Better hill start modifications

[mikeoptics]

Hi everyone,
I have a super73 Zx and I live in an area with plenty of hills. I find that the stock controller cannot differentiate between a flat start and a hill start. Is there a controller/modification to tell my system to supply my motor with more power to allow me to get to speed quicker?

 

[E-HP]

Hi everyone,
I have a super73 Zx and I live in an area with plenty of hills. I find that the stock controller cannot differentiate between a flat start and a hill start. Is there a controller/modification to tell my system to supply my motor with more power to allow me to get to speed quicker?

The answer to better hill performance is more current, which involves the controller and battery. If your battery is up to the task, then you could upgrade the controller or you could modify it to fool itself into providing more current than it's designed for (search "shunt mod"). Hotrodding the controller has the downside of the controller no longer being able to protect itself from providing too much current continuously, so you have to be the one protecting it from frying itself. If you are disciplined, then it may work for you; if not, you may be buying a new controller soon. If you mod the controller and the battery isn't 'up to the task, then you'll be shopping for both a new controller and battery.

 

[mikeoptics]

Hi everyone,
I have a super73 Zx and I live in an area with plenty of hills. I find that the stock controller cannot differentiate between a flat start and a hill start. Is there a controller/modification to tell my system to supply my motor with more power to allow me to get to speed quicker?

With respect, its your job to differentiate Mike, not the controller's job. 'You' choose the power setting of your controller whether starting to pedal on a flat or on a hill. If the controller at maximum power level aka amperage can take you up the hill, then up you go. When I approach a hill, I many times automatically click one or two power levels up to compensate for the gradient difference. My job. The controller does what I instruct it.

Other element of course is your involvement and that means bike gearing. I presume your Super73 has a rear hub motor. A geared hub motor will get you up the hill generally better than a non-geared hub motor. Gearing on the bike matters as well if you participate. When I climb hills, I look at it as a mini-interval. I provide about as much power as the motor to climb the hill. Easier on the motor in terms of heat and I get a short burst work out.

I wouldnt stop on hills out of choice. Many of them have traffic lights which mean I have no option. Also the stock controller limits the output of the bike and for some reason doesnt immediately kick in unless I am already travelling a certain speed. Thus im left pedalling like a mad man on an ebike to get off the line whilst im being overtaken by groups of regular cyclists.

 

[mikeoptics]

Hi everyone,
I have a super73 Zx and I live in an area with plenty of hills. I find that the stock controller cannot differentiate between a flat start and a hill start. Is there a controller/modification to tell my system to supply my motor with more power to allow me to get to speed quicker?

The answer to better hill performance is more current, which involves the controller and battery. If your battery is up to the task, then you could upgrade the controller or you could modify it to fool itself into providing more current than it's designed for (search "shunt mod"). Hotrodding the controller has the downside of the controller no longer being able to protect itself from providing too much current continuously, so you have to be the one protecting it from frying itself. If you are disciplined, then it may work for you; if not, you may be buying a new controller soon. If you mod the controller and the battery isn't 'up to the task, then you'll be shopping for both a new controller and battery.

Thank you for the advice. I'll do some research. I would rather not kill my battery, so i'll look at new controllers.

 

[eMark]

I have a super73 Zx and I live in an area with plenty of hills. I find that the stock controller cannot differentiate between a flat start and a hill start.

Thanks to Europe EPAC ebike regulations and resulting built-in design features

I wouldnt stop on hills out of choice. Many of them have traffic lights which mean I have no option. Also the stock controller limits the output of the bike and for some reason doesnt immediately kick in unless I am already travelling a certain speed. Thus im left pedalling like a mad man on an ebike to get off the line whilst im being overtaken by groups of regular cyclists.

With only a 250W (EPAC) motor(throttle) assist function is for climbing hills with pedal power still the primary driving force? That's how they arrive at an estimted range of 40 to 80Km (25 to 50 mile range) with pedal power Numbero 1.

Super73 ZX fitted their 48v 250w EPAC motor to the rear hub, with 1350w peak output achieved with the 4 riding modes, with an estimated 40-80km range.

European ebike rules IMO are ridiculous (only a 250W hub motor). Gives a European meaning to "assist". Motor assist function becomes secondary to pedal power ... even when climbing hills in Europe/England.

If you're going to up the Controller amperage output you may want to consider a 500W motor. Would imagine more than a few British have upgraded their Controller as well as motor. Having a 48V battery and only a 250W motor is just not right.

