skeetab5780
1 MW
anyone have a link or source for new big blocks? there is one on ebay that ships from France but its over $300 with shipping...
BIG BLOCK alternative Motor
- Thread starter crossbreak
- Start date
skeetab5780 said:
I went to buy a replacement bearing once and was asked how much play it needed (what code). I thought I dont want any play but if the application involves heat it has to have play in while cold I think. Maybe it wont do it once warm or with a load on it.
Altair
1 kW
skeetab,
I'm not sure what you mean by "new" motors, but I bought mine from here:
http://e-bike-diffusion.com/index.php?module=produit&prd_id=509&url_retour=http%253A%252F%252Fe-bike-diffusion.com%253A80%252Findex.php%253Fmodule%253Dcategorie%2526code_cat%253D24%2526page_start_num%253D1
I'm not sure what you mean by "new" motors, but I bought mine from here:
http://e-bike-diffusion.com/index.php?module=produit&prd_id=509&url_retour=http%253A%252F%252Fe-bike-diffusion.com%253A80%252Findex.php%253Fmodule%253Dcategorie%2526code_cat%253D24%2526page_start_num%253D1
nutnspecial
10 MW
When pulling a cover for rotor/bearing remove/inspect, mark covers for orientation. Then when reinstalling carefully align cover, start the screws, then tighten them fairly equally in increments.
I thought the bearings were pretty standard?
Also, don't know what that noise is, if it's major, or if you'll notice it on the bike.
But it's an abnormality, and would open it to check it out.
Skeetab, here's the seller I bought from. http://www.ebay.com/usr/rue-des-loisirs-creatifs-hk?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 ~30kV like yours. I wonder if it's the same french seller you mentioned; if not, maybe he could still get the motor shipped from HongKong like before.
I don't expect to run more power without more weight, but would love to find at least as capable a motor @ similar low kV, and maybe with (side) mounts like bzh is using/selling.
I thought the bearings were pretty standard?
Also, don't know what that noise is, if it's major, or if you'll notice it on the bike.
But it's an abnormality, and would open it to check it out.
Skeetab, here's the seller I bought from. http://www.ebay.com/usr/rue-des-loisirs-creatifs-hk?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 ~30kV like yours. I wonder if it's the same french seller you mentioned; if not, maybe he could still get the motor shipped from HongKong like before.
I don't expect to run more power without more weight, but would love to find at least as capable a motor @ similar low kV, and maybe with (side) mounts like bzh is using/selling.
bzhwindtalker
100 kW
Same seller (bht)
Overclocker
10 kW
the noise is weird. i think it is related to bearing. so i opened the motor
the side w/ halls has this wavy springy "ring" at the bearing, while the sprocket side doesn't have:
maybe the sprocket-side bearing is jittering in its place? what do you think?
the side w/ halls has this wavy springy "ring" at the bearing, while the sprocket side doesn't have:
maybe the sprocket-side bearing is jittering in its place? what do you think?
Skalabala
1 kW
I still have my noise problem. Waiting for new controller on snail mail 
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=72393
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=72393
nutnspecial
10 MW
Any bearing play should be evident in it's id, od, and internal tolerances (to itself and the covers) with basic inspection. With covers off, you can also easily check each bearing for internal smoothness, though I'm doubtful that's an issue either?
I think then I'd pull the rotor and look for any signs of light contact somewhere between it and the elements of stator and covers.
.....
Thanks bzh. Should we check with him for the lower kV or are you selling them or similar?
I've only noticed you selling the higher kV ones, but like the mounting style (and pricing).
I thought 70kV might be less power capable, because they're slightly voltage limited by the size of reduction then needed. To use the same 6-7kw with 70kV I'd need a 12 to 110 reduction (or higher), or x2 amps+ to offset the lower volts.
.....
Skalabala, I just looked at your thread and vid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CGpjqkMOfk
I hope you get it all sorted easily. Have you done the typical phase and hall color shuffle for confirmed proper orientation? Checked the halls? That might rule out the controller being the issue. I'll read a little more and reply over there.
I think then I'd pull the rotor and look for any signs of light contact somewhere between it and the elements of stator and covers.
.....
Thanks bzh. Should we check with him for the lower kV or are you selling them or similar?
I've only noticed you selling the higher kV ones, but like the mounting style (and pricing).
I thought 70kV might be less power capable, because they're slightly voltage limited by the size of reduction then needed. To use the same 6-7kw with 70kV I'd need a 12 to 110 reduction (or higher), or x2 amps+ to offset the lower volts.
.....
