Better brand: Pinty or Voilamart?

[Ru14real]

I am looking into a basic Ebike kit for under 200 dollars. I have been looking at Amazon and Fleabay. These are the only motors I can com up with on these sites. Looking into front wheel 1000w systems, with the thumb throttle. Just looking for advise on which to pull the trigger on, or if there is another kit out there, please someone fill me in on it.

 

[markz]

Where are you located?
How fast do you want to go?
Are you going up hills?
Which means what voltage 36V, 48V, 60V?
What size of wheel do you have?
Which means is it a lycra thin tire, hybrid, cruiser, mtb, fat?
How much weight are we talking here?
Which means how heavy are you and your cargo?
What about battery, what are you going to do about a battery?

All those Q's determines whether you go geared motor, direct drive motor or mid drive.

You were here last month'ish in July, posting about QS motor; What became of all that?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=95411&p=1397247#p1397247

Reading from your other post, those Battery Racks can be bought from places like BMS Battery.
Main link - https://bmsbattery.com/
Battery Rack - https://bmsbattery.com/search?controller=search&orderby=position&orderway=desc&search_query=rack&submit_search=

BTW this was what you found, and are looking at currently, all from your other post.
post - https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=95411&p=1397247#p1399126
links from your post
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XPX2B4D/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A82RUP8N11HNY&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C15TR3T/?coliid=IZX6PHQ2WNRIK&colid=2836AWA2VLFNU&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

I personally would steer well clear of that battery, why you ask? Because its unknown quality!
Unit Pack Power is good to buy from.
https://unitpackpower.en.alibaba.com/

or if there is another kit out there

You can look at Yescomusa for a kit to suit your needs.
https://www.yescomusa.com/products/brushless-electric-bicycle-engine-48v-1000w-rear-wheel-hub-motor-kit

If you want better quality, which means you gotta spend more money....but not that much more money....really!
The Leafbike.com kits are top notch, plus they have the rock solid 1500W
http://leafbike.com/products/diy-bike-conversion-kit/26-inch-electric-hub-motor-kit/c-17/

For battery, well that is where you start spending money. You can gamble on Aliexpress/Alibaba/ebay if you want cheap, you can also buy quality on Aliexpress/Alibaba/ebay.

www.ebikes.ca in Vancouver Canada

www.em3ev.com in China

Home Depot lawn equipment batteries like the EGO 56V, you buy them right now just down the street, could be covered under warranty if you dont alter them. You can buy a charger to go along with the battery. They do sell the 7.5Ah, good for 412Wh

Minimal Assist (using motor only on hills, slower ~30kph setup) 6-8 Wh/km
Typical Assist (~40 kph with pedaling, motor on all the time) 9-12 Wh/km
Power Hungry (either no pedaling, or hauling a load, or going really fast) 14-20 Wh/km

I am looking into a basic Ebike kit for under 200 dollars. I have been looking at Amazon and Fleabay. These are the only motors I can com up with on these sites. Looking into front wheel 1000w systems, with the thumb throttle. Just looking for advise on which to pull the trigger on, or if there is another kit out there, please someone fill me in on it.

 

[Ru14real]

or if there is another kit out there

You can look at Yescomusa for a kit to suit your needs.
https://www.yescomusa.com/products/brushless-electric-bicycle-engine-48v-1000w-rear-wheel-hub-motor-kit

If you want better quality, which means you gotta spend more money....but not that much more money....really!
The Leafbike.com kits are top notch, plus they have the rock solid 1500W
http://leafbike.com/products/diy-bike-conversion-kit/26-inch-electric-hub-motor-kit/c-17/

I am looking into a basic Ebike kit for under 200 dollars. I have been looking at Amazon and Fleabay. These are the only motors I can com up with on these sites. Looking into front wheel 1000w systems, with the thumb throttle. Just looking for advise on which to pull the trigger on, or if there is another kit out there, please someone fill me in on it.

[/quote]

Where are you located?

Illinois

How fast do you want to go?

Does not matter. I am building a 2 stroke hybrid on my cruiser.

Are you going up hills?

Yea hills, not mountains though.

