New Enduro/clone build

[ebike11]

Great build with great info and pics!!!!

 

[mckidney]

It was a quick trip as I just joined the forums. How is the frame holding up after couple of years?

I see you mention the seat a lot, some of the sources online confirm that and that the version with normal bike seat is better for pedaling. You might be able to just order the sub-frame.

I am looking at it and other alternatives to change my old steel enduro style frame.

 

[Eastwood]

I have been eyeing spoke torque wrenches, they are $$$, see if I macgiver my beam in-lb torque wrench to torque the spoke, I plan on taking them up to 35 in lb,

Thanks for the measurements, that helps.

I will go with 17 for this one as I bought a Michelin street tire already for it

Nice, I was looking at that same Michelin for a 17 inch street tire. Yeah there’s a lot of good street tires for 17 inch. Then with the 16 inch rim they make a lot of off-road tires for pit bikes. So yeah the size of rim really should be determined almost by what tire you can get or fit in these E bike frames.

Great build with great info and pics!!!!

Thanks! 8)

It was a quick trip as I just joined the forums. How is the frame holding up after couple of years?

I see you mention the seat a lot, some of the sources online confirm that and that the version with normal bike seat is better for pedaling. You might be able to just order the sub-frame.

I am looking at it and other alternatives to change my old steel enduro style frame.

Frame is still holding up good :thumb:
I don’t do any massive jumps like I would with a full size dirtbike but it can definitely take a beating off road.

 

[Eastwood]

Did some more testing yesterday off road with the new motor. This QS205 6T rips! Really happy with the size rim and new motor, much more climbing ability now. Even though the last motor did great. This new motor has much more bite and acceleration hill climbing etc. Here’s a few random videos from yesterday.
I’ll do some better shots in the future and post some videos and pictures.

https://youtube.com/shorts/XiYNBJHWF8I?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/2NXtsFB49vE?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/rn-oMdqCVdw?feature=share

 

[Bengy22]

Did some more testing yesterday off road with the new motor. This QS205 6T rips! Really happy with the size rim and new motor, much more climbing ability now. Even though the last motor did great. This new motor has much more bite and acceleration hill climbing etc. Here’s a few random videos from yesterday.
I’ll do some better shots in the future and post some videos and pictures.

https://youtube.com/shorts/XiYNBJHWF8I?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/2NXtsFB49vE?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/rn-oMdqCVdw?feature=share

Man that thing goes up that incline like it's nothing. I've never heard how one of these big motors sounds from the 3rd person like you did with that fly by and man is it quiet and quick, if someone was facing the other way by the time they turned around you would be gone, noise and sight :lol:

You still interested in selling that Mxus 3k and 7280, don't mean to bother you anymore than I already have but left you a message and never got a response back. Would love to start a build of my own with it.

 

[mckidney]

Did some more testing yesterday off road with the new motor. This QS205 6T rips! Really happy with the size rim and new motor, much more climbing ability now. Even though the last motor did great. This new motor has much more bite and acceleration hill climbing etc.

I see that you remove pedals, would you say that pedaling on this frame is pointless?
My current bike is a large steel DH and pedaling is a must on 1500W motor.

And thank you for responding, makes it easier to pick between this and the other options.

 

[Eastwood]

Did some more testing yesterday off road with the new motor. This QS205 6T rips! Really happy with the size rim and new motor, much more climbing ability now. Even though the last motor did great. This new motor has much more bite and acceleration hill climbing etc.

I see that you remove pedals, would you say that pedaling on this frame is pointless?
My current bike is a large steel DH and pedaling is a must on 1500W motor.

And thank you for responding, makes it easier to pick between this and the other options.

Well it’s not pointless if that’s the goal. That being said to pedal with this frame it definitely needs the bicycle seat raised up. Trying to pedal with the Enduro seat is near impossible. It’s actually a decent pedal bike when the right seat is on there. I use this as a dirtbike that’s the only reason I took the pedals off plus it does give you better control and less bloody shins lol

 

[APL]

Dang Eastwood, your just having way too much fun over here! :thumb:
Love the bike, and love your short videos!
Keep on keep'n on. :wink:

 

[mckidney]

and less bloody shins lol

Once I saw my friend's xray I am not leaving without knee+shin guard combo
I used to run this DH bike 12 years ago before I got sick. It might not show on the picture, but we used a old trick to screw bots into pedals and cut the heads off. Great hold, leaves a nice pattern on your bone.

