Aprilia Enjoy

[Samd]

I ghettoed up my Enjoy city last night with duct tape and my single Turnigy 25C 5.8Ah 8s battery at about half charge. Wattmeter in line. I got about 790 watts peak out the front gate. What an awesome ride. Pedalling optional.

It didnt take long for the wattages displayed to fall to 500, 300, 150 watts. I had assumed that watts output would stay fairly constant then stop when the minimum controller voltage was reached. Not ramp down. Anyone else seen this?

Gave her a full balance charge overnight and will run again. And will carry out proper soldered joints and mounting of controller. Will see if I get the same falloff in power.

More than happy to buy another 1 or 2 cells if that's what needed to keep output up.

Interested in other people's take on it. Maybe my mechanical connections were not up to the demand in power.

 

[Hillhater]

...single Turnigy 25C 5.8Ah 8s battery at about half charge.

What do you mean by..."about half charge" .. ?
Your controller should limit current to aprox 30A, so that peak 790W on 8s would suggest a starting voltage of 26-27 volts ?? ..That would possibly suggest a fairly low charge to start with.
Do you know what max Amps and Min volts were ?
Try again with a full pack, and be careful, the LVC on that controller is probably < 20v so it wont protect your battery from overdischarge !
Keep a close eye on that pack voltage until you get familiar with its range ability...and get another pack to parallel it with !

 

[AussieJester]

Your using one lipo pack half charged at that and your wondering why the pack is "sagging" under load?
Minimum number of packs I would suggest is 4 you will fast ruin a single pack like your using it imo.

KiM

 

[Samd]

Heya hillhater,
I ran a balanced charge to 33.6 volts overnight and took her out again. Same 790 watts peak out the front gate.
After about 1.2Ah output quickly dropped to ~180W peak again. It was when voltage dropped to ~30.8V, which is the approx spec'd voltage cutout on the yk40-3 controller (30V plus or minus .5).
Perhaps there's some chopping of the signal. Put back on charger at home and each cell 3.97 volts.
Suspect my 31.5v cutout controller is killing my fun. Perhaps I should have gone 10s as suggested, or maybe a 24v controller and I quit riding at 8*3.7volts (plus a little margin).

 

[Hillhater]

Ahhh !, yes you have a 36v controller with a 31v LVC....
.not good for 8s and a low capacity pack. You will hit that LVC very quick.
Either :,
See if you an alter the LVC down to 26-27v, .or..
get a 24v controller, ( Yin Yun LBD14) ..or
raise your pack voltage by going to 10s !! :wink:

 

[Samd]

One LBD14 ordered and on it's way shortly from US to AU. I should have done my math better - a 3.7volt minimum on 8 cells will surely never be hit with the 30.5 low voltage cutout of the controller.

I only want to get 2.2km to work and back, so hopefully a controller is the answer. Happy to spend the extra on another batt in parallel but hopefully this is the answer.

I think someone else was using 8s plus the 36v controller on here, wonder if they found the same....
Thx for your help HH!
SD

 

[Hillhater]

I am sure one of the sparky guru's o here could figure out how to reduce the LVC on that 36v controller, but these brushed units are cheap anyway !
I notice that the sickly Enjoy went for $395, so i hope whoever got it doesnt find anything more wrong with it.
Was it any one here ???

 

[gtadmin]

Not me :? Sam, I'm using 8S LiPo but with a 24V controller, so no LVC problems.

GT

 

[Samd]

Ah GT - that is good to know re 24V.

I have a second bike with battery box intact as well as key mech, bike chassis, motor, external gearbox, if anyone ever can use parts, let me know. Controller, voltage display and Inside of crankcase are all stirpped bare.

Had a chat to my dad last night, who is now retired but used to repair analog stuff all his life. He laughed at my concern of the brushes running out. He just grinds his own up to size. I got a spare set with my last 20 dollar angle grinder, I'd never thought it might be so easy to replace them when they wear. Apparently I should stay away from opening up the gearbox however.

Didnt bid on the ebay bike, figured I will get the new controller and save the rest for more lipos maybe down the track...

