AWD Quad build in planning: "Satanic Panic"

[The Toecutter]

Im glad to hear things are going mostly well and learning. Ive found a lot of learning from your posts. The data is great also. Any chance you know the weight or dimensions of the base vehicle?

Figures are approximate,

-Current mass: 41 kg
-Wheelbase: 1170 mm
-Front Track: 980 mm
-Rear Track: 660 mm

It's light, maneuverable, grippy, and it hauls ass. Given that it's Juneteenth, I have the day off work and I was out looking for a street takeover to join, but no dice. I badly want to see how it compares in a 0-30 mph sprint to the local Surrons and Talarias riding around illegally!

Two weeks ago, I did go riding it in a storm drain tunnel. I was looking for homeless camps to give people food and maybe share liquor with, but only found a moldy couch with a bunch of used needles around it. My camera's battery died before I could get pics of the couch.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

How did you decide on the geometry?

I mean steering angles, wheel track width, that sort of detail. I'm not asking for a rundown of the measurements and angles you chose, but rather how you went about choosing them.

 

[The Toecutter]

How did you decide on the geometry?

I mean steering angles, wheel track width, that sort of detail. I'm not asking for a rundown of the measurements and angles you chose, but rather how you went about choosing them.

I didn't choose the dimensions. I bought a KMX framekit from Utah Trikes in 2016 and built it that same year. It started life as an unmotorized trike with intent to build an electric velomobile off of it. The first upgrade was Adam Roy's front suspension kit. I first built it into an unmotorized velomobile in 2017, and had it converted into an EV with an upgraded body shell by 2020. This was my first ever e-bike build and it reliably did 45-50 mph top speed depending upon battery state of charge, weather conditions, tire selection, ect. with a meagre 46.8V battery pack, Leafbike 1500W 4T motor, and Phaserunner controller. That second body got rear-ended by a truck while I was stopped at a red light and the body gave itself up to save me from injury, and went back to an unshelled trike, but motorized and upgraded to 72V and a 3T wind of the same motor, ASI BAC4000 controller, rear suspension kit from Adam Roy, and was able to reach 71 mph on 10 kW. This year, I converted it into a quad using a Dreambike tricycle conversion kit and All-Axle front hub motors from Grin with the "Superfast" 3T wind, and two Phaserunners(they get hot very quickly, too).

This frame has over 90,000 miles on it. I have another KMX in the box unassembled. I was going to use that new frame to build the quad until I realized I didn't have space to store two recumbent trikes plus a Milan SL.

This is a very stoutly-built frame, and the weakest part about the KMX is the steering spindles. Damn shame KMX are no longer available in the USA.

 

[BionicOnion]

Figures are approximate,

-Current mass: 41 kg
-Wheelbase: 1170 mm
-Front Track: 980 mm
-Rear Track: 660 mm

It's light, maneuverable, grippy, and it hauls ass. Given that it's Juneteenth, I have the day off work and I was out looking for a street takeover to join, but no dice. I badly want to see how it compares in a 0-30 mph sprint to the local Surrons and Talarias riding around illegally!

Two weeks ago, I did go riding it in a storm drain tunnel. I was looking for homeless camps to give people food and maybe share liquor with, but only found a moldy couch with a bunch of used needles around it. My camera's battery died before I could get pics of the couch.

Its interesting to see those dimensions and knowing how mine is coming along. I guess mines gonna be more of a cruiser than a little rocket. Guess thats how it goes when you try to plan for a passenger behind you

 

[The Toecutter]

Its interesting to see those dimensions and knowing how mine is coming along. I guess mines gonna be more of a cruiser than a little rocket. Guess thats how it goes when you try to plan for a passenger behind you

Mine is meant to get me away from trouble whenever/wherever it finds me. Trouble has come my way before. I normally pedal it and cruise around 30 mph. Sometimes I'll do 45-55 mph on state highways(where "bicycles" are legal, not the interstate), but without a body to cut aero drag, I can't do it for very long.

 

[BionicOnion]

Mine is meant to get me away from trouble whenever/wherever it finds me. Trouble has come my way before. I normally pedal it and cruise around 30 mph. Sometimes I'll do 45-55 mph on state highways(where "bicycles" are legal, not the interstate), but without a body to cut aero drag, I can't do it for very long.

Im looking for exploration, trails etc and maybe some travel... but i have a 3yo who loves adventure too, so I either have room foe a passenger or cargo. Guess its the trade off. Can always make a single person version 2 right? Looking forward to more updates from you

 

[The Toecutter]

I wish my Satiator charger wasn't so damned slow. I'm waiting on it to charge so I can go out for another ride. Without a body, this thing guzzles down the watt-hours. As a trike with my previous body shell, I could go 4x as far per kWh vs today as a naked quad. And that body shell was neither optimized in a wind tunnel nor designed with CAD. I used math, my rudimentary knowledge of aeronautical engineering(I'm an electrical engineer), and a notebook to design the last one. I might use Tinkercad for the next one. I have access to AutoCAD for my job, but I don't want my employer to own it.

 

[Zambam]

I wish my Satiator charger wasn't so damned slow. I'm waiting on it to charge so I can go out for another ride. Without a body, this thing guzzles down the watt-hours. As a trike with my previous body shell, I could go 4x as far per kWh vs today as a naked quad. And that body shell was neither optimized in a wind tunnel nor designed with CAD. I used math, my rudimentary knowledge of aeronautical engineering(I'm an electrical engineer), and a notebook to design the last one. I might use Tinkercad for the next one. I have access to AutoCAD for my job, but I don't want my employer to own it.

