Another Giant DH Team build but this time Clyte 4065 on 24s

litespeed

100 kW
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
1,648
Location
O’Fallon, Missouri
Been playing around wanting to finish this thing but life has put this on hold for silly things like work, family, holidays.....Just kidding! So I wanted a really cool awesome bike like Dr. Bass, GC in DC and the many others here on ES so here I go. I got a 2003 DH Team in pretty good shape off of pinkbike.com for 700 bux shipped to my house. Mine has the carbon fiber inverted forks that were just rebuilt with the 20mm through axle. I weigh about 200 lbs and the suspension is nice and soft, just the way I like it. At 6' 4" I find many bike don't fit me well but this one is on the large side of large bikes or so me thinks. I also bought a set of 5" rise DH bars which really gives me a great upright sitting position. They feel strong for most duty but I wouldn't DH with them. For power I went with a 4065 direct from Kenny which I had shipped to Ilia to instal a 26" Psycho rim with 12g spokes. I got a 18 FET from Lyen which Ilia kindly picked up and changed out some of the connectors with higher amp stuff. He sent it all to me where it has sat waiting to be unleashed.....

I like the fork lift style Pelican battery case on the fork idea so I bought a Pelican 1300 case to run 12 -6s packs in there. I'll plan to run 14 amps at first since I have 8-6s 5000 and 8-6s 4000 packs. First rides might even be just 8, 9 or 10 amps to see how the front end feels like with the added weight.

Even though I have the temp sensor in the 4065 I didn't get the new V3 CA, I wasn't paying attention to all that was going on here on ES so I'll have to do a different temp set up. Looks as though I'll be waiting to see what others come up with first. I got the 2.3 or something like that but the larges screen is a welcome addition coming from the older small screen.

On fitting the motor I went a different way from everyone else I think at this point. While waiting for Kiwi to make some more adapters and scanning through other builds I noticed how the Stealth had a motor cycle style wheel attachment that comes in from the rear. Looking at my bike I realized I could do the same thing and use the crush bolt as a retainer for the axle. I'm using this technique in conjunction with DoctorBass's epoxy on Ultimate Torque Arms and it works perfect. Another thing to add on why I went this route was because I wanted to use a 7 speed free wheel on this motor. This spread my drop outs to 146mm exactly. Using drop out adapters added a few more mm. Stock and un-sprung my Team drop outs where 139mm so I believe all is good.

Docs torque arms are a bit bigger than the 4065's axles so I will shim them tight with stainless shims. Due to going to a 7 speed free wheel though I will only be able to use one of his arms and I'll use a thinner modified arm on the derailleur side since I don't have enough thread sticking out. The ole give/take scenario!

Also on this build I'll be using a 3 speed switch, cruise control and a left hand grip shifter with a twist grip w/regen button on the right.

This build is going to be a heavy one I think. The built wheel with Maxxis DH tube/tire, Psycho rim, 12g spokes and 203mm rotor weighs in at 25 lbs 7oz. Can't wait though!

I'll add some pictures then more info as the build goes on.

Tom
 

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Litespeed. looks good but im concerned there isnt enough meat left in your horizontal dropouts at the top. I do hope you going to have torque arms too. With motor with as much torque as you have there its a no brainer.
 
Hey Wally,

Actually there is the same amount of "meat" that there was to begin with on top and bottom. I just slotted the rear portion. The axle still sits in the exact same spot as before and the 12mm axle still works in the factory location if I ever wanted to go back. As far as torque arms I am indeed using them. I'm using DoctorBass "Ultimate Torque Arms" and epoxying them on with the 4800psi stuff. At this point I'm feeling pretty good about the route I have chosen all options considered.

More to come.....

Tom
 
DSCF5081.JPGSo I got some time to piddle with the bike today. I got the rear wheel mounted and made....er modded the torque arm for the derailleur side. Since I mounted a 7 speed freewheel to the motor I didn't have enough thread on this side to use the Doctorbass ultimate torque arm so I came up with a new plan. I used a 3/16" torque arm. There is a hole that is used to mount the derailleur bracket thingie. I machined down a cap head machine screw to fit snugly in this hole. Then I marked the proper spot on the torque arm and drilled a tight hole and threaded it in. For added security I welded the outside and cut off the remainder of the screw. Cut off the arm part and part done. I will epoxy the DocBass torque arm on tomorrow which will finish the lower part of the build.

Another day closer....

Tom
 

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Good work with the torque arm. Mine failed when I used it on one side. I did the same thing cut the frame on a Norco downhill frame. Have you put talk arms on both sides.
 
