basic questions

[29a]

Hi all
been looking into e bikes +there isn't much in the way of reviews anywhere,+ no set way of comparing system to system, so confusing to me.
Heres the best info link ive seen http://forums.batteryspace.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3098

has anyone had any experience with the crystalite Pheonix ?
Is it better to over power a bike (eg 1000 watt motor) +use only as ness
+ have available motor power when needed (steep hills/very strong winds) or does this increase battery consumption using a motor below full power as the norm ?

any constructive help/comments/non advert links appreciated

 

[knightmb]

I do remember the one in the link you provided and I agree there isn't much in the way to compare everything. The reason I think is because a lot of what you see in the forums around the world is custom. Everyone has a different bike, different motor, different battery pack, etc. So a lot of the comparisons are apples to oranges and it's really tough to figure out what is best. I tell people just to post what they want and everyone else can recommend what they liked.

For example, I know you can buy a real cheap e-bike from Wal-mart for example. But it only does 15 MPH and gets about 10 miles per charge or something low like that. But again, it's cheap and if that is all a person wants it might be a good start. A lot of what you see here is customized because we all have a need for speed.

 

[Lessss]

This is what I have put together, I may be wrong but...

You need to decide what is most important.

Distance ability
Hill climbing
Speed
Cost
Legality
Looks

Once decide these, then decide which bike to get.
Legality. Do you have a drivers license? If you do then the number of possibilities opens up. If it is just a bicycle the it is limited by law to a certain speed and motor capacity depending on where you are. If you don't have a DL then you need to decide if you are going to break the law.

Hill climbing. Is your area flat of hilly. Mild hills or severe hills? Almost any bike will do for a flat area. It takes specific stats to handle severe hills. No DL means you will be limited to 20 MPH/30Kmph. There is a trade off on wheel size. Smaller wheels means more torque for handling hills but it is also usually a slower speed. To pick speed back up means more wattage and voltage. There is also more amps consumed and more heat generated. Most motors won't give you these stats so you have to ask for them(email the manufacturer). Many people mod their bike so the engine is force air cooled. If you are willing to peddle along then motor capability can drop more than if you are not willing to peddle along. Scooter type bike are often too wide to peddle along.

Speed. Volts matter. More volts more speed. Again the amount of amps and heat the motor can take will come into play.

Distance. More batteries = more amp hours, but if your motor is and AMP eater it'll go throught the amps you have faster. Bigger the wattage the more amps it'll eat, the more batteries you need(not for more volts, but more amps). Amps = fuel

Looks. You want a converted bicycle or a scooter lookalike? If a bike, do you want a mountainbike, ten speed, recumbant, cruiser or step through?


Once you have all that you need to look at COST for what you want and then make compromises.

 

[knightmb]

Often companies that manufacture or produce certain products will loan out one to those that do reviews of them. For example, say we had a company that produced a standard XYZ Model of an e-bike. I could send them an e-mail or call them and request that I want to write a review about their product and could they send one to me to test with. They send out the e-bike, I do my test, write a review, etc. Then I ship the e-bike back to them, which in turn they can send it out to another person for review. That might be something for myself and others to look into doing. It would be tough to do this with e-bikes that are all custom, but for e-bikes that have a standardized version from the company this would be a good way to build up reviews to better educated all the potential e-bike customers out there as well at the veterans who want to keep up with the latest technology being used. I already have a great park to ride bikes around to test distance and speeds with that I can use anytime during the year, so I'll try making a few phone calls and e-mailing a few sites and see what they say. You never know until you ask. :wink:

I might start with the el cheapo Wal-mart E-bikes (because I can return them when I'm done, yeah it's chezzy I know)

 

[29a]

Does anyone have any thoughts/experience on the two speed hub motors

http://www.poweridestore.com/Model-4084011-Front-Dual-Speed-500W-Hub-Motor-Kit

 

[knightmb]

Does anyone have any thoughts/experience on the two speed hub motors

http://www.poweridestore.com/Model-4084011-Front-Dual-Speed-500W-Hub-Motor-Kit

I'm actually about to get a 406 motor from that exact store today from UPS, but the next time I might get one of those just to play with it myself. I like the concept of them, kind of like having automatic transmission where you can switch to low for hills and then to high to level/high speed cycling.

 

[searth]

I love it. It is on a Specialized mountain bike with Lith ion cells. So far I have not run them till they stop. My longest mountain ride with 15 per cent grading (up hills) and some pedaling has been about one hour and a half. The batteries are 15.6 amp hour 36 vlt from batteryspace.com I do have to pedal a little on the very steep parts. but it is very easy to climb with and the speed is definately there when you want it. I think it does about 24 mph (no spedometer) It as fast as I want to go on a bike personally. I have heard the mongoose from wal mart is junk and shouldnt be taken seriously. I ride pretty hard and so far (two months of daily riding) so good. It has been cold so no overheating yet.

