Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

[Mr Hankey]

Since the last post, I was instructed by the manufacturer to charge the battery to full.

I did that and now the output voltage reads zero. When reported back to manufacturer, it seems they were expecting that and now also concur that it is most likely a problem with the BMS

 

[avm73]

Hello,
I'd like to share my experience with the bbs02 750W unit built in November 2013. Till now I have made 3100 km commuting to work. No overheating, no running at high load in high gear. Barely used more than 15 Amp current. No problems so far except the case when the signal cable connection went a bit loose which caused erratic turnoffs. But now I'm really in trouble. The symptoms are the following. On a freshly charged lifepo4 battery it runs smoothly for some 1-2 km, then it begins to slow down with occasional cutoffs of the power (display remains functioning showing all charge bars). Sometimes it is accompanied with some low frequency vibrations on the pedals like it is working in the generator regime. I have disassembled the motor, checked all the connections etc. Found nothing. Checked the battery - it works OK with my water pot. Wattmeter shows 2 Amp current (110 W power) and only 1 Volt sag.

Now I have a question - is the new controller compatible with the older model? I've seen that the connectors in the new model are different. Would it be necessary to buy the new signal cable as well?

It is also remarkable that when I disassembled the motor I noticed that the cover of the nylon gear was fastened with only 1 bolt (two were missing and no traces of them). Apparently, it made no harm. Everything was tight. So the construction is rather foolproof The small o-ring on the motor end of the shaft was torn apart, of course. Fortunately, it didn't block the bearing etc. There were traces of wear on the opposite end of the shaft, though. And one more thing, there was no silicon washer on the main gear shaft. Only two nuts and a thin metal gasket.

 

[tomjasz]

The newest BBS02 controller, is a complete new design. It looks almost exactly like the BBSHD, but with bullet connectors, not Anderson.

 

[alfantastic]

The newest controller is a complete new design. It looks almost exactly like the BBSHD, but with bullet connectors, not Anderson.

Apologies if this is a stupid question, but is that the BBSHD controller on the right, or a new style BBS02 compared with the old BBS02 on the left?

 

[avm73]

Apologies if this is a stupid question, but is that the BBSHD controller on the right, or a new style BBS02 compared with the old BBS02 on the left?

Look, they both have bullet connectors, so they are BBS02's.

 

[tomjasz]

The newest controller is a complete new design. It looks almost exactly like the BBSHD, but with bullet connectors, not Anderson.

Apologies if this is a stupid question, but is that the BBSHD controller on the right, or a new style BBS02 compared with the old BBS02 on the left?

Edited for clarification. The new BBS02!

 

[bmurray7]

I have a BBS02 with a C961 controller. When I press the power button, the display no longer turns on. It worked about 4 days ago on my commute home. I've checked the battery and all connectors.

Is my controller busted?

What should I do to diagnose the problem? I have access to a multimeter.

I see on Google earth that California is a big place, but if you are anywhere near Castro Valley, maybe you could pop the bike into Matt at EMPowered Cycles

I'm sure he'd be happy to take a look and would have all the equipment for a quick diagnosis.

Thanks for the suggestion. I brought it to Matt at EMPowered Cycles to repair. Apparently the root cause was a software bug in the controller. After reflashing the controller, everything worked.

Matt did a great job. I would recommend him to anyone.

 

[Lurkin]

Tomjasz are the two BBS02 controllers compatible? i.e. can you use Gen 2 controller with a Gen 1 BBS02? or are they different enough that a Gen 1 is requred for a Gen 1 unit?

(This is so I can update the difference to the wiki)

 

[dumbass]

Tomjasz are the two BBS02 controllers compatible? i.e. can you use Gen 2 controller with a Gen 1 BBS02? or are they different enough that a Gen 1 is requred for a Gen 1 unit?

(This is so I can update the difference to the wiki)

My Bad. Deleted post.

 

[tomjasz]

Tomjasz are the two BBS02 controllers compatible? i.e. can you use Gen 2 controller with a Gen 1 BBS02? or are they different enough that a Gen 1 is requred for a Gen 1 unit?

(This is so I can update the difference to the wiki)

NO not compatible. completely different controller and design. The new 02 looks like the BBSHD except it has bullet connectors instead of Anderson. Haven't pulled the plastic gear and pinion yet hopefully there's not a third gear and pinion. I haven't confirmed but i've been told the second generation gear can be replaced in a firs generation with a new pinion. BAH Bafang! Keeping things interesting!

 

[Lurkin]

Wiki updated. Starting to think Bafang units need their own page, its section is dwarfing the others now.... 8)

 

[tomjasz]

Wiki updated. Starting to think Bafang units need their own page, its section is dwarfing the others now.... 8)

Yes please! And thanks for your work! It fantastic!

 

[Rodney64]

Does anyone know the maxium voltage that the BBSHD can handle.

 

[tomjasz]

Does anyone know the maxium voltage that the BBSHD can handle.

The programming software, actually the internal controller firmware limits the maximum to 30A.Some work is being done to tweak up to 40A, but no easy task.The aren't many unpotted controllers out there.

 

[waynebergman]

Rodney i think it's just under 60 volts so what is labeled as a 52 volt pack is about the limit.

 

[Rodney64]

Thanks guys. Yes a potted controller would be good.

 

[Speady]

is that the BBSHD controller on the right, or a new style BBS02 compared with the old BBS02 on the left?