Hey Rodney,

I'm using a DoctorBass Ultimate Torque arm on the brake side and my own modded one on the chain side. I'll keep a super close eye on it but I feel pretty good about the set up.

I'm having the hardest time getting to work on this. The days are just flying by, or maybe just life in general. Being busy at work, holidays, wife time, kid time and then there is no time!!!

Just had to vent and used up my time,,,, now I'm late......

Tom
 
Hey, Tom!

Have you made any more progress with your Giant/4065 project? I'm curious to hear how it works out. I am weighing options for my next build, and a 24s setup might be the direction I'll go. Keep us posted!
 
A couple things is all. I'll post tonight when I get home. Having a hard time getting time to get this done right now.

Tom
 
So I had a bit of time this weekend to play with the bike and finally got it running. Wow does this thing make my ole BMC V2 Speed on 18s lipo seem like a Power Wheels toy. Way more power and for a couple quick runs only used 24s1p of Zippy 40C 5000 packs so voltage sagged pretty good at only 40 amps. I originally bought a Falcon EV frame bag to add an extra 24s1p so that was all I had room for. I have not had regen before but I really like it. It's kind of like compression braking on a IC motorcycle. I can imagine that while trail riding this is going to be great for control. Freewheeling down a steep hill sucks when you try to touch the brakes "just a little!"

I still have to fab up the "fork lift mount" for my Pelican 1300 case but I had to get it running. The bike rear spring is way to soft for me because the bike sits in about 2/5ths of it's travel but man is it plush. At 35 mph going over a curb hardly upset me or the bike. All this usable travel rules!!! I'm actually pretty sick with a head cold, can't hear a dam thing so since it's was only 30 degrees I kept the maiden to just over 40 mph which it did with no problem. All I have to do is clean up the wiring, build something for the key switch and fab the front Pelican mount. This time I used E5 connectors since I kept getting shocked using the open ended Deans Ultras. The harness turned out well but I've been a modeler since I was 12 so soldering is quite fun. Check out the pictures,

Tom
 

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So I keep searching and searching but still can't figure out what to do about a temperature gauge that will work with the clyte 2k one. I did not e-mail Kenny yet so that will be plan A, plan B will consist of looking to change it to one that wil work with an available gauge and finishing with plan C which will include coughing up another hundred & something bucks to purchase a VcA v3.

Any and all help greatly appreciated.

Tom
 
http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=949

That one has worked well for me. C or F. Easy to read. Just silicone the sensor near the windings and run some 30awg teflon wire through the axle (you may want to size up your phase wires while your in there). I run the display with a rechargeable 9v battery and toggle switch.
 
Nice build 8)
Nice and neat torque arm solution, really good ingenuity.
I just learned on my build thread that the new CA V3 can have a graph of the temp sensor be put into the CA so it can display the correct temp. I can't get over how we just about got our motors up and running at roughly the same time. I really like how no paint chipped off of your motor after the wheel lacing either.... I'm extremely jealous :wink:
Can you post a pic of what the inside of the frame bag looks like? What size frame is your Giant DH Team looks like a medium?
 
litespeed said:
Hey Rodney,

I'm using a DoctorBass Ultimate Torque arm on the brake side and my own modded one on the chain side. I'll keep a super close eye on it but I feel pretty good about the set up.

I'm having the hardest time getting to work on this. The days are just flying by, or maybe just life in general. Being busy at work, holidays, wife time, kid time and then there is no time!!!

Just had to vent and used up my time,,,, now I'm late......

Tom
Tom,
Good to see that you are up and running. Those Doctor Bass torque arms look really good. We both did the same thing by cutting the frame into dropouts. These downhill frames that we are using are so strong. when i was using the angle grinder to cut the dropout felt like i was cutting steel and not aluminium. Just put a new motor onto my sons norco so it's now up and running as well.
 
Nice build!

Trackman417 said:
I just learned on my build thread that the new CA V3 can have a graph of the temp sensor be put into the CA so it can display the correct temp.

Actually, the CA v3 will do the task of monitoring motor temp for you, and automatically scale down when temps are too high. Very much recommended, so you dont run the risk of overheating your motor. And yes, I already did overheat one of my Clytes (HT3525). They are very easy to overheat at 20S 50A.
 
Sure wish I would have bought a V3 now......maybe I will and sell the V2.3 I have....

Thanks for the compliments.