Now I am a bit better and decided to revisit it as a ebike.
Now that the project is finishing up I am setting up my dreams on a new frame. Yours was one of the first I found, but still quite heavy. I wanted to find something more suitable for battery and motor.

Before cable management and testing:

 

[speedy1984]

https://youtu.be/hK7kIGW-vKg

I recently sold my 6t build but was defo the best motor option ive had or ridden for the woods :thumb:

 

[speedy1984]

and less bloody shins lol

Once I saw my friend's xray I am not leaving without knee+shin guard combo
I used to run this DH bike 12 years ago before I got sick. It might not show on the picture, but we used a old trick to screw bots into pedals and cut the heads off. Great hold, leaves a nice pattern on your bone.

Now I am a bit better and decided to revisit it as a ebike.
Now that the project is finishing up I am setting up my dreams on a new frame. Yours was one of the first I found, but still quite heavy. I wanted to find something more suitable for battery and motor.

Before cable management and testing:

You want a Giant DH Team downhill frame for your style of bike. :wink:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4U06uNng-H/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
I went one better and built this beast though

 

[Eastwood]

Dang Eastwood, your just having way too much fun over here! :thumb:
Love the bike, and love your short videos!
Keep on keep'n on. :wink:

Thanks APL! Yes lots of fun :thumb:
It feels good to be back riding off road. My bike was down for 2+ months, varnishing and doing mods to the new motor. From last year this bike feels completely different now with the motorcycle pegs and the smaller 16” rear tire set up.

and less bloody shins lol

Once I saw my friend's xray I am not leaving without knee+shin guard combo
I used to run this DH bike 12 years ago before I got sick. It might not show on the picture, but we used a old trick to screw bots into pedals and cut the heads off. Great hold, leaves a nice pattern on your bone.

Now I am a bit better and decided to revisit it as a ebike.
Now that the project is finishing up I am setting up my dreams on a new frame. Yours was one of the first I found, but still quite heavy. I wanted to find something more suitable for battery and motor.

Before cable management and testing:

Nice, thanks for sharing :thumb:
Yep I started wearing shinguards and kneepads right before I change the pedals to pegs. Haven’t used the guards lately since I have the motorcycle pegs now, but probably should start again :wink:
I used to have a mountain bike with the battery mounted just like you did on the DH bike. Definitely helps to keep the weight of the battery lower so it doesn’t feel quite as top-heavy.

 

[Eastwood]

You want a Giant DH Team downhill frame for your style of bike. :wink:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4U06uNng-H/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
I went one better and built this beast though

The build looks very nice! very clean looking :thumb:
How’s your enduro frame holding up? Are you still shredding at 200+ Dc amps? 8)

Edit: oh I see you sold the bike

 

[speedy1984]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQjaMqNrRDL/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/CPs3Xf4LSZo/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/B9CwRQbnTaK/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/CRe2eFOrmkv/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
After lots of mods it held up very well.I have seen the frames snap when not adding and structure to the rear of the frame around where the swing arm bolt goes through.Over time the frame tears apart,the motor mounts widen out and cause knock,the flimsy rear top shock mounts folds.Takes works to get this frame working properly as long as i did in rough woods rides.I did think the frame geometry was spot on for my style though :thumb:

 

[Eastwood]

Nice work I like the upgrades especially that upper mount for the rear suspension much thicker and stronger :thumb:
Yeah you’re dead on with the geometry of his bike it feels so right off road, nice and stable. I haven’t done any upgrades to reinforce but I did notice that part on the swing arm you referring to it could use so reinforcement. When riding I try to remember these things about this frame and take it easy through certain terrain

 

[Eastwood]

Few more short clips from yesterday,

https://youtube.com/shorts/KU7d1xptUWE?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/qPDXzV77G6A?feature=share
https://youtu.be/loU1OO9QRAQ
https://youtube.com/shorts/V2MhhxfOR4A?feature=share

 

[mckidney]

Yeah the endure geometry is perfect, especially for mid-drive.
Shocks and springs cost premium due to the heavy wheel and constant buffering from the rear hub,
The spring helps the bike push off at low RPM. I found that even 1kW motor is not good enough to push weight around at low speeds. I assume you guys agree with upgrading to higher

For a jumper like mine the extra frame prevents tears on the bearing. Instead it breaks above the chain and you can weld it there. Less catastrophic.

