Best mid drive motor under 500 Dollars

[Eviltwin68]

A bit of background. I've installed 4 motors over the last few years.

First was a TSDZ2b on a Greenspeed trike. No OSF, vldc5 display, no throttle. Ran great for a couple of years but then something in the motor went and it developed a vibration under heavy load. I tried the extra bearings trick and that didn't do anything. So far I am continuing to use it since it still mostly works.

Second was a BBS02 I got used with a battery on some old guys project bike. I trashed the bike (thrift store) and put it on a Rans recumbent. It has worked great for a couple of years. I tuned it down so that I rarely go above level 2 and I still get to feel like I am doing a good amount of work. I use the throttle so I dont have to Fred Flinstone it to get it moving.

Third was a TSDZ8 on another recumbent, this time a delta trike. Motor is probably a year old and has the oem programming with the fairly weak pas levels on 1 and 2. I did have to buy another spyder from bikestuff.eu so I could fit a large chainring up front and that cost me 70. Last I checked, to get a cable to program it, would cost another 70 or so and then I'm not sure what the state of the OSF software is these days. It works well enough and if I need more umph, I just hit the throttle a bit.

Last was a T0seven dmo2. That went on a bike for my wife. It seems to work fine, not super fast but gets that bike, a Townie up to about 15. Its a fairly locked down controller too, not too many things I can change. I'm not seeing any available, at least on Amazon where I prefer to shop.

Out of all of em, the Bafang seems the most bulletproof. Parts are cheap so if I want to change the chainring, its easy enough. Looking online at Varstrom it seems like they have moved off the UART based controller on to canbus. I have an idea of what it is but no clue as to how reliable it is or if it changes the ability to customize the settings on the motor, which was a big plus in my book.

So I'm looking for any recommendations or thoughts on what might be available. Leaning toward another bafang, probably 750w/48v to take advantage of the batteries I already have. What say you all?

The next project:

 

[gromike]

My experience is with a bbs02, which was good and still going; and a tsdz2b, which I was not impressed with.

Now I know I'll catch sh*t here for posting this, but I bought a complete mid-drive ebike for $350 which included shipping:


I did throw another $100 into it to make it usable. My point is $500 for a wimpy mid-drive motor doesn't make sense when you can buy an entire bike with a wimpy mid-drive motor for less. The motor on my bike is a Vinka, who I never heard of before, but a couple of hundred miles so far, and all is good.

 

[Eviltwin68]

Thanks for the reply.

That works if you want that kind of mass produced ebike than sure, thats one way. But I like recumbents and those generally dont come with a motor. I just sold a Lectric 2.0 that was my wifes and built her a Townie with the DM02 motor and an extra mount for one of my batteries. Why? Because I couldn't stand that bike, it was so heavy it took two of us to load it on a bike rack. It handled like a small underpowered motorcycle and you couldn't pedal it faster than 7 mph before it was the motor doing all the work. She wasn't keen on it either and she's not a bike person. Hopefully she will get more use out of the townie.

 

[neptronix]

Man, if you have a 20 inch wheel then i'd absolutely chose a hub motor and forget a mid drive unless you live in really hilly area that requires one.

The advantage of a 20 inch wheel is much higher RPM per MPH; hubmotors can output much more continuous power and torque in a small wheel, which makes them awesome for climbing.

For example here is a kind of lowly 27mm direct drive hub climbing a 6% grade continuously... that's 1500w continuous.. but on a 29er wheel you are looking at more like 1100w continuous.. big difference..

With a geared motor, you'd have to be selective and pick one with a low amount of poles or reduction ratio but results are similar.. much more power from a given motor once we add some volts..

 

[Eviltwin68]

Thanks. I'm not a fan of hub motors. I've played with em. I don't need the bike to go super fast. Mid drives make for a neater install, no extra box with wires to hide somewhere. I can put a large chainring up front to make up for the smaller diameter rear wheel.

 

[stancecoke]

Mid drives make for a neater install, no extra box

Hub motors don't need an extra box, if you choose a battery integrated controller.
The smartest system I know is the YosePower A3 set. Just one cable from the battery to the motor. But it's not available for a 20 inch wheel.