That was my thinking too.
There's no New BBS02 listed, neither at any vendor I know, nor at Bafang page itself.
What sense would it make to build a new version that looks like a BBSHD with more or less the same output?
Why is there only one single person that claims to know about it yet?
Eric and Karl did not mention anything like that.
At least I'd like to see that BBS02 stamping on the 2.gen housing. Show me that.
@tomjasz ,where you got this socalled new version from?
Swapping internal connectors makes a Brandnew BBS02 out of an average BBSHD?
Can anyone confirm what tomjasz wrote, to me it makes no sense at all.

 

[Lurkin]

Bafang have revised the design of the BBS02 unit and changes have been anticipated for sometime. Have a look at this page at the GM32.750 (BBS02) and compare it to older posts on the internet. http://www.szbaf.com/en/components/motor.html I think you'll find those on Bafangs website much more like the BBSHD. At a guess, dealers like Eric will probably still be selling older stock? there hasn't been any real indicator of when what will be released and how it will change - we are catching up with it over time.

Further, you may also benefit from reading the Middrive/Bafang section of the wiki. I have definitely documented this there as well......

 

[Speady]

That GM32.750 you mention is just a BBSHD with a 750W stamp for legal purpose. How comes it has exactly the same technical specifications like the GM32.1000, and optics as well?

The ES Wiki has always been a reliable source of information. Right now the info about BBS02 is probably wrong and misleading. That's a mayor issue to me.

Someone asked for max voltage and tomjasz gives current in reply, just 5 post earlier in this thread.
He didn't aswered a single questions I asked.
Noone else does confirm what he's claiming to know.

Is it a good idea to edit ES Wiki with unverified information from a single person that is obviously confused, sees things that noone else can see and does not proof anything he claims?

 

[Lurkin]

Feel free to provide your own verified information to contribute to the wiki or correct any issues with information currently written in the wiki. As with anything on the internet, it can, and will, have errors in it. It is after all, a summary of what is on the forum written by volunteers based on what information we have verified with whatever resources, if any, we have at our disposal. If you have anything positive to contribute, it would be much appreciated.

To be very clear, I began the discussion of 'Gen 1' 'Gen 2'. They are not Bafang terminology. There is however, definite differences between the first version of the BBS02 units produced by Bafang and what they are producing now. We have simply labelled them Gen 1 and Gen 2 for identifications sake. I have no idea whether dealers or critics will adopt the same or similar convention, it would be ideal but its not really necessary for these purposes.

 

[Speady]

I'm questioning probably improper information.
That's my contribution to ES Wiki.
Hope that's OK with you.
Had a lot of questions, so what about facts now.

 

[Lurkin]

I'm questioning probably improper information.
...

...so what about facts now.

You seem very convinced there is something wrong with the Bafang section of the ES wiki, yet to date, you have not advised specifically what it is. You are more than welcome to read through it and tell me what it is that is bothering you - I will endeavor to investigate and update any suspected incorrect information.

This section of the wiki was originally written by another forum member and I have updated extensively from numerous threads on the forum, verified by taking apart my own unit/experience, checking photos, PMs with other members, discussing with dealers or with direct contact with Bafang itself. Whilst it might seem to you that I have relied on one members testimony, it has usually been corroborated against other knowledge and/or other sources. Updating the wiki is not an easy, quick or cheap task and spare time is short for me. Accordingly, I'll take any help I can get to verify or provide information for the wiki, welcome to join in! 8)

[EDIT] I.e. as far as I am aware/can verify, the facts are already in the wiki. You are welcome to read it and let me know of your specific concerns.

Its not uncommon on the forum to have a question answered with indirect information. Whilst it might seem irrelevant to you, it may still have value to others and be logical in another way. I.e. discussing max power also leads to discussions of both max voltage AND current. It's totally possible tomjazs is simply thinking ahead... too much cofffee!

 

[Speady]

Do you want me to proove the non existing of a physicallay not existing something?
Am I sorta Saddam Hussein or what
You guys need to show a BBSHD wi;h a BBS02 label. But you don't.

 

[Lurkin]

You guys need to show a BBSHD wi;h a BBS02 label. But you don't.

To be very clear, I began the discussion of 'Gen 1' 'Gen 2'. They are not Bafang terminology. There is however, definite differences between the first version of the BBS02 units produced by Bafang and what they are producing now. We have simply labelled them Gen 1 and Gen 2 for identifications sake. I have no idea whether dealers or critics will adopt the same or similar convention, it would be ideal but its not really necessary for these purposes.

This has been covered already. You'll never see the label your asking for, its not Bafang terminology. Its a convention/norm/label we have adopted to discuss the differences only, its unlikely to be adopted anywhere else.

Bafang don't seem to have described the different parts even to vendors, hence the confusion when vendors have given them to people on here and they don't fit - because they are different, from different generations/models/versions of BBS. Its just a means of describing the difference for simplicity's sake - that's all.

 

[Gianvi]

Hello everybody,
i'm in error 8 with a BBS02 500W 48V.
I demounted it both side and checked the connection, following the problems of RPGEAR (https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=58898&start=300) but all connections are ok and display ever in Error 8.
So, this Hall Sensor where is it placed?
Is easy to get to work on?
i have the possibility to have another motor (that has some problems but not in Error 8, only mechanical) so if possible i would like to change the parts joined to error 8 to make alive another time my BBS02.

Have you some suggestion?

tks