 

[Eastwood]

Yeah the endure geometry is perfect, especially for mid-drive.
Shocks and springs cost premium due to the heavy wheel and constant buffering from the rear hub,
The spring helps the bike push off at low RPM. I found that even 1kW motor is not good enough to push weight around at low speeds. I assume you guys agree with upgrading to higher

For a jumper like mine the extra frame prevents tears on the bearing. Instead it breaks above the chain and you can weld it there. Less catastrophic.

Yeah if I ever get around to building a frame I will definitely base it around the geometry of this Enduro frame. Would make some small tweaks but very minimal. I would increase the overall length of the frame slightly as I’m around 6 foot so it feels slightly small but still feels amazing.

I’m not sure I know what you mean when you said something about upgrading from 1000w hub motor? But yeah 1000 W is not enough power for these heavy bikes. I would say you need a minimum of 5 kW to overcome the weight. Anything above that power level these bikes fly. I set the controller to 13 kW before and it was insane, but too much voltage sag. So yeah with the voltage sag probably right under 13 kW.

 

[Eastwood]

Added hub sinks and 10 mL of (Statoraid from grin technology).
The motor definitely sheds heat better and cools off much faster from the combination of the two. Even fanning the motor with my T-shirt I can feel the side plate covers start to cool just from a minute or so of fanning the motor. Hey wait that gives me an idea, maybe I could carry a little portable fan that runs on batteries to help with cooling while riding in the woods or Enduro. Typically wear a backpack so maybe I can find a little fan to use when it starts to get too hot in the summer months. I’m kind of stubborn to turn the power down sometimes, I love the insane acceleration 8)

 

[mckidney]

Added hub sinks and 10 mL of (Statoraid from grin technology).

I am little suspicious of this tech, at least they do it right by using fluid and heat spreaders. There are so many bad videos on how to cool a hub motor.

I can feel the side plate covers start to cool just from a minute or so of fanning the motor.

That is the reason cooling hubs is sketchy, the thing you want to cool is wiring. Even with stator_fluid hub can be cool and the wiring is not. Some motors have proper sensors between the wires, besides that I would be wary of any other readings.
Better safe than kill the motor.

Hey wait that gives me an idea, maybe I could carry a little portable fan that runs on batteries to help with cooling while riding in the woods or Enduro. Typically wear a backpack so maybe I can find a little fan to use when it starts to get too hot in the summer months. I’m kind of stubborn to turn the power down sometimes, I love the insane acceleration 8)

You could use the same squirt bottle as people use to hydrate. As long as there are no additives it removes a ton more heat than air. I just lift my back wheel and run the motor with no load. Not sure if that is possible with heavier setup.

Fan or air is a good idea too!

 

[mckidney]

Thanks for posting so many pictures!

 

[Eastwood]

Well for cooling the wires you can see that I left the phase wires exposed which helps cool the wires from airflow. Just have to be careful to not hit the phase wires on something and damage the wires. i’m considering using even thicker wires from the controller to my quick connection that’s near the axle as a heat sink. It helps pull the heat out of the motor when you have super thick wires from the controller to the axle. Even though I just made those phase wires lol

As far as cooling when it comes to air or water I typically use both. I keep a camel pack in my backpack which has really cold water so I do sprinkle that on the motor and it helps some. For airflow I use a high power blower when I’m parked near an outlet and that cools the motor is off in minutes. You have to remember the amount of mass this motor has so it takes a lot of water to actually cool it. There’s a couple creeks near my local trails and I’m able to roll the back wheel to allow the heat sinks to enter the water and that cools it very quickly. But yeah sometimes there’s not water around besides my camel pack so the portable fan should help. I ordered a couple pocket fans to try out from Amazon, we’ll see! Look at this portable fan I found on Amazon you clip it on your belt and it blows air into your T-shirt lol I have never seen one of these but I’m thinking I could use this while riding and cool the hub motor :lol:
https://a.co/d/8zJYFhd

 

[mckidney]

Well for cooling the wires you can see that I left the phase wires exposed which helps cool the wires from airflow.