E-Bike Conversion Kit 36V 250W 28" Rear Cassette Motor Kit with 36V Bottle Battery Samsung Cell and Integrated Torque PAS Sensor Model A3

1. Technical DescriptionMotor Type: 36V 250W brushless geared rear cassette motorWheel Size: 28" (pre-built with double-wall rim & 12G black spokes)Compatibility: Works with 8/9/10-speed cassettesMax Speed: 25km/hMax Torque: 56N.mBrake Compatibility: V-brake and disc brakeFork Spacing: Requires...

yosepower.com

 

[aae34]

Seriously pushing on hub motors in a thread asking about mid-drives? teh state of internets these days

Thanks. I'm not a fan of hub motors. I've played with em. I don't need the bike to go super fast. Mid drives make for a neater install, no extra box with wires to hide somewhere. I can put a large chainring up front to make up for the smaller diameter rear wheel.

It looks like you may have asked this in a wrong place.

 

[neptronix]

Seriously pushing on hub motors in a thread asking about mid-drives? teh state of internets these days

It's a valid option given the wheel size!

I would conversely tell someone with a 29er with fat tires to consider a mid drive, since the size requirement for a hub motor goes up as the wheel gets larger and it starts making sense to consider a mid drive.

Just thought i'd throw the idea out there.

 

[hillslayer@]

How durable are the frames on these, seems like adding motor and batteries with the stretched out frame and a heavy rider it might be a little much.

 

[Eviltwin68]

The frames on these Sun bikes are overbuilt, thats why the tend toward the heavy side.

All I'm looking for are recommendations on mid drives, and if anyone has any experience with the newer versions of the Bafangs since they have gone to Can bus. Not my first rodeo on converting a bike.

 

[neptronix]

Hmm too bad you have a 500 dollar limitation.
If you didn't have that, i'd recommend CYC Photon Gen 2 or lightest.bike mid drive ( only with the dual chainring option and throttle though ), because they are both lighter, more powerful, and more efficient.

Bafang is probably where it's at for you.

 

[Eviltwin68]

2 out of the 4 bikes I've retrofitted have 20" wheels. Both are trikes and that is a common size. On the Greenspeed I swapped out the rear hub with an SRAM dual drive, that gave me the higher speeds I was looking for. I had put a larger chainring on it than what came with the motor, but that wasnt enough for my liking.



The other one was a Kett Wiesel, a delta trike that had one driven wheel in the back. There was no way I was going to be able to modify that so I added a much larger (52T) chainring up front to the Tsdz8. The thing with that motor is that there was only one aftermarket spyder that would allow a non oem chainring to fit. That had to come from Poland and it wasnt cheap. But the chainring was standard and was the same size as the single that was originally on the bike.




It's relatively flat around here, though we do see some hills when we go camping. I'm fine with cruising from 10-15mph. The way I have my bikes set up is that they still take some effort on my end to move along, otherwise I'd just stick to a MC and I've had a few of those too.

500 is an arbitrary number but there are more than a few choices to pick from. Going super high end on a motor on a bike I paid 250 for doesn't quite make sense to me. And this particular bike will be used mostly for camping trips unless I really fall in love with it and then I'll have to move it into the rotation with the other 3 bikes.

 

[hillslayer@]

I have 2 bikes that use Bbso2 motors both hardtail mtn bikes . In my opinion this is the best mid -drive for the money I generally don't run them to a really high temperature that is hotter than you can hold your hand on the motor but on occasion I have powered up some really steep 4x4 trails at full power and was sure something was going to fail but they never let me down. Main thing is keeping a high cadence in a gear that's not bogging down the motor.

 

[radec]

The tsdz8 seems pretty hard to beat price wise. I haven't ridden mine enough to give it much of a review. But so far it seems great. Picked one up for 250usd shipped, AliExpress US stock.
For that price you could buy a spare one for parts.

I've also got a toseven dm01, it's been solid for the past couple years I've hard it. still needs some firmware work, but it totally works great for my use case, and hopefully they will figure out the firmware someday.

 

[dgc]

Over the years ridden bikes with Bafang rear geared hub motors up to 500w along with a 500w direct drive rear hub motor, but I have settled on the TSDZ2 and TSDZ2B mid-drives for the way they feel with torque sensing, have them running the OSF with a mild tuneup to suit rideability, I have not tuned them to death as I would go for the TSDZ8 instead. Did have a AKM mid-drive much like a Bafang mid-drive, did not suit me as it was like having a mid-drive version of a rear hub motor with a ON OFF system controlled by the power setting on the display. I do forest, park riding, towpaths etc, the forest riding includes going up short 45 degree climbs but I drop down the gears, running a 9 speed 11t - 46t rear cassette. I do fancy a TSDZ8 but do not really have a need at the moment.