Which means what voltage 36V, 48V, 60V?

Looking for a 48v system.

What size of wheel do you have?

On a 26 inch wheel.


Which means is it a lycra thin tire, hybrid, cruiser, mtb, fat?

answered.

How much weight are we talking here?

I am about 215 more or less, plus another 50 lbs for the bike. Not super sure, I am guesstimating.


Which means how heavy are you and your cargo?

Too much for my fat ass to peddle.

What about battery, what are you going to do about a battery?

Have not ordered the battery yet, but I am thinking about this one. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C15TR3T/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1_1_1?smid=AF0FBM1E362GS&psc=1

All those Q's determines whether you go geared motor, direct drive motor or mid drive.

I am leaning towards a direct drive. I dont need to go a hundred miles per hour, because the two stroke will do the heavy lifting down hills and on straight aways. Just need the front wheel drive to pull me up the hills because the two stroke is geared high with a 36 tooth sprocket. !000w motor is a nice one to have,,,,,,,,,I think. Also front wheel drive.

You were here last month in July, posting about QS motor and the 125C motor, what became of all that?s

Going another direction. The 125 motor is a pipe dream, and I have became disgusted with two strokes. Just too much work on them. I wrote to QS on FB and they quoted me an additional 300 usd for cargo fee on top of shipping (135 dollars) and decided they were trying to rip me off. Also its just to hard to find a QS motor in the states, so I bailed. Also I figure it would be a good entry point for my first ebike kit...........Am I wrong?

Also, I just need to know I can go 20 miles (max) on the battery with out any problems.

 

[markz]

S/H prices are normally always high, its just another factor to consider.
I purchased an ebay motor, 26" fat front for $240cdn so like what 25% discount for usd, so $180usd, but free s/h.
You can search my threads easy enough, 2 kits, both fat, so doesnt suit your needs.

I studied gas and electric conversions for a long time before deciding on electric. It did not take long actually as I needed silence to ride in parks and on pathways. Its just the price difference between $150 gas kit and $1000 electric kit incl. battery is a big jump. I am glad I didnt waste my time and money on them gas china dolls. You are right though, gas has its place, its just far too noisy and too much work, as you said.

Going another direction. The 125 motor is a pipe dream, and I have became disgusted with two strokes. Just too much work on them. I wrote to QS on FB and they quoted me an additional 300 usd for cargo fee on top of shipping (135 dollars) and decided they were trying to rip me off. Also its just to hard to find a QS motor in the states, so I bailed. Also I figure it would be a good entry point for my first ebike kit...........Am I wrong?

Also, I just need to know I can go 20 miles (max) on the battery with out any problems.

 

[Ru14real]

Stupid question here, but is the red button a kill switch. so when you press it the motor cuts off?

https://www.amazon.com/Control-Throttle-Scooter-Electric-Indicator/dp/B074DF1S4R/ref=sr_1_2?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1535998101&sr=1-2&keywords=thumb+throttle+ebike&dpID=41fYw2%252B-pkL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

 

[999zip999]

Yes . Where are you located ? Buy a kit where everything is plug-and-play if something doesn't work go after them over and over again to they send you another part you do not have to send the part that's broken back they're not going to pay for shipping and neither should you. Meaning cheap can come with problems. Even expensive ones they make big volume and they can't always send you a working kit.

 

[Ru14real]

Are all connecters standard? I mean will the connecters match up if I was to get a yescomus hub and a sabatron controller? Is it easy to upgrade parts and components? I might have to change some things around, since every vender I am looking at ethier is too expensive, are are sold out of the product I am interested in.

 

[markz]

Nothing is standardized, nothing at all.

Are all connecters standard? I mean will the connecters match up if I was to get a yescomus hub and a sabatron controller? Is it easy to upgrade parts and components? I might have to change some things around, since every vender I am looking at ethier is too expensive, are are sold out of the product I am interested in.

 

[Ru14real]

Could someone please explain PAS too me? To PAS or not to PAS, that is the question.

I see some sites say that it has something to do with peddling. I dont plan to do alot of peddling, so would it be a recruitment to have?