Sorry I misspoke, what we call wiring is in fact winding in English. I operate in English almost all the time now, but still not a native speaker. Wires do get hot as well, but like you said they are fine just by being on the outside.

What I meant was that chassis is an insulator for both the heating and the cooling. The danger is in the windings. Once the entire assembly is saturated the insulation gets damaged and they will burn off.
Ferro-fluid only makes sense with the fins, it does not lower the resistance enough for the chassis to function as a heat-spreader. (In best conditions you get around 40C difference between the fin-stack and motor. Which is why it is in their marketing)

To perhaps put a finer point: If your chassis feels just luke warm, the motor still can be 40C higher and needs cooling.
So you have to have fan or wheel-spin to reduce the time it takes to cool off.

Fan, compressed air cartridge or even 1-2 liters of water would be enough. It is easy to forget that 5l buckets are used to cool off molten iron.
But you are right, if you have to cool off two or more times - water becomes inefficient.

 

[Bengy22]

Well for cooling the wires you can see that I left the phase wires exposed which helps cool the wires from airflow. Just have to be careful to not hit the phase wires on something and damage the wires. i’m considering using even thicker wires from the controller to my quick connection that’s near the axle as a heat sink. It helps pull the heat out of the motor when you have super thick wires from the controller to the axle. Even though I just made those phase wires lol

As far as cooling when it comes to air or water I typically use both. I keep a camel pack in my backpack which has really cold water so I do sprinkle that on the motor and it helps some. For airflow I use a high power blower when I’m parked near an outlet and that cools the motor is off in minutes. You have to remember the amount of mass this motor has so it takes a lot of water to actually cool it. There’s a couple creeks near my local trails and I’m able to roll the back wheel to allow the heat sinks to enter the water and that cools it very quickly. But yeah sometimes there’s not water around besides my camel pack so the portable fan should help. I ordered a couple pocket fans to try out from Amazon, we’ll see! Look at this portable fan I found on Amazon you clip it on your belt and it blows air into your T-shirt lol I have never seen one of these but I’m thinking I could use this while riding and cool the hub motor :lol:
https://a.co/d/8zJYFhd

I wonder how much air those mini fans actually move, I have one similar to it and it moves a decent amount of air but the problem might be surface area, looks like you would need 4+ to cover the whole motor with airflow completely. Then its how to adequately place and aim them while out on the trail. That's the reason why I never use mine for my bbshd unless I'm holding it, I can't get close enough while getting it aimed well enough to make a big difference. I have seen others place a server fan in the rear triangle to help move air when stopped for a hub motor but seems like that wouldn't work to well with off-road conditions. I personally use a bag of ice with a little bit of water and keep it in an insulated bag till I need it, stop and place it on the bbshd and in 2-3 minutes the whole motor is barely hotter than ambient, only way to keep temps reasonable after a few miles of hard riding in 90+f heat unless I decide to go to pedal assist level 1 for a few miles. What we really need is a watercooled qs205 50h, a small radiator or even a reservoir filled with ice could do wonders for a lot of people, but then again it would take up a lot of extra space.

Sent you another message about the mxus 3000w

 

[mckidney]

wonder how much air those mini fans actually move, I have one similar to it and it moves a decent amount of air but the problem might be surface area, looks like you would need 4+ to cover the whole motor with airflow completely.

Because there is no use for static pressure even a 14cm PC fan would move enough air. (No dense fins or weird shapes)
Guiding problem will be ratio between the thermal capacity of the two systems (Assembly/Heat-spreader and motor/stator).
If the assembly is much heavier than the stator it will help.
If the stator is much heavier than the rest of the assembly, air will help much less.

While I think that carrying a fan is a solution to a problem that should not exist,
I would to see the results from the field. Time, method and ambient temperature.

PS: I am using weight as representation of thermal capacity, It is reasonably safe assumption for metal involved.