without upsetting the velo's balance.
Feels nothing for cross winds. Nada!
'Zero' added weight.
No electronics.
Sounds like I've just lost the plot doesn't it!
Knuck Foes if I'll ever get a chance to implement it though. I really don't know whatTF to do with the idea!?

 

[PaPaSteve]

The design parameter of a streamlined vehicle is to slip through the air with minimum drag with zero lift.
Lift means the tires no longer touch the ground . . . a dangerous situation on public roadways.
Whale Tubercles can be an advantage for wing shapes such as for lifting or power generation devices.
Not clear to me how they apply to a fuselage shape.
Perhaps you can build a demonstration model ?

 

[The Toecutter]

Now; what happens when you fit a powerful motor to that!??

I've always wondered how a practical version of LiveForPhysics' "Death Bike" would perform, with aero bits added and full suspension. You could fit a 4 kWh pack on something like this with it still being light enough to pedal.

Two sources of relatively cheap bike applicable fairings

....Ebay "cafe racer fairing"

Doesn't come with mounts, but I've fitted it to several e bikes. One of very few with a streamlined headlight cover, has similar coverage to that of the old "Edge" bike fairing of the early 80's

Big enough to get your cables and wiring out of the wind, keep the rain and sun off your display

What did you use for mounts and/or where can you source them? My friend and I do not have access to his shop at the moment, so I need something that is a bolt-on fit and requires no fabrication. I want to put this type of faring on "The Rolling Firehazard". I expect a modest range increase and mostly operate it at 30-ish mph.