Just read another review that the ZX comes with a 750W motor. Which is right? Does it come with 250W motor or 750W (?depends on country regulations?) Is it possible to get Super73 ZX with 750W motor in California ??

 

[4πr^2]

...Thus im left pedalling like a mad man on an ebike to get off the line whilst im being overtaken by groups of regular cyclists.

You might have to define what this actually means a bit more closely. If you mean spinning the crank at high RPM and not really going anywhere, then possibly you need a taller gear. If you mean standing on the pedal and it doesn't turn, then possibly lower gears.

Either way, others have good info on the motor/controller side, but you might also consider the gear side - especially if you have some edge-case use like a lot of hill climbing.

 

[eMark]

Guys ... that's typical of UK EAPC (Pedelec) regulation ... kind of like a kick start standup escooter/eskateboard having to get up to a certain speed before motor assist kicks in. Thus a problem when stopped on a steep hill and having to pedal hard before getting enuf speed for motor assist to kick in. Meanwhile other pedal cyclists that didn't have to stop have enuf speed momentum to go whizzing by ...

Also the stock controller limits the output of the bike and for some reason doesn't immediately kick in unless I am already travelling a certain speed. Thus im left pedalling like a mad man on an ebike to get off the line whilst im being overtaken by groups of regular cyclists.

Pedelecs are classed as regular non-assisted bicycles in UK. However, if they supply electrical assistance when travelling at more than 25kph (15.5mph), have a motor which generates more than 250 Watts of power or motor assistance can be provided without bike's pedals in motion (i.e. Twist and Go throttle) they will be legally treated as a moped or motorcycle that must be licensed and subject to a different regulatory framework than an EAPC ebike.

I find that the stock controller cannot differentiate between a flat start and a hill start. Is there a controller/modification to tell my system to supply my motor with more power to allow me to get to speed quicker?

Yes, if you know how to install a legal Twist & Go throttle, which may be illegal on a UK EAPC Pedelec. Since January 1 2016, the only "Twist & Go" throttles legal within the UK’s EAPC legislation are those that assist the rider without pedalling no more than a maximum speed of 6km/h (3.7mph) – i.e. starting assistance only.

You need to visit your local Pedelect bike shop to see if they can help you up the max speed to 9.5kph (5.9mph). They should agree that 5.95kph (3.7mph) is of little help for your hill need. Find out what they think of the current "Twist & Go" legal conversion (5.95kph) and restricted 250W motor limit.

If your ebike (non-Pedelec) doesn't meet UK EAPC regulations ... either because the motor is more powerful than 250W, has been modified with an illegal "Twist & Go" throttle or if it assists you when you’re pedalling more than 15.5 mph – it will need to be registered, insured and taxed as a motor vehicle. In this case, you will also need a driving licence, and you must wear a motorcycle helmet.

 

[afzal]

I have a super73 Zx

This, right ?

Which ride mode it was set to ? EPAC ?

I find that the stock controller cannot differentiate between a flat start and a hill start. Is there a controller/modification to tell my system to supply my motor with more power to allow me to get to speed quicker?

If the controller is fed by a torque sensor, your pedalling effort would indirectly help controller differentiate between a flat & hill and supply more torque to the motor when required, but,
1. Torque sensor would need to be installed
2. Additional device (like CA) might be required to translate torque sensor output to suit the stock controller (assuming it has a throttle input)
3. If ebike was legal before, i think modifications will make it illegal

Also the stock controller limits the output of the bike and for some reason doesnt immediately kick in unless I am already travelling a certain speed. Thus im left pedalling like a mad man on an ebike to get off the line whilst im being overtaken by groups of regular cyclists.

It might be due to higher PAS pedal rpm start setting of the controller, if it is configurable, reducing it would help

 

[zerodish]

What you want is hill holding technology. If the wheel senses it is rolling backwards then the controller uses just enough torque to stop the wheel. Then when you are taking off it will feel like starting on a flat road. The problem is web sites that talk about this talk about brake based hill holders. We should perhaps start calling it ehill holding technology. One danger is if there is any friction between the hub and gears you could end up dumping the chain. So realistically you don't want any more torque than you can keep up with pedaling. Downhill hill eholding technology is also possible and you may want to program it not to go at insane speeds. I have been up to 56 mph on a heavily loaded touring bicycle.

 

[tom355]

A shunt mod is easy and would help for a stronger launch if your battery is able to deliver the amps. It has no effect on the speed limit and the fact that you have to pedal. But you should also be in the right gear when you launch. Do not ride slow or launch with your longest gear.