Does this one have the right voltage? Adjustable current up to 12 A max. I have one, works well.

What kind of body will you be building for it?

 

[offGridDownUnder]

two Phaserunners(they get hot very quickly, too)

Just in case, have you seen the heat sinks Grin sells now?

 

[bananu7]

It's light, maneuverable, grippy, and it hauls ass.

Might I add that with the disc wheels it looks badass as well.

 

[The Toecutter]

Might I add that with the disc wheels it looks badass as well.

Wait until I get some decals on them. Pentagram with a goat head in the center and Unicursal Hexagram decals are on the way. One for each front wheel.

Just in case, have you seen the heat sinks Grin sells now?

Yes. In my case, I'm not sure that they would do much good because I'm using my trike's frame as a heat sink. The Phaserunners aren't made for the sort of power I'm pushing through them. A single full acceleration run to top speed will make them go from cool to hot before I even top out. I do have two of them in my possession that I will try at some point.

The Phaserunners are also a temporary measure. I'm going to upgrade to XT150 connectors on my front hub motors and use a controller that can do 150A phase current for each at some point in the future. I don't know if I'm going to do this before or after adding a middrive to power the rear wheels.

This thing will eventually get much faster. I'm aiming to be able to accelerate like a Surron Storm Bee. Not even close at the moment.

 

[The Toecutter]

I raced a Lincoln MKZ tonight and held my own with it. 70 mph to 0 mph in a panic to make a red light without going through it was doable without the brakes overheating. 30-70 mph acceleration is about 6 seconds. Holy crap this thing is SCARY and it's not even half as powerful as the one I just bought. I hope I don't kill myself with either.

 

[The Toecutter]

And here's the battery box:

 

[The Toecutter]

It doesn't even look motorized. That's the best part about it.

 

[The Toecutter]

What kind of body will you be building for it?

Something streamlined that will make it look like a cross between the Auto Union Type C streamliner and the Stanguellini Colibri. Possibly out of fiberglass and plastic. Maybe carbon fiber if I get some vacuum molding equipment and learn how to use it. In either case, it will take hundreds of hours.

 

[Zambam]

Something streamlined that will make it look like a cross between the Auto Union Type C streamliner and the Stanguellini Colibri. Possibly out of fiberglass and plastic. Maybe carbon fiber if I get some vacuum molding equipment and learn how to use it. In either case, it will take hundreds of hours.

Cool! Do you have the body mounting points on the quad already? Will body be one piece or multi? When will you start? Looking forward to see it progress.

 

[The Toecutter]

Cool! Do you have the body mounting points on the quad already? Will body be one piece or multi? When will you start? Looking forward to see it progress.

The mounting points are figured out. The body will be at least two pieces. I do not know when I will have a workspace to do it.

 

[The Toecutter]

I was cruising 55 mph down St. Charles Rock Rd in a section that had a 35 mph speed limit. I flew right by the police station, unnoticed. This thing is so damned good. Why can't we buy anything like this? In microcar form? A lot of people once they experience this, wouldn't want to go back to anything else.

We're wasting resources on the SUV/CUV/truck zeitgeist so egregiously. And I say this as someone who personally could cut my energy consumption to 1/4 for the same use case with the addition of a body shell.

 

[Zambam]

Is there some kind of stealth technology going on that your Quad don't show up well in photos? Lol

 

[hillslayer@]

I was cruising 55 mph down St. Charles Rock Rd in a section that had a 35 mph speed limit. I flew right by the police station, unnoticed. This thing is so damned good. Why can't we buy anything like this? In microcar form? A lot of people once they experience this, wouldn't want to go back to anything else.

We're wasting resources on the SUV/CUV/truck zeitgeist so egregiously. And I say this as someone who personally could cut my energy consumption to 1/4 for the same use case with the addition of a body shell.

We just can't have nice things and you know why.

 

[The Toecutter]

Is there some kind of stealth technology going on that your Quad don't show up well in photos? Lol

It's called black paint while having buttons to shut off your lights, and riding at 3 AM. I was also wearing all black clothing and a face mask. If it did show up in any photos, I don't think much will be visible. Probability does approach 100% that it was video recorded or photographed flying by the police station. I'd be surprised if it wasn't. Cars do the same thing and get away with it hundreds of times a day though.

Even aside from the police station, I'm almost certain the FLOCK cameras that no one even got a vote on have caught me riding by as well. I'm only doing 30 mph, most of the time, and almost always pedaling. and I'm not talking clown pedaling either. Both drive systems work together. Even the little bit of power I contribute with my legs helps make it faster, and the stronger I get, the faster it gets(especially at launch).

People do notice the vehicle. When it was a trike with the white body shell, the locals in the hood used to call it the "Little Rascals car". Now, they call it "Go-kart Space Ship". I've heard both terms on a repeated basis.

 

[Zambam]

How are you going to run from drones? Police around here just started to use them.

 

[The Toecutter]

How are you going to run from drones? Police around here just started to use them.

They're limited in resolution. I just need to get 5+ miles away from them. Most people who get caught by them don't know they were deployed. You can't really see or hear them.

I rode it another 50 miles today. So fun. With the upgrade to a 2.1 kWh pack, I'm consistently getting about 60-70 miles range mostly cruising 30-35 mph, with some low speed pedaling on trails with the motors shut off, and some 55-70 mph bursts for 2-4 miles at a time on state highways mixed in with that. In "street legal" mode with a 750W/28 mph limit while pedaling, I should get about 100 miles range by the looks of things. A streamlined body will increase all of those figures by 3-4x using the same battery.