 

[stancecoke]

for the way they feel with torque sensing .... a rear hub motor with a ON OFF system

Wether the system has torque sensing capabilities has nothing to do with the position of the motor.
The linked A3 set has the torquesensor integrated in the cassette. But this is off topic here.

 

[dgc]

Yep, you are quite right, I can only go on my experience and what suits me. I like TSDZ2(B) mid-drives as they suit my requirements, are quick / easy to fit, if needed I can repair them. Over here now police get very interested if they see a bike with a large hub motor in the rear wheel.

 

[hillslayer@]

The other advantage of a bafang is chainring adapters are dirt cheap in 104 bcd or 130 bcd. I am pretty sure I can rig up dual chainrings on a 130 adapter.

 

[dgc]

One can fit double chain rings to TSDZ2(B)s, but as I said before if the Bafang BBS02 mid-drives suit your needs you have your answer, as before I run a 9 speed 11t - 46t rear cassette with a single chain ring up front and that suits my needs, I based my selection originally from the Box Three E-Bike 12t - 50t cassette just trying to keep it simple.

 

[Nix Liou]

Man, if you have a 20 inch wheel then i'd absolutely chose a hub motor and forget a mid drive unless you live in really hilly area that requires one.

I got a folding bike from a friend that he had converted with a ToSeven DM02, with 16 inch tires, and a 54t chainring, seemed to work, but I didn't need a folding bike so I didn't ride it much.


I've enjoyed my ToSeven DM02 motors, but I only have unlocked ones before they locked down the firmware, and they are only limited to 18a, not the 14.5a of new ones. So, ymmv.

 

[hillslayer@]

One can fit double chain rings to TSDZ2(B)s, but as I said before if the Bafang BBS02 mid-drives suit your needs you have your answer, as before I run a 9 speed 11t - 46t rear cassette with a single chain ring up front and that suits my needs, I based my selection originally from the Box Three E-Bike 12t - 50t cassette just trying to keep it simple.

I am using a 5 speed freewheel 14 to 28 with a 56 t chainring. This would kill the average Bbso2 in short order but the freewheel is connected to a 1500 watt hub, on pavement this is all the gearing I need.Doing some trails occasionally could use a 40 t chainring for the slow speed work.

 

[neptronix]

I got a folding bike from a friend that he had converted with a ToSeven DM02, with 16 inch tires, and a 54t chainring, seemed to work, but I didn't need a folding bike so I didn't ride it much.

man 16 inch tires are pretty rough especially at even pedal bike speeds, not much of a loss!

 

[docw009]

I found this Reddit thread where several users complained about the canbus BBS02B having jerky pedal assist in level 1, but one guy says he fixed it using the DPC080 display and the Bafnag Go-app for the phone, Users with other displays could not pair the Bluetooth.

Otherwise Google AI isn't much help. Says the canbus BBS02 is user programmable and they show you uart videos.

I can buy a canbus BBS02B for around $500 on amazon, or go to Johnny Nerdout's site foe a uart version, stil available for $560. I've owned a uart bbs02 for 9 years. Quick and reliable, best if you plan to use the throttle, I giess you would do that a lot with a recumbent. I tried to ride one a while ago, no motor, and like everyone else who tried it, I fell over.

 

[Eviltwin68]

I ended up ordering a Tsdz2 off Aliexpress for 250. It was my first order from them and I was a bit nervous but It came today in a box marked Varstrom and it was fine. I fired it up and it seems to work fine. I ordered it with the EKD01 display and I had a 52t chainring waiting on it.



Swapping out the chainring was a bit more tedious, the bolts were very stiff and I had to use a vise grip on the backside to keep them from spinning. I had a new set that came with the chainring so I wasnt worried if they got a bit chewed on the edges.



I'll start work on mounting it tomorrow. Hopefully there wont be any surprises.

 

[hillslayer@]

52 t would be a flat terrain chainring on a Bbso2 which is almost double the watts of the tsdz2 . If you have any steep hills I would be careful of melting it. I forgot you only have a 16 inch tire's you probably good..