I recommend this.
Mountain bike chassis. (stronger and more stable)
Suspension fork and seat post with rigid rear frame and rear hub for better weight distribution. (nicer on the bones)
Fat tires made by a good company (kenda) with speed rating of 4o mph or better.
Dont ride in the rain if you can avoid it. Keep plastic bags and ties just in case. I made a rain guard system for winter but I would just ride it long enough to get home. in other words no rain pleasure cruises. For that keep an extra bike around or car.

Dont put the batteries on a rack in the back if you can avoid it. The best place for them is in the front triangle on the lower tube. Go with lith ion if you can afford it they are light and last longer then most. But they are very costly 600 or so us dollars. I spent 1500 on my bike total. I dont think that is bad considering that many days i just spend on my bike as my 2003 volvo xc sits in the garage collecting dust.

 

[Lowell]

Does anyone have any thoughts/experience on the two speed hub motors

http://www.poweridestore.com/Model-4084011-Front-Dual-Speed-500W-Hub-Motor-Kit

When you run the 408 vs. 411 at:

http://ebikes.ca/simulator/

the 408 makes more torque at every RPM...

 

[Lowell]

Hi all
been looking into e bikes +there isn't much in the way of reviews anywhere,+ no set way of comparing system to system, so confusing to me.
Heres the best info link ive seen http://forums.batteryspace.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3098

has anyone had any experience with the crystalite Pheonix ?
Is it better to over power a bike (eg 1000 watt motor) +use only as ness
+ have available motor power when needed (steep hills/very strong winds) or does this increase battery consumption using a motor below full power as the norm ?

any constructive help/comments/non advert links appreciated

If you have power to spare, it makes it easier to run the motor at peak efficiency. The 9lbs of extra weight with the Pheonix hub is well worth it, since that is probably only a 3.5-4% increase in total weight. (rider + bike + electrics)

 

[xyster]

If you're already 'in my mind', then you know all this...

I have the same hubmotor, the 5304, as the phoenix "cruiser". I bought it laced into a 24" wheel for 8% more torque/less speed. See speed/acceleration stats on this page:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=147
if interested in the performance specifics.

The 4 series is a tad quicker off the line because it's much lighter than the 25lb phoenix. But the 4 series motors are much slower thereafter, especially up hills, and a little less efficient too.

The big, 5-series hubmotors are great for road biking, but IMHO too heavy for serious off-road motoring. If off-road is your thing, I'd recommend a 408, 408/411, 411 or a BMC Puma:
http://www.texaselectricbikes.com/catalog/electric-bike-motor-p-163.html
The dual-winding hubmotors like the 408/411 are a little less efficient than the single winding 4 series.

Also beware that getting the heavy phoenix motors rolling at an acceptable pace requires at minimum 1.5kw of power -- i.e. at least 48 volts and 35 amps. 48 volts and 40 amps, or 60-72 volts and 35-40 amps is much better. If climbing really, really steep hills (over 10% grade) is in your future, you'll need at least 2 kw (2000 watts) of power no matter the hubmotor (i.e. at least 72 V and 35 Amps like mine).

I found Earl, the owner of the poweridestore where I bought my 72V 35A controller, honest and very dedicated to keeping customers pleased.

I bought my hubmotor from Justin at http://www.ebikes.ca
also an excellent vendor who also sells a good selection of quality NiMH batteries, and good, very cheap Nicads.

SLA (sealed lead acid) batteries are cheap upfront, but don't last more than 200-300 charge/discharge cycles so are usually more expensive over time for folks who ride regularly than NiMH which is good for ~700-1000 cycles, Nicad which is good for 1000-2000 cycles, and lithium polymer or lithium-ion packs which are good about 3-5 years if kept cool between rides regardless of how many times charged.
SLA is also too heavy per battery to use for 72 volt packs unless turning and going over bumps is not important to you.

 

[sabrewalt]

Searth wrote: "I have heard the mongoose from wal mart is junk and shouldnt be taken seriously. I ride pretty hard and so far (two months of daily riding) so good. It has been cold so no overheating yet."


Searth, My son would agree with you because like you he rides a bike HARD!!!! but I own one and instead of calling it junk, I call it a good value for the money you spend. There is a guy in Australia who rides one and he just finished 1000 km. Like me he is an older guy and wanted the exercise without the heart attack from mounting hills with no assist. I use mine for a backup when my hubmotor Raliegh craps out. There is an IZip version of this same bike in the inflight catalogs for 600 bucks. If I had paid that, I would be pissed. But for 300 bucks.. no worries. I have a replacement contract so in two years, I can get a new one. Anyway read this story over at:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/message/61252

 

[knoxie]

Hello

I will agree here the mongoose is not junk at all it is a very good value starter e-bike that out performs hub motor bikes of the same spec and is a really good entry in to e-biking, you can also put more powerful motors on it and better batts etc.

Cheers

Knoxie

See Reids posts