 

[Hillhater]

i pulled my gbox open a few weeks back, and no , i would not recommend it as casual job. !
Its a tricky little bugger to reassemble correctly.
Motor brushes were fine..hardly worn, and they are at least 4 years old and relatively easy to get at.

 

[Whiplash]

What no PICS??

 

[Samd]

Hey Hillhater, you mention a minimum of 3.5volts, is it safe to go past 3.7V discharge?

GT - What voltage do you run down to? I am gonna stay with 8s for now and order a second pack. I figure in the long run I could fit two of the narrow cells and one of the 4sx2 packs under there - giving me three 8s by 5.8Ah cells. But thats awhile off.
Thanks for the advice so far guys.

 

[gtadmin]

Hey Hillhater, you mention a minimum of 3.5volts, is it safe to go past 3.7V discharge?

GT - What voltage do you run down to? I am gonna stay with 8s for now and order a second pack. I figure in the long run I could fit two of the narrow cells and one of the 4sx2 packs under there - giving me three 8s by 5.8Ah cells. But thats awhile off.
Thanks for the advice so far guys.

Hi Sam, I charge to 4.10V / cell (32.8V), travel 15km, and end up with 3.80V / cell (30.4V) at worse! That includes riding into a 63kph headwind up a hill (but only for a short while). Worst case used 5.67Ah out of a nominal 11.6Ah (5.8x2), but I pedal ...

GT

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Hillhater,

Can you tell me what you did with the battery box and its cover to make it remain lockable on top of your new battery setup?I am looking at mine and seeing that it has the isolating hole at the front of the battery box for locking from the pin operated from the key/ignition.It also seems to be held in place at the rear of the battery box down near the main electrical terminals.Just wondering how you did it please mate.

Cheers,
Tony.

 

[Samd]

Hi Tony,
tonight I am about to do surgery on one of my original battery boxes to fit two of the long 8s 5.8Ah side by side and retain the locking part and cap of the chassis. It all seems to work on paper with a check of the calipers. Happy to take photos and share (it may work it may not but if not I guess we'll know not to do it again!).

I am going to keep the lower part of the black case (contacts and locking pin section are useful) as well as the silver top case.

For the leftover space I reckon I could nearly sneak a third parallel 8s pack in there (the 4x2 format) as well, but will walk before I run (or pedal). Alternatively I am toying with putting a 3s unit in the left over cavity to run lights etc. Maybe even drilling some plastic holes in the case and the bed plate near the springs and fitting a small computer fan to pull air thru the case off the 3s auxiliary cell I proposed.

Are you using the same format of power cells (two long 8s 5.8Ah)?
Cheers.
Sam.

 

[gtadmin]

Hi Tony,
tonight I am about to do surgery on one of my original battery boxes to fit two of the long 8s 5.8Ah side by side and retain the locking part and cap of the chassis. It all seems to work on paper with a check of the calipers. Happy to take photos and share (it may work it may not but if not I guess we'll know not to do it again!).

I am going to keep the lower part of the black case (contacts and locking pin section are useful) as well as the silver top case.

For the leftover space I reckon I could nearly sneak a third parallel 8s pack in there (the 4x2 format) as well, but will walk before I run (or pedal). Alternatively I am toying with putting a 3s unit in the left over cavity to run lights etc. Maybe even drilling some plastic holes in the case and the bed plate near the springs and fitting a small computer fan to pull air thru the case off the 3s auxiliary cell I proposed.

Are you using the same format of power cells (two long 8s 5.8Ah)?
Cheers.
Sam.

Hi Sam, I'm using the long 8S 5.8Ah LiPos, so step-by-step piccies would be useful if it's at all possible.

Thanks mate,
GT

 

[Samd]

Gday GT,
here's my plan.

I figure i can grind out the middle pegs of grey cap a few mm as shown at arrows. Might need to grind ribs beneath a little too.

If I cut the red dotted lines in both sides of the black cases both cells should 'slide' into the two piece black case. Should be able to secure using a strap underneath the middle lugs. I should be able to post some real pics in 24hrs.

