BMSBattery/ECityPower Experience

[mclark999]

Coming from an 11 post user!

Even with only 11 posts, personal experience is valid.

I may only have 100 posts here, but I'm an avid innovator, having completed my own solar collectors this fall, building a replica car in my garage and been working with all kinds of diy projects for over 40 years.

Like I said, I have had good experience with bmsbattery.com service and so have 2 of my friends.

 

[friendly1uk]

Have you checked the motor codes yet? My last two orders have contained the wrong bpm.

 

[MastaKebob]

Log of my experience with BMSBattery.com.

Lots of anecdotal experiences with BMS Battery (BMSB) on this forum, thought I'd add my experience for posterity. Intent is for this to help future first time ebike kit buyers on what to expect.

Bottom Line Up Front:

4 July 2015:
Placed an order for:
- 1x Q128H 36v800w 201rpm motor with wheel https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-conversion-kit/644-q128h-36v800w-rear-driving-e-bike-motor-wheel-conversion-kit.html
- 1x 48v11.6ah Panasonic bottle battery https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/680-48v116ah-bottle-09-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html
Order status created and flagged as "Payment Accepted"

5 July 2015:
Realized I forgot all of the accessories (torque arms, throttle, spoke wrench, hidden brake wire sensor) and emailed Jack (via the email address on the website) asking if I can add them to the previous order (didn't wanna pay shipping again).
Order status changed to "Testing"

6 July 2015:
Jack responded telling me to use the "extra shipping or other costs/parts" item to pay for the accessories.
Placed an order for 26 units of the $1 extra cost item (sum of the accessories was $26).
Sent an email to Jack telling him that I placed the order and that it should be added to my original order (using the order identifiers).

7 July 2015:
Received an email from BMSB telling me that my order has been updated. My account page reflects that my original order now has additional items and is $26 more

9 July 2015:
Order status changed to "QC"
Received an email from Sophia at BMSB asking me to confirm my order (her email included all the items I had ordered so far, including the late addition accessories). I sent confirmation, and she acknowledged (all same day).

11 July 2015:
Received an email from Sophia informing me that BMSB is out of the 36v q128h and would I be ok with a 48v q128h? She was kind enough to include the info that the 48v q128h is compatible with my battery. I responded asking when the 36v q128h would be back in stock. No response from Sophia

12 July 2015:
Sent Sophia an email asking if the 48v q128h comes in a faster wind (260rpm)

15 July 2015:
Received an email from Sophia telling me that the 48v q128h does come in a 260rpm wind. Then received an email saying that she made a mistake and that the 48v q128h only comes in the 201rpm wind. Am I OK with the 48v q128h 201rpm? I responded saying that I'm OK with the 48v q128h 201rpm motor (I just want my ebike!). Sophia sent an email thanking me and telling me that they'll ship me the 48v q128h.

16 July 2015:
Order status changed to "Package"

19 July 2015:
Order status changed to "Shipped" and I received a DHL tracking number

23 July 2015:
DHL website still reporting that they've only received the package information, not the actual package. Emailed BMSbattery checking to see if they've shipped it yet or not.

24 July 2015:
BMSBattery responded saying to check again, and DHL website indicates that the package was received from the shipper.

28 July 2015:
DHL attempted delivery but I wasn't home.

29 July 2015:
Picked it up from the DHL service center.

4 Aug 2015:
Opened the box and everything looks correct. I hooked up the bare minimum and the tire spun in concert with the throttle, so that's a good sign. I'll post another thread with the build process.

Thoughts on BMSB:
I'm pretty happy with the BMSB experience. About 3 weeks from order to arrival. I got what I paid for, and they were very good about communicating status updates/issues. Shipping was fast as well. Only negative: they list products they don't have in stock and can't/won't tell you when they'll get more.

 

[d8veh]

You better make sure that the battery is changed to 48v too, otherwise your top speed will be 14 mph.

 

[jsmay311]

I think I can hear some people snickering already. :wink:

Yes, I rolled the dice on ordering a battery pack + controller from BMSBattery and got burned. I tried one of their new "Case-08" frame-mounted battery packs, principally due to the enticingly low-profile shape of the case, but it turns out that the case's design is irredeemably crappy and essentially unusable. (I elaborated in a separate post, here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=72742)

So I'd like to return it for a refund, but BMSBattery is acting like George Costanza in that one Seinfeld episode where he avoids his girlfriend's phone calls with the idea that she can't break up with him if he won't talk to her. I sent 2 emails last week asking about the return/refund process, but got no reply. And then 4 subsequent times I've tried using their online customer service chat portal to contact them, but each time, like clockwork, as soon as I mention the words "return" or "refund", the rep mysteriously disconnects and the site suddenly has no one else available online to talk to. I'd be a lot more pissed if it wasn't so humorously transparent.