Skalabala, I just looked at your thread and vid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CGpjqkMOfk
I hope you get it all sorted easily. Have you done the typical phase and hall color shuffle for confirmed proper orientation? Checked the halls? That might rule out the controller being the issue. I'll read a little more and reply over there.
9lives
10 W
Skalabala, your not running a cycle analyst by any chance? When I hooked mine up it run rough and would cut out at but was smooth when I run straight from Lyen controller without ca. Turned out it was an obscure amperage setting buried in ca3 that was causing my issues.Skalabala said:I still have my noise problem. Waiting for new controller on snail mail
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=72393
Dauntless
100 TW
skeetab5780 said:
1500w $75. http://pt.aliexpress.com/item/1500W-48V-DC-brush-motor-Electric-Scooter-motor-2-wheel-electric-scooter-motor/32368901296.html?spm=2114.02010208.3.27.7MnHju&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2,searchweb201602_1_10017_10005_10006_10034_10021_507_10022_508_10020_10018_10019,searchweb201603_9&btsid=bb8a3a2d-e185-4be0-82ea-478e2ecca668
Or $123 with a controller. http://pt.aliexpress.com/item/1500W-48V-DC-brushless-motor-and-controller-Electric-Scooter-motor-2-wheel-electric-scooter-motor-fit/32393515576.html?spm=2114.02010208.3.147.7MnHju&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2,searchweb201602_1_10017_10005_10006_10034_10021_507_10022_508_10020_10018_10019,searchweb201603_9&btsid=bb8a3a2d-e185-4be0-82ea-478e2ecca668
bzhwindtalker
100 kW
Dauntless said:
completely different motor man. Maybe not bad, but different for sure.
bzhwindtalker
100 kW
nutspecial said:
70 kv ones with proper reduction (8-60 on 24" wheel, 72v) is actually more capable than the 35kv from bht geared for similar top speed, because the motor spins better at low speeds. Also a good 0,5kg lighter for the same copper.
Bearing mounting is not ideal on the ones you can find, same as on the GNG engines there is nothing keeping the front bearing and rotor assemby to come out of the front plate excepted magnetic pull and bearing press fit.
Dauntless
100 TW
Not completely different. They go on about different motors here, all about the same class as the one I posted. He wanted alternatives.
skeetab5780
1 MW
Ya those motors you linked are so wide. For that one reason itll never be used on my projects. Id prefer a bht or newer big block with the same rough design/mounting capabilities
Overclocker
10 kW
skeetab i hope you don't mind if i borrow your pic
Question 1: is it good idea to do regen braking on this kind of setup?
i believe it's 52T to 11T
i plan to use #35 chain
Question 2: are Sabvoton controller compatible w/ this motor? using that variable regen really sounds interesting
skeetab5780
1 MW
Anyone try or think about trying one of these newer Golden Motor 3000w BLDC. They looks pretty ideal for my type of ride I want to build.
Altair
1 kW
As usual, they don't specify kV.
It's a BIG motor at 18cm diameter...
It's a BIG motor at 18cm diameter...
skeetab5780
1 MW
its not that big, the diameter is the length of the round pancake of the motor. It is just as skinny as the BHT width wise, and twice the output power with a similar sized output shaft.
I talked to Golden Motor and they confirmed it is a hall sensor motor. it weights in at about 19 pounds so its a bit bigger than the BHT
I talked to Golden Motor and they confirmed it is a hall sensor motor. it weights in at about 19 pounds so its a bit bigger than the BHT
skeetab5780
1 MW
Overclocker said:
skeetab i hope you don't mind if i borrow your pic
Question 1: is it good idea to do regen braking on this kind of setup?
i believe it's 52T to 11T
i plan to use #35 chain
Question 2: are Sabvoton controller compatible w/ this motor? using that variable regen really sounds interesting
Regen will be fine with this setup, just to warn you. The thing that bothered me the most with this setup was that there is no freewheel and the motor drag was always there when coasting. But if you add a freewheel then the regen is out the window.
nutnspecial
10 MW
Thanks Bzh, I'm not 100% clear on how the 70kV works out better, at least when you want high power?
It seems you'll either need an even bigger reduction to deal with higher voltage, or run alot more amps, which require a 24fet controller and might be harder on motor and battery.
. . . the thinking is with more mechanical gearing to offset less motor rpm range on the higher kV, yours deals with low speed better. Does that hold true as you up amps to make >6kw? (like 22s and 90a on 11:50 bht -VS- 16s x 130a on 11:90 bigblock as a rough example.)
I've been happy with less mechanical reduction and a more balanced voltage/amperage to use 6-7kw on 16s-105a through 20sx73a.