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Sam,

I am still using the NMH's but am looking very seriously at changing over to the Lipo's.I already have the new controller and twist grip throttle which I have been using for about a year now. I am yearning for the upgrade to the lipos and have wondered about using the original battery box albeit modified in some way.I am really looking forward to seeing the pics of what you are going to do. I will get the two long 8's as well by the looks of it. I only do a ride of about 12 klm's return but the end of the journey is a big mutha of a hill.
Really looking forward to your modification. Thanks for sharing it.By the way I have one of each of these bikes ( the racing and the cuty) and enjoy riding both of them. They are each a bit different to ride and I look forward to using the Lipo's in them.

Cheers,
Tony.

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day again Sam,

I just checked out the pic.Wow! that looks like a great plan alright.I hope it works out so I can copy it.You'll have enough battery power in there to feed back into the grid (lol).

Cheers,
Tony.

 

[Samd]

Well here we go. Everything turned out fine. Managed to get a rudimentary mount in for the wattmeter too. AS much as I'd love a wattmeter up near the headstem to see how many watts and ampere hours I kept it close to the motor for now. I have a small DC voltmeter coming that will fit nicely inside the old aprilia LED unit near the headstem, this will stop me over discharging. I hope.

Sorry for the long post




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Went down to shed and tried it in the bike. Fits nice. Careful to push the balance plugs out the sides down into the bike casing without damaging them.
Everything locked in nice with the ignition key.
There's afew centimeters above the cells inside the case. If you wanted a really strong unit you could run some small aluminium tubes inside and screw them to the black top case so the screws were covered by the silver lid. Probably overkill.
Forgot to mount a bloody fuse - thats it laying on the table. Next time.
Cheers.

 

[tonyontopofabighill]

G'day Sam,

That is pretty impressive. Nice clear instructions will make it easy for a novice like me to follow and get it right.I like the idea of putting the voltmeter in the original Aprilia LED unit. Well done Sam.Looking forward to hearing the outcome of the maiden voyage.

Cheers,
Tony.

 

[Samd]

Finally got the battery installed properly and took her out. The bike is so much happier with two battery packs side by side - I am not getting the sudden drops in power as the pack no longer dips down quickly to the 31.5 volt cutoff. I will still fit the 24v controller when it turns up as I only did 3.2 kilometres, but really didn't pedal much at all, consumed 2Ah total.

The contacts at the back of the battery case would be carrying current much better than my previous dodgy hookup. Got 1089 watts peak this time.

Time to upgrade the brakes!

 

[gtadmin]

Good stuff Sam, thanks for taking the time to document and post your modifications. It will be useful for everyone who wants to do something similar 8)

The only problem I see is that with the balance leads coming out one each side, unless you are using balance lead extenders, it would appear that you will only be able to balance charge each pack separately. Small problem though, as these packs only need a balance once a month or so.

Cheers,
GT

 

[Samd]

Took her for a ride to work today - all went great. 1089 Watts peak, 39 kph top speed. 1.2 Amp hours consumed only - plenty to get me home again at lunch.

Normally takes 5 minutes to get to work, this mornig it was a whole 40 seconds longer!

Keen to set up a small circa 80 watt solar charger into a 12v dump battery to charge during the day, so I can charge off this as a source when I get home at night.

 

[Samd]

Fitted the 24v controller to my twin 8s setup - no more low voltage cutout after a few amp hrs- awesome. Still delivering close to 1100watts peak to the motor.

Also fitted on of these into the old aprilia battery gauge - easy to dremel out the old aprilia unit and put this in. I just popped the pcb out of the bezel and held it in with hotmelt.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300579312069&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
Spec says it only goes to 30V, but it will happily show 33.6 volts when my lipos are full.It will stop me over discharging my LiPo setup below 29.6 volts (ie 8 cells not going below 3.7 volts each).


It's showing a lower voltage than 8s below as I temporarily had my second battery pack in - original aprilia ones. I fitted a switch too so the display is on or off...
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