Has anyone else had better luck returning at item to BMSBattery for a refund? Do I need to initiate a dispute with PayPal just to get them to acknowledge me?

Thanks!

 

[amberwolf]

Your best bet, based on the various BMSBattery problem threads i've read over the years, is to simply go thru Paypal directly, and do not accept any resolution from BMSBattery separately, only whatever you can get Paypal to do.

As I understand it, it isn't uncommon for vendors (including this one) to say they'll do all sorts of things after you open a dispute via Paypal, but as soon as you then close the dispute with Paypal they ignore you again, and then you may not have the option to try again thru PP.

Or if you don't go directly thru PP then the vendor will drag things out until your time for PP options runs out and then you can't do it thru PP, and then the vendor ignores you again.


I'm sure this isn't universal by any means, but it's been reported here and elsewhere, not just with Chinese vendors like BMSBattery.

 

[d8veh]

It would be a lot simpler to sort out the problem with your battery first. We've had several of these types of threads over the years. Often, the problem is the lack of understanding how to use the product rather than the product itself. Tell us what the problem is, so we can help you get to a solution. It makes me very suspicious when people ask for help to get a refund before they've asked for help to sort out the problem.

To claim a refund, you need to send the battery back, which is not normally an option, otherwise you have to prove that the product is defective not not as described, but I doubt that it's either.

 

[Sunder]

It's funny, this morning I was talking about something similar to this to a colleague who has a masters in business, with a minor in consumer psychology. It's a round about point, but basically, we were talking about how companies actually get poor people to pay more for their products than rich people. Sound strange?

1. Utility companies either charge usurious interest rates for payment plans, or late fees for being 1 day overdue on your bill. Alternatively, to make it more palatable, they offer "on-time discounts" to those who pay on time.

2. If you can't afford $20k for a new car, you spend $2-3k a year repairing your old car instead. The price of "consumables" for a car is fairly normal (e.g price of genuine oil filter is usually $1-2 more than an OEM part), but ever tried to replace a non consumable part that's gone wrong? A friend got a quote to fix an airbag warning - it was more than the car was worth, and in fact, nearly 1/5th of the original purchase price of the car NEW.

3. Here's the relevant one - the cheapest items are built to have a high failure rate - You would expect that of cheap items right? But they're also marketed through low/no recourse channel. They don't put these batteries in Stealth Bombers for a reason - anyone who bought a $10k bike with a faulty battery will bring it back to the store and will have Consumer Affairs right behind them if they had to. But buy it off eBay, buy it off BMS Battery, and what do they care if their fault rate is 0.1% or 10%? They're not offering a return in any case, so you'll go to Green Bike Life and buy another one instead - same manufacturer, different sticker (Ever notice the EBK100 is identical to the Q100?)

Why am I saying all this? Because it's all just a game that BMS Battery play. The only way to win is to not play. You might be lucky and get a refund through Paypal, or BMS battery might ship you brick of the same weight and tell Paypal with a real tracking number they sent you a replacement.

My first bike was all eBay parts. The first part to go was the 10Ah "2C" battery, that got the bike going 4km/h for about 300m before hitting LVC. In reality, the batteries was 1.8Ah, and couldn't deliver much more than 1C at the LOWER capacity rating. These days, everything I buy is from EM3EV, eBikes.ca, or HobbyKing. They are more expensive than BMS Battery, but they're worth every cent.

TLR version? Buy cheap, buy twice.

 

[rsilvers]

Luna Cycle also. Their prices are good and they are in the U.S.

BTW, AliExpress has buyer protection.

 

[jsmay311]

It would be a lot simpler to sort out the problem with your battery first. We've had several of these types of threads over the years. Often, the problem is the lack of understanding how to use the product rather than the product itself. Tell us what the problem is, so we can help you get to a solution. It makes me very suspicious when people ask for help to get a refund before they've asked for help to sort out the problem.

The issue is that (in my personal/professional assessment as a mechanical engineer) the design of the plastic mounting bracket is deficient to the extent that I'm fairly certain that the mounting bracket will break after a relatively short period of use. And even if the bracket doesn't break, the swaying/vibrating pack will put a lot of bending stress into the mounting screws and bosses, so I'd be worried about them possibly failing too.

I've uploaded a video of me VERY lightly wiggling the pack with my fingers and showing how un-sturdy the mounting bracket is: https://youtu.be/IyRDKw3gNU0

I'll also post a separate thread describing my criticisms of the pack's design in more detail and update this post with a link. (Here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=72742)

The bottom line is that I had ordered this pack to put on my Dad's bike, and I'm not comfortable building him an ebike when I'm pretty sure it will literally fall apart on him while he's riding it. Plus the vendor states on their website that returns/refunds are allowed. (See below) So I don't see what the problem is.

