Aprilia Enjoy

[tonyontopofabighill]

I have a confession to make.
After espousing all the benefits of the recent mods to one of my Aprilias I went out for a ride on my silver city version yesterday. This was the first Aprilia I bought about 6 years ago. I bought it for my wife but she wasn't interested so I rode it heaps until the controller went. I then went to the new controller and twist throttle and rode it for another year before changing to the lipos.
This bike is standard in every other way.
I got a surprise yesterday at how well it went and how frugal it was on the battery. I guess with the standard skinny rims and tyres and v brakes it is fairly light. It also has the standard 6 speed cassette on the back with the 34 tooth low gear. At the end of the ride I thought what the hell I will ride it up the big hill and it did it with ease.
So I guess at the end of the day these bike are pretty good in fairly standard form.
I still think the disk brakes are a really good mod but I am not so sure about the Nuvinci hub. It seems to change the gearing to a point where the motor really "whines".
Anyway, I will enjoy riding all of them as they are all nice bikes in different ways.

Yes Ken, you are right about having an electric bike to get up the big hill and maybe one day I will do something to restrict the controller but it is only about 50 meters of the hill that I walk up and I enjoy the walk anyway. I don't walk it up any other hills.

 

[jateureka]

If that's in response to my enthusiasm for solid forks ......

Errr no, nothing to do with solid forks, I was just commenting that I prefer the look of the Aprilia with disc brakes.

 

[Samd]

Yes its certainly my controller. Been riding Melburn Roobaix all day and just caught this thread...

 

[Ken Taylor]

... It also has the standard 6 speed cassette on the back with the 34 tooth low gear. At the end of the ride I thought what the hell I will ride it up the big hill and it did it with ease.

You said previously you have a 20 tooth rear sprocket on the Nuvinci bike. The Nuvinci has a range of 0.5 underdrive to 1.8 overdrive according to http://www.fallbrooktech.com/sites/default/files/videos/N360_Datasheet_English_Web.pdf which means you should be able to go as low as you would normally get with a 40 tooth sprocket.

So it seems odd the standard 34 tooth megarange gets up the hill better than the Nuvinci.

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Ken,

The difference between the Nuvinci bike and the standard City version bike is only slight but it is there nonetheless.

 

[Samd]

Gday Ken, got another sensor for you. Will pm you in the morning.

Already turned up and I sent some funds for postage. Thanks Sam. I've got to figure out how to use it now. I think it must have an amplifier which I supply with 12volts. This is probably under the blue tape but I'm wondering if there was any electronics in the plug in the bottom of the gearbox? If I just connect 12 volts to it without being sure I could wreck whatever is under that blue tape.

Went through my parts box tonight. I have two controllers ... if anyone needs them.

I'd like a controller, if available. I would destroy the electronics to salvage the black metal cover in which I mount the alternative controller. It would be useful because I've had the old one on and off so many times the thread where the plastic covers bolt on is wearing out. I've also broken the flip up battery cover under the front of the seat through catching it with my boot when getting on if you've got one on offer.

Hi ken,
I checked the potted plug that the sensor is housed in, where it exits the engine case. No amplifier there. I hadn't thought about it since hooking up strain gauges at uni, but there must be one somewhere. I assume it's built into the controller as I can't see where else it'd be.

I do think I saw a schematic somewhere, once!

The other controller I have is unknown in condition. If you just want it for the case then go for it. "I'm clearing my shed" :lol:

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

This Aprilia city model for sale in Sydney has dropped a little in price. It looks immaculate but still a bit pricey.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Enjoy-City-Electric-Bike-6-Gear-250W-Commutator-Motor-24v-13Ah-Battery-/251303499228?pt=AU_P


This bike is now down to a "Buy it Now" price of $995 or make an offer. Not bad buying if they accepted $750.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Enjoy-City-Electric-Bike-6-Gear-250W-Commutator-Motor-24v-13Ah-Battery-/251314841197?pt=AU_P

 

[Ken Taylor]

Hi ken,
I checked the potted plug that the sensor is housed in, where it exits the engine case. No amplifier there. I hadn't thought about it since hooking up strain gauges at uni, but there must be one somewhere. I assume it's built into the controller as I can't see where else it'd be.