Also what is Hall and Hall effect, and why is it important, or is it something that does not mean anything?

I wish I really knew more about this stuff

 

[MadRhino]

PAS is for Pedal Assist System: the pedal cadence and/or torque is controlling the motor input
You don't need this if you are not going to pedal

Hall effect throttle is the most common. Hall sensors inside are reading the rotation of a thumb throttle lever, grip twist throttle, or half grip twist throttle.

 

[AHicks]

Just another opinion, but if you don't want to peddle/use a PAS system, direct drive may leave you wanting in a couple of situations. Like waiting to cross a busy street for instance. If you think you're going to accelerate quickly with a DD without peddle assist, you may be waiting for a rather large break in traffic.

PAS is a very easy system to hook up/install (bordering on brain dead). I would suggest you make it part of your plans.

 

[donn]

I'd been led to expect that, but it turns out that my 1500W setup does accelerate pretty well from a dead stop. I'll be pedaling too, and indeed using everything, so the computer might be showing upwards of 1200W if I get a chance to look at it, and still there's no rubber burned, but I make those left turns into traffic dramatically faster than I used to on pedal power. The 750-1000W range under discussion here won't have as much yank in it, of course, but it's also a matter of hub configuration - I went for 6T, 8.5 rpm/volt, which is better for low speed acceleration (and for larger diameter wheels.)

I can imagine that PAS has its merits, and most of those who have it seem to like it, I was just deterred by the extra complexity when I was prepared to use the throttle anyway.

 

[markz]

if you don't want to peddle/use a PAS system

Probably a typo there AHicks!
Reading it a few times now, I think you meant by that "/" is...
"if you don't want to peddle then don't use a PAS system."



Clearly - If you DO NOT WANT TO PEDAL, DO NOT USE A PAS SYSTEM and only use the throttle on the handle bars.

If you want to force yourself to pedal for exercise, then yes; install the PAS system.

Of course you can spend no money on simple PAS already integrated into a generic controller.
Or you can spend a ton of money just on torque sensing system for pedal assist.

GrinTech - http://www.ebikes.ca
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/torque-sensors.html

More info
http://www.ebikes.ca/learn/pedal-assist.html
http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/advanced-pas-kits.html

 

[AHicks]

if you don't want to peddle/use a PAS system

Probably a typo there AHicks!
Reading it a few times now, I think you meant by that "/" is...
"if you don't want to peddle then don't use a PAS system."



Clearly - If you DO NOT WANT TO PEDAL, DO NOT USE A PAS SYSTEM and only use the throttle on the handle bars.

If you want to force yourself to pedal for exercise, then yes; install the PAS system.

Of course you can spend no money on simple PAS already integrated into a generic controller.
Or you can spend a ton of money just on torque sensing system for pedal assist.

GrinTech - http://www.ebikes.ca
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/torque-sensors.html

More info
http://www.ebikes.ca/learn/pedal-assist.html
http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/advanced-pas-kits.html

Markz, my point was that in my opinion, if you don't want to pedal or use a PAS system, a DD hub may not be the best plan. From a standing start, or at speeds under maybe 5mph, they are pretty much gutless - even when going with a 1500w hub.

When viewed as part of a bigger picture, many PAS systems are pretty inexpensive as generally the only additional cost is the price of the sensor, and the time and trouble to plug it in.... Again my opinion.

 

[MadRhino]

... If you think you're going to accelerate quickly with a DD without peddle assist, you may be waiting for a rather large break in traffic.

I believe that you have no idea about what can be done with a DD hub. Even very conservative power upgrade, is making pedal input useless.

Big DD hubs can easily beat most motorcycles on a start. Even a relatively small 16 lbs hub can beat cars in acceleration.

 

[AHicks]

My bad. I thought we were talking about a 200 dollar system.

From what I've seen, you aren't going to get the kind of performance you're talking about without spending many times that amount....

Too, performance is a subjective thing. A bike I consider tame may totally overwhelm my wife for instance....

 

[MadRhino]

A cheap Yescomusa ebay kit can be mod to do 50 Mph and accelerate cars on a start, very quick, cheap and easy. Many here had done it and it is well documented.