(I've also ordered one of BMSBattery's "Bottle-09" battery packs, and I'm totally satisfied with the design of that pack. The mounting bracket is mostly plastic, but it has a metal (aluminum, I believe) structural insert/stiffener that is crucial to the design. And the underside of the bracket is not flat -- it has a rounded shape that contours to a rounded down tube. Hence, the pack mounts rigidly and securely to the frame.)

To claim a refund, you need to send the battery back, which is not normally an option[...]

Can you elaborate on this? Why would that not be an option?

Here's what BMSBattery's 'Terms and Conditions' webpage states regarding "unsatisfied products":

Reputation is our priority. If you have any problems with the received parcel, please email us first; You needn't to send unsatisfied products to us; We will give you the replacement after communication if needed. Our working-day is from Monday to Saturday. We will reply you on working-days. You replied email will be delay on Sunday. Please be patient to wait till Monday. If you insist to open a dispute on Paypal, you might need to send back the unsatisfied products to us first. When we received the returned products, we will refund you if you insist to get the payment back.

https://bmsbattery.com/content/3-terms-and-conditions-of-use

(I can't help but laugh at the parts about "reputation" and "communication". It's kinda hard to communicate when they completely and blatantly refuse to communicate with me!)

[...]otherwise you have to prove that the product is defective[...]

I suppose I could re-install it on the bike and just physically shake the frame until the part cracks (assuming my intuition is right). Or maybe I could make a 3D model of the whole pack on my work computer and run modal and stress analyses on it to virtually show that it will fail. :wink: But I think I'd rather just ship it back.

[...] [or] not as described

Problem there is that the product website included zero images or details about the mounting bracket (including the locations of the mounting holes, which turned out to be a separately problem), so there was no way for me to assess the design of the mounting bracket before ordering it. (Here's the link: https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/773-36v145ah-case-08-bottle-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html )

I guess I naively assumed that it would have been at least somewhat competently designed.

 

[chas58]

Wow, that sux. It is so hard to get good product info from BMS, unless someone here does a review. Thanks for sharing that video

 

[rsilvers]

With that video, was the mount installed all the way and as tight as it can go? If so, I agree, that is unusable. Unless it just does not fit your bike but works on others.

Can you elaborate on this? Why would that not be an option?

Because you would lose the return shipping costs, and probably even the original shipping costs. And they would total the cost of the battery.

Can you beef up the mount? I reinforced my battery mount with very heavy duty giant cable ties and made it rattle-free.

If you feel strongly about getting your money back, then you can contest the charge with your credit card company or PayPal. And check if your credit card gives you a free extended warranty or other purchase protection benefits. I know my Amex, which I use when I pay with Paypal, has some crazy benefits where they will refund my money *even if* the company does not honor a return. The damages are capped at a certain amount - I think about $300.

 

[rsilvers]

I placed an order with BMS battery. I then asked them to change something. They agreed. I then wanted to change something else, and felt it was best to start over and order from EM3EV. I asked BMSB to please cancel my order because I was afraid that my changes to it would cause an error. They did, and refunded my PayPal that night.

I will PM you some of their emails.

 

[jsmay311]

With that video, was the mount installed all the way and as tight as it can go? If so, I agree, that is unusable.

Yes. I had the screws tightened as tight as I felt I could without risking cracking the plastic underneath the screw head. So pretty tight.

Can you beef up the mount? I reinforced my battery mount with very heavy duty giant cable ties and made it rattle-free.

I thought about that. But since this install was essentially a gift for my Dad, I didn't want it to look like crap. Plus using tie straps or hose clamps would also mean that removing the pack from the frame (if that was ever necessary) would not be possible without having tools or extra straps on hand. But, idk, maybe it'll come to that.

And the fact that it only fits in the triangle "upside-down" is another sore point.

I also considered mounting it on a rear rack, since that could provide a flat surface that would be a more sturdy mount. But that would require me to replace the existing rack, which isn't flat on top and has a rail-type feature for affixing a special Topeak bag. But all he uses it for currently is to hold a U-lock. So that's another option if I can't return it.


It's really too bad, cuz it looked like this kit was gonna be pretty slick overall. It comes with a handlebar-mounted LCD screen that serves kinda like a Cycle Analyst, displaying speed, watts, distance, etc., and also allows you to select from 5 different (programmable(?)) speeds. And all of the handlebar connections (LCD display, throttle, brakes) are made with color-coded, water-tight connectors splitting off from a single wiring harness. And all of the motor-to-controller phase and sensor connections are done in one compact, round, water-tight 9-pin connector. (Probably not suited for higher power setups, but this kit's controller was limited to just 18A.)