My amateur thinking is the only difference between the 30kV and 70kV is a different reduction when using same vehicle speed, weight, and power?
Water cooling is a definite worthy investment, as these little things can really be pushed. Forced cooling to get a near constant 7-10hp make these things well worth their weight @ ~10lbs.
. . . .
Skeetab, what project are you thinking of putting that 20lb beast on?
So it already has a water jacket ready for forced cooling?
Also, did you ever 'push' the bht on your bike - is it still working well?
My thoughts above- on a bike the bigblock/bht @ 11lbs is perfect. Even better with cooling. However more weight would be acceptable on a heavier build/ a road build. At that point I figured a big hub motor would be more desirable for system simplicity and hassle free use of regen though?
(I would never choose non-fw middrive in first place, and running regen back through drive chain seems problematic)
It seems you'll either need an even bigger reduction to deal with higher voltage, or run alot more amps, which require a 24fet controller and might be harder on motor and battery.
. . . the thinking is with more mechanical gearing to offset less motor rpm range on the higher kV, yours deals with low speed better. Does that hold true as you up amps to make >6kw? (like 22s and 90a on 11:50 bht -VS- 16s x 130a on 11:90 bigblock as a rough example.)
I've been happy with less mechanical reduction and a more balanced voltage/amperage to use 6-7kw on 16s-105a through 20sx73a.
My amateur thinking is the only difference between the 30kV and 70kV is a different reduction when using same vehicle speed, weight, and power?
Water cooling is a definite worthy investment, as these little things can really be pushed. Forced cooling to get a near constant 7-10hp make these things well worth their weight @ ~10lbs.
. . . .
Skeetab, what project are you thinking of putting that 20lb beast on?
So it already has a water jacket ready for forced cooling?
Also, did you ever 'push' the bht on your bike - is it still working well?
My thoughts above- on a bike the bigblock/bht @ 11lbs is perfect. Even better with cooling. However more weight would be acceptable on a heavier build/ a road build. At that point I figured a big hub motor would be more desirable for system simplicity and hassle free use of regen though?
(I would never choose non-fw middrive in first place, and running regen back through drive chain seems problematic)
sn0wchyld
100 kW
skeetab5780 said:Anyone try or think about trying one of these newer Golden Motor 3000w BLDC. They looks pretty ideal for my type of ride I want to build.
ive heard the thermal path on the 5kw model is crap, as bad as a hub motor (windings barely contact outer cover, if at all) - so i wouldn't be too confident of an improvement on this one. Price is certainly inviting though... that said i'd be more tempted by a rv120pro or a transmagnetic motor... if you can get hold of the transmag guys, who despite making good motors dont seem so keen on sales hah, been trying to buy one for over a month!
Overclocker
10 kW
skeetab5780 said:
now i'm getting worried if i made the right choice w/ my new build! LOL
i'm gonna use this hub for the convenient sprocket & rotor mounting. non freewheeling
the regen i could probably live without if it doesn't work well
as for coasting... the no-load current draw is like 1.3A right? i think i could live w/ that. what you get in return is that you don't have to worry about the freewheel breaking etc.
nutnspecial
10 MW
I would personally never choose it. There would be a bit less efficiency possibly even with regen I'm assuming, a little higher wear on chain/sprockets, and regen would probably complicate things. I'd love to have regen or even a little motor drag to aid braking, but love to have a fw more for pedalling, efficiency, and overall feel. Without a nice little cvt or 2spd transmission with clutch I think I'm staying with this, and just relying/wearing brakes.
But it's "6 / one half dozen", because of brake wear, fw expense, their limits, system complexity to incorporate, etc, so don't feel bad about the choice because there are tradeoffs either way.
Just please be sure to let us know how you like it and if/what you think of regen should you use it.
These little motors are so awesome for a lighter highpower mid build imo!
edit/ps: I'm considering non fw for my heavier build, depending on if I use a small motor or even pedals. It just feels like there should be a 'clutch', and a 2spd or cvt would be awesome.
But it's "6 / one half dozen", because of brake wear, fw expense, their limits, system complexity to incorporate, etc, so don't feel bad about the choice because there are tradeoffs either way.
Just please be sure to let us know how you like it and if/what you think of regen should you use it.
These little motors are so awesome for a lighter highpower mid build imo!
edit/ps: I'm considering non fw for my heavier build, depending on if I use a small motor or even pedals. It just feels like there should be a 'clutch', and a 2spd or cvt would be awesome.
Overclocker
10 kW
will do!
i failed to mention that this is going to be a pedal-less build. 250-cell 18650 pack
i failed to mention that this is going to be a pedal-less build. 250-cell 18650 pack