It is true that doing this mod, would normally require some upgrades to the bike, to make it a good, safe ride.

 

[EbikeAus]

I got the voilamart rear hub 1000 w hub kit with lcd display off ebay and could not be happier with it.
Seems like a good motor

 

[MadRhino]

I got the voilamart rear hub 1000 w hub kit with lcd display off ebay and could not be happier with it.
Seems like a good motor

Yep. They are all about the same. Motors don’t need to be expansive, to upgrade their power and speed. The expansive part is mounting it on a bike suitable to ride higher power, faster. The faster you go, the better the frame, wheels, brakes, that you need.

 

[AHicks]

A cheap Yescomusa ebay kit can be mod to do 50 Mph and accelerate cars on a start, very quick, cheap and easy. Many here had done it and it is well documented.

It is true that doing this mod, would normally require some upgrades to the bike, to make it a good, safe ride.

A DD hub, wound to allow 50mph actual, that will accelerate as good as a car?

That sounds pretty interesting. A link please? I ask, as the only one I found when looking a minute ago, is set up for 470rpm - about 45-50 KMH. This is similar to a 1000w Leafbike conversion I have, that uses a 20ah battery, which is the source of the experience I suggested above.

Though I agree it's quick, cheap and easy, we're way off when it comes to agreeing on the performance available.

If what you say is true, I'd really like to know more about what was done (with specifics) to get that kind of performance.

Until then, I'll stand by my opinion which is that a gear drive will dust a DD from a standing stop and at lower speeds.

 

[MadRhino]

A cheap Yescomusa ebay kit can be mod to do 50 Mph and accelerate cars on a start, very quick, cheap and easy. Many here had done it and it is well documented.

It is true that doing this mod, would normally require some upgrades to the bike, to make it a good, safe ride.

A DD hub, wound to allow 50mph actual, that will accelerate as good as a car?

That sounds pretty interesting. A link please? I ask, as the only one I found when looking a minute ago, is set up for 470rpm - about 45-50 KMH. This is similar to a 1000w Leafbike conversion I have...

...

If what you say is true, I'd really like to know more about what was done (with specifics) to get that kind of performance.

Until then, I'll stand by my opinion which is that a gear drive will dust a DD from a standing stop and at lower speeds

Motors are not stucked to the specs they are giving you.

Take your 1000w motor, feed it with 24s lipo, upgrade its wiring, beef the traces of the controller and add solder to the shunt to trick it feeding 10kw...

No geared hub will stand a chance to even come close to keep up, no matter the mods you are willing to do on it. That is the advantage of DD hubs: No gears or clutch to strip, and a copper mass that can survive bursts of power 10 times their rating.

 

[donn]

Egads. Is that needed, to get good acceleration out of a 1000W DD hub?

If it isn't going to scorch the pavement, still it's a fairly powerful boost, including from a dead stop, am I right? Without any modifications whatever required.

 

[Nickelodeon]

You don't need to setup the PAS from these cheap hub motors, they accelerate exactly the same with a throttle. We've built a few MTB's with these Voilamart motors and they work perfectly. If you want quick acceleration you just start twist the throttle and pedal at the same time. Having PAS doesn't make it any quicker. Full power on the twist throttle while pedaling yourself is the same as pedalling with PAS on the maximum setting.

 

[AHicks]

You don't need to setup the PAS from these cheap hub motors, they accelerate exactly the same with a throttle. We've built a few MTB's with these Voilamart motors and they work perfectly. If you want quick acceleration you just start twist the throttle and pedal at the same time. Having PAS doesn't make it any quicker. Full power on the twist throttle while pedaling yourself is the same as pedalling with PAS on the maximum setting.

"If you want quick acceleration you just start twist the throttle and pedal at the same time. Having PAS doesn't make it any quicker."
Agreed. At the same time, PAS doesn't slow it either. IMHO, it's a very good investment in the cost, and the time it takes to install I honestly don't know why people would not want to install it. There is no downside to it!

 

[donn]

What happens if the sensor fails? Say, nothing coming down the line. Are you just back to pure throttle control, or can you fail down to human power only?