I could even see myself ordering a different pack from BMSBattery -- the "Bottle-09" pack -- to replace this one, since I know that pack has a better mounting bracket design. Plus I have a laced motor that matches this pack (has the matching 9-pin connector) that would be much more cost-prohibitive to ship back. But after the way they're behaving, I'm not particularly inclined to give them any more business. Fool me once, shame on you... yada, yada, yada.

 

[oobagooba]

How much does it cost to ship a battery back to china? Might be good to know before opening a dispute

 

[ScooterMan101]

If the Batteries look good, you could do what I have done and have seen someone else do.

That is, as a backup , take some strong zip ties and zip tie the battery pack to the frame. you can even get inventive and make some saddles or buy some saddles to put on the underside of your downtube then carve just enough of the plastic of the saddle to make a valley that the zip tie will fit into then zip tie around the entire battery pack, X 2 , or even three times if you like.

I have made my own temporary battery pack and with two screw holes and screws into the bottle mounting threaded holes, along with some zip ties and it is very sturdy.

I have also seen someone just zip tie his battery pack to the under side of his down tube and he has had that for a long time without a problem.

If you can not find a saddle (' s ) I know of a place in Washington State that has some, they are an ultralight manufacturing business.

 

[LewTwo]

There are some low-temperature thermoplastics available such as InstaMorph
http://www.amazon.com/InstaMorph-Moldable-Plastic-12-oz/dp/B003QKLJKQ
This stuff is very easy to work with. All it requires is a little hot water.

My thought is you could use some of this material to form sort of a saddle around the bottle mount screws and between the frame and the mounting bracket. After the saddles cured (i.e. cooled) you could then tighten the screws down. Thus the mounting bracket would no longer be able to wiggle from side to side.

 

[d8veh]

Other batteries give the same problem as yours. You can solve it very easily by adding some support to the mount. I made my adaptor out of fibreglass. I wrapped the frame and battey mount in cling-film, slapped on some fibreglass and bolted the mount on. When the fibreglass had set, I shaped the outside profile to make it neat. The fibreglass took the shape of the frame and battery mount to make a perfect non-rocking fit. Now, I always add an extra riv-nut to the frame for extra security as well because I've seen bottle batteries rip out the clinch nuts in a crash. Another guy used Sugru for his adapter, which is a very quick and simple solution. He did it the same by wrapping the frame in cling-film and slapping on the Sugru, which stuck to the battery mount. Fibreglass is cheaper and does a really good job if you don't mind the mess.

 

[rsilvers]

If you ship by sea it may not cost that much, but could take many weeks.

 

[jsmay311]

Thanks for all of the suggestions.

I finally did file a dispute against BMSBattery with PayPal, and that was enough to prod them to finally communicate with me through email. And it turned out that there was a solution to my main problem of the battery pack not mounting securely to the frame. I was actually missing a part that came with the kit. (Although, in fairness, zero instructions plus zero customer support is a pretty good recipe for mix ups.)

I went into more detail about this in another post (here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=72742&p=1103915 ) if you're interested in the details. But the short of the story is that I probably won't be attempting to return the battery after all.

 

[nutnspecial]

And that's the biggest challenge in dealing with them imo (support.accountability/communication).
Good thread- I like the fiberglass fix! I also like:

The only way to win is to not play.

That's the approach I'm taking with them after 1 purchase that wasn't all that cheap OR reliable/easily serviceable.

Bmsb should be labeled as a low cost yet more potentially issue wrought avenue for newb.udget-ers.

Glad you got the issue resolved, let this be a lesson for future ebike cadets to come!

 

[giblet]

Sounds like they've been to the 'Hobbyking Academy for Customer Support'... comical!

Those guys though really are shocking. https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.hobbyking.com

Still if you always pay with PayPal or CC (in UK anyway) with these companies, you're safe.

 

[oobagooba]

Cool that you got them to help.

I've ordered 3 times this year, no major problems. I only spend as much as i can write off so no stress.

As someone here advised me "you will get your battery but something will be tatty."

It is a good place for cheap stuff if you can fix it yourself

 

[MastaKebob]

Finally got around to mounting this setup (q128h 48v800w 201rpm, 48v 11.6ah Panasonic bottle) yesterday.

Initial results:
WOT (no pedaling) on flat: ~16mph
WOT (no pedaling) up a good incline (ramp up to a pedestrian bridge): ~12mph
WOT (no pedaling) down moderate decline: just under 18mph

 

[d8veh]

The bare motors don't cost very much. If you want more speed, buy the 36v Q128 motor on its own when they have it in stock. When it comes, swap the cores, which is very easy on those motors because the side-plate is held on with 6 screws. With your motor wheel and bare motor in front of you, it's about 10 minutes work to change them over. When you're happy with your new motor, you should be able to sell your 48v one on Ebay for nearly what you paid for it.