I haven't yet had the courage to try opening the gearbox but the amplifier must be there. I'm pretty sure the sensor you sent has 2 x 350 ohm strain gauges arranged as a half bridge i.e one in the direction of bending and one orthogonal, without any additional electronics. 350 ohm is standard for strain gauges according to http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/mastascu/elessonsHTML/Sensors/StrainGage.htm . The wires are red, black and yellow. Torque sensor testing is described in the service manual pg 34. It was this test that my sensor failed. Red and black should be connected to 12 volts then white varies from 1V no load to 4V with 50kg on the pedal. That means the amplifier is in the test circuit and not the controller. Also the signal wire changes colour from white outside the plug to yellow on the sensor.

The other controller I have is unknown in condition. If you just want it for the case then go for it. "I'm clearing my shed" :lol:

Yes I do. One thing I'm trying, for long rides, is using the space between the controller and front wheel to carry the charger. It puts a load on the controller shell which might be a problem.

This Aprilia city model for sale in Sydney has dropped a little in price. It looks immaculate but still a bit pricey.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Enjoy-City-Electric-Bike-6-Gear-250W-Commutator-Motor-24v-13Ah-Battery-/251303499228?pt=AU_P


This bike is now down to a "Buy it Now" price of $995 or make an offer. Not bad buying if they accepted $750.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Enjoy-City-Electric-Bike-6-Gear-250W-Commutator-Motor-24v-13Ah-Battery-/251314841197?pt=AU_P

He's certainly testing the market.
Ended 30 June $1,500
Ended 12 Jul $1500 2 offers
Ended 23 Jul $1295 5 offers
Ended 02 Aug $1295 offerers given up.
Not Yet Ended $995 5 offers

Surely there will be a sale soon. I wonder if the battery is good, a replacement is so expensive it adds hugely to the cost if one is required.

 

[Hillhater]

Its several years since they last made these bikes, so i doubt there are any original battery's that are still performing well.
I would never consider buying an Enjoy hoping that it had a good battery.
Anyway, even a good NimH pack is still bulky, saggy, and heavy compared to newer options

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

Another one up for sale with the usual controller problem by the sounds of it. This one is down your way Ken, in Canberra. If you are not interested I might be.

Cheers,
Tony.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Aprilia-Enjoy-Racing-Electric-Bicycle-/281182813718?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4177c

 

[Ken Taylor]

High voltage on the frame is destroying my Aprilia electronics. Anyone else having this issue? I'm suspecting others have the same underlying problem but haven't noticed because they haven't added extra electronics.

A simplified wiring diagram on my modified Aprilia is:

This means that when the motor is off battery +ve is connected to the frame through the motor. I only figured this out after wrecking a few things. One was a Speedict where a signal wire must have touched the frame during fiddling, but at the time I couldn't figure out how it had been exposed to battery voltage. See http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22919&p=720474&hilit=engineers#p720474 . Another was an ANT+ power sensor I built where the resistors lit up like light bulb filaments when the USB cable I was updating the firmware with touched the frame. Even now that I'm careful I still wrecked the charging circuit on a phone when a metal part of the phone touched the frame while it was charging off the bike battery through a DC/DC converter. It would also mean that if the insulation on the wire to the battery negative ever gets cut and the wire comes into contact with the frame, the motor will be unstoppable.

This could be fixed by breaking the connection from the motor negative to the frame or having a controller which switched on the positive side of the motor rather than the negative. A colleague tells me controller manufacturers switch on the negative because the MOSFETs to switch on the positive are more expensive so I probably can't find a controller alternative. I suspect the construction of the motor will make it too hard to break the motor frame connection but maybe my motor is faulty and other motors don't have that connection.

To check this, does everyone else with a non Aprilia controller read full battery voltage when connecting a voltmeter between the frame and battery negative, with the battery connected and the motor off?

 

[Samd]

Something wrong there Ken. You shouldn't have the potential for current to flow through the frame. Ebikes aren't earthed like cars. Sounds dangerous if i understand correctly...

It could be the controller shorting on the case. Or the contacts at the back of the bikes battery tray hitting the seat tube perhaps. Or keyswitch fault.

Someone asked a similar question on a regular hub bike recently. General concensus was danger warnings.
Consider a rider with a pacemaker.

 

[Architectonic]

Something wrong there Ken. You shouldn't have the potential for current to flow through the frame. Ebikes aren't earthed like cars. Sounds dangerous if i understand correctly...

Indeed. Sounds like there is a real issue with the electronics, with at least one short circuit to the frame.

 

[Ken Taylor]

Something wrong there Ken. You shouldn't have the potential for current to flow through the frame. Ebikes aren't earthed like cars. Sounds dangerous if i understand correctly...