Rodney,

I totally agree on the hardness of the aluminum. The drop outs were the hardest material I have ever cut with a cut off wheel. You aren't kidding a bit about that. I saw you did a lower powered set up on your son's bike, did you change it out?

Trackman,

My bike is actually a large. The bag is way to big for the space I needed to fill with it. I can however still stuff 6- 6s 5000 packs in there. Only problem is I need to run in multiples of 4 packs...Looks like I will have some fab time for the next few days to build the fork lift. I'll post the pics when I'm done helping the wife....you know what happens when she (read any of them!) gets angry.....

itchynackers,

Is there one available that will work with the 2k thermistor that is in there?

hjns,

Overheating my motor is the #1 thing I want to keep from doing. in my motorcycle days I was known to have a lead wrist.....

Tom
 
litespeed said:
Sure wish I would have bought a V3 now......maybe I will and sell the V2.3 I have....

Thanks for the compliments.

Rodney,

I totally agree on the hardness of the aluminum. The drop outs were the hardest material I have ever cut with a cut off wheel. You aren't kidding a bit about that. I saw you did a lower powered set up on your son's bike, did you change it out?



Tom
Tom, I broke the axle on the 5305. This was all due to only having a torque arm on one side. The torque arm failed causing the shaft to spin and rounding out the axle. So I fabricated my own torque arm but the axle had been stretched due to being over tightened.

So decided rather than risking my 3580 decided to buy a low powered kit as I already have 2 36 volt batteries. It's was plug and play and its easy for my son to charge. The 6s 8 amp hour lipos have had a hiding for being abused due to not having a cycle analyst. So I set his bike up with the 48 volts of lipo and also the 36 volt Panasonic tube battery. When we go out riding he has a chance now to keep up.
 
Rodney,

Sounds like a good setup for that bike as long as he can keep up.

Trackman,

Here are the pictures of the battery bag and of my 4065 hub. I am able to stuff 4-6s5000mah batteries and 4-6s 4000mah batteries in the frame bag. After the fork lift mount/box is done I could actually hold 24s5p or 24amps of batteries hidden if I ever want to travel to other states or country's around the world.......

Tom
 

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:shock:
That frame is stuffed! It doesn't help that the frame is awkwardly shaped as well. If I had to stick with a full suspension frame and falcon EV battery bag. My choice would definately be with a kona dawg. It isn't hard to find a large frame either. You have to go through hell and high water to find a large DH team frame.
How is the pelican case going along anyway? Couldn't you fit what you have in the frame bag into the pelican case?
 
In the Pelican case will house 12- 6s5000 packs. I originally was hoping to just use the frame bag but because of the frames awkward and small "large" size I can't stuff enough lipo in there. I like long rides and have always had a "range anxiety" with my bike. I need 30 miles out of it. I could hit 35 miles on my BMC/Specialized on 18s/15 amps with plenty of peddle power from me. Leaving from my driveway is about 6 miles to many of the wicked single track trails we have here in Missouri. Some are 10 miles by bike. I don't like to shuttle the bike to a riding spot unless I have to.

On the front mount I was going to weld up a bracket out of steel but after looking at the weight think I might just go to the local metal supply and get a piece of 4x6 aluminum angle and bolt that on to save weight and for a nicer appearance. Just have to figure out a nice looking strapping system.

Tom
 
It's KV, or what speeds you are getting at which voltage would be ideal.

Range would also be useful, would give me a rough idea of what to expect.

There doesn't seem to be much info on this motor at all. I can't seem to get hold of Kenny, and Crystalyte Europe want £400 delivered, I can get a Cromotor for that..

Decisions, decisions...
 
The weather has been horrible other than a couple of 24-36 hour stretches of ride able temps. Point is I only have about 10 miles on it so far. On 9 amps of 24s lipo and 34 amps I see just under 40 mph on flat ground, 3400 ish watts. At 50 amps I'm over 50 mph just not sure how much. New bike and new stuff has me a bit hesitant to do non stop full speed till I know the wheel won't fall off or that something won't go "poof-ka-boom!" :shock:

Range....read above. :wink:

All I can say up to this point is on 50 amps it turns my 85 something pound bike into a wheelie machine so it definitely won't disappoint you at 5000 watts. I can't compare to a Cromotor or one of the big 54XX motors since this is the most powerful one I have ridden but for all the cash I dumped into this project I'm real happy at this point. I can't wait to try pushing into the 6000 and higher range....just for a bit! :D I think at and above 5000 watts is where you have an electric motorcycle and that is what I wanted.

Tom
 
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