I suspect yours is the same. On mine there is a connection in the motor to the frame which may be a fault but I suspect is by design. Can you try measuring the voltage from the frame to battery negative as described above?

It could be the controller shorting on the case. Or the contacts at the back of the bikes battery tray hitting the seat tube perhaps. Or keyswitch fault.

No it's none of those things. If I unplug the motor from the controller it disconnects the battery +ve from the frame so I know the connection is in the motor. Using an ohm meter on the disconnected motor I can also see an electrical path from the wires to the motor body.

Indeed. Sounds like there is a real issue with the electronics, with at least one short circuit to the frame.

Yes, the connection to the frame is in the motor on the negative side but I suspect it is designed that way. That's why I'm hoping some of you can check whether yours is the same.

Consider a rider with a pacemaker.

I can't see any problem for a pacemaker.

 

[Samd]

I'll grab my spare motor this morning and an ohm meter.

The above reads as if positive is sometimes connected to the chassis ken.

 

[Ken Taylor]

I'll grab my spare motor this morning and an ohm meter.

Thanks Samd, that would be helpful. Is there an electrical path from the motor wires to the motor casing?

The above reads as if positive is sometimes connected to the chassis ken.

Yes, and I suspect they are all the same. On mine, as stated above "when the motor is off battery +ve is connected to the frame through the motor". When the controller is at full throttle the frame is connected to battery negative through the controller. Current never flows through the frame unless an the motor is off and an alternative path to battery negative is provided.

 

[Samd]

So if I read that right, your batteries are dumping lots of amps directly through the frame when the key is off?

 

[Ken Taylor]

So if I read that right, your batteries are dumping lots of amps directly through the frame when the key is off?

No. Referring to the circuit diagram above, the only path to battery -ve is through the controller. If I was to connect a wire from the frame to battery negative then there would be a path and the motor would operate at full power.

 

[Samd]

Ah. Now I am clear.
Thanks.

 

[Samd]

Gday Ken,
just popped an ohm meter over a motor in my shed.

No connection between either wire and the chassis.
About 1.8 Ohms nominal between the pos and neg leads, but zilch between either lead and the motor's chassis. I was careful to make sure I was using several bright surfaces on the chassis of the motor, not painted sections. Motor was open so easy to do.

 

[Ken Taylor]

Gday Ken,
just popped an ohm meter over a motor in my shed.
No connection between either wire and the chassis.

Thanks for that. Looks like I'll have to disassemble the motor and look for the fault.

 

[Ken Taylor]

Thanks for that. Looks like I'll have to disassemble the motor and look for the fault.

I disassembled the motor and found the fault. The brush housing is riveted to the insulator as shown.

But the rivet touches the motor housing

which connects motor negative to the bike frame. This is easily repaired with a bit of insulation tape stuck on the motor housing. However, this seems to be a design fault. From new it must have been touching or almost touching and assuming my bike is the same as all the others there must be many where the frame is connected to the negative side of the motor. Samd's motor is one that doesn't.

Now getting speculative. If the Aprilia controller switches on the negative as does the the LBD14 (and it probably does but I don't have one to check) then this is perhaps the reason the electronics fails on so many Aprilia's. Battery voltage is connected to the frame when the motor is off which is no problem, until a wire connected to an electronic component that cannot endure battery voltage touches the frame.

On acquisition, my bike was outputting battery voltage on the the torque sensor signal wire, which shouldn't happen. Is this why?

 

[Samd]

Sounds pretty plausible to me Ken.

Just don't tell all those ebayers
Just kidding. Glad you got to the bottom of it.

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Ken,

Well done. I have always wondered why the controllers on these bike all seem to fail eventually. Your discovery sounds like the answer. Aprilia probably should have done a recall on these bikes. I'll second what Sam says about not telling the ebayers. I guess I am happy with the outcome though as these bikes certainly perform much better with the chinese controller and lipos.

By the way has anybody else had trouble getting lipos from HK ? I ordered some about a month ago and had to put in a paypal claim because they didn't send them. I have heard about the air shipping being a problem.

Cheers,
Tony.

 

[Hillhater]

By the way has anybody else had trouble getting lipos from HK ? I ordered some about a month ago and had to put in a paypal claim because they didn't send them. I have heard about the air shipping being a problem.

Cheers,
Tony.

Did you see the alert put out by HKing informing customers about their lipo ban by the Postal Service.
They were having to retrieve and repack loads of parcels and ship them by other freight services.