Climbing groupset for Tongseng TSDZ8 750W

[hgg]

Hi guys,

So I am converting my Trek hardtail to an ebike with the Tongseng TSDZ8 mid drive motor
and I am looking to upgrade the groupset. The bike has 9 speed SLX groupset with an 11-34t
cassette. I want the bike to be able to climb comfortably 15 degrees slopes.

I have already ordered from bikestuff.eu the 38t chainring conversion but I also want to replace
the rear cassette with a 11-46t. I have narrowed down my choices to the following two:

1) Shimano CUES.

Rear Derailleur : RD-U4000-GS 1x9speed for 11-46t
Cassette: LG400-9 11-46t Cassette
Shifter: Rapidfire Plus U4000-9R Shifter


2 Microshift Advent.

Rear Deraileur : RD-M6195M Medium Cage Clutch
Cassette : CS-H093 H-SERIES 9 SPEED 11-46t, (hardened steel)
Shifter : SL-M9295 Trail Trigger Pro Shifter


I would appreciate any feedback on which one to choose.
The Advent rear deraileur looks nice on paper especially with the clutch and the off-center
rotating arm. The Cues setup is sold as a better option for ebikes but you never know
if you don't actually use the product.

Finally, are the above setups well suited for a 46t cassette?
Anyone with experience with the above setups?
Thanks.

 

[dgc]

I run the Sram X4 Long cage rear derailleur with a Sram X5 trigger shifter with a 9 speed 11 - 46t cassette along with a derailleur hanger extender. Do use the Shimano derailleurs on my other bikes but due to an alignment problem on my latest bike which is a 29er the X4 just worked straight out on the box, must say I also like the X5 shifter. I do normally use the 11 - 42t and the 11 - 46t cassettes as I do ride mainly on the flat but do go up / try to get up 45 degree banks or thro' the forest where there are short steep climbs but as before use hanger extenders.

 

[hgg]

I prefer to avoid using a hanger extender.
If I am correct the above two options do not need one.

 

[dgc]

On my 29er I had the fun and games with alignment with the Shimano derailleur, it was a long cage but hit the two lowest gears without using an extension, in the end just took the Shimano set off and fitted the Sram x4 X5 combo which work straight from the start, so left as is with the extender, the X4 cage looked close as well to the lowest gear. It could be imagination but some of the frame hangers do seem longer. My last three bikes are built on NOS Boardman frames and I have always seemed to need the extensions even when I have tried a "long" or "short" chain setup, I know there is proper way to set the chain length but have never bothered.

 

[scianiac]

I think they are both pretty decent, idk if the cues has a clutch but if it doesn't and the advent does go with that, clutches are nice to have. If I recall I have an advent on my TSDZ2 bike (or some related microshift model) and it's always served me well, still works great even after I absolutely mangled it wrapping it around the wheel, just like a bent mess and then straightened it out. The cause was 100% my fault, after a trail repair I shortened the chain too much an in a massive compression ran out of chain length and bad things ensued.

I also second that the hanger extensions are not worth it, they can work but are finicky because the jockey wheel ends up a million miles away on the smaller cogs so has very little control over the chain staying where it needs to. Probably depends on the exact derailleur but.

 

[dgc]

Do agree if it's not needed do not use it, but looked at my 29er, changed to the 46t sprocket and there only 10mm clearance between the sprocket and the derailleur cage so I am sure if I remove the extender I would wrap the cage around the cassette. Ho hum.

 

[Yanis]

2 Microshift Advent.

Rear Deraileur : RD-M6195M Medium Cage Clutch
Cassette : CS-H093 H-SERIES 9 SPEED 11-46t, (hardened steel)
Shifter : SL-M9295 Trail Trigger Pro Shifter

I have the Advent 9 speed and I'm very happy with it. Once I set it up, it didn't need anymore adjustment for the lifetime of the cassette. Crisp shifting everytime.
Also the Trail Trigger Pro shifter is great with the all-thumb control : with this I can rest my index finger on the brake lever all the time, which is good for quicker emergency braking.
Just keep in mind that you will need a good chainline in order to be able to use the largest sprocket (but that's true for all derailleurs).

 

[hgg]

I have the Advent 9 speed and I'm very happy with it. Once I set it up, it didn't need anymore adjustment for the lifetime of the cassette. Crisp shifting everytime.
Also the Trail Trigger Pro shifter is great with the all-thumb control : with this I can rest my index finger on the brake lever all the time, which is good for quicker emergency braking.
Just keep in mind that you will need a good chainline in order to be able to use the largest sprocket (but that's true for all derailleurs).

Have you used Shimano XT shifters?
If you have, how do you compare the Advent?

 

[Yanis]

Have you used Shimano XT shifters?

Nope, but I'm pretty sure the XT system is good too.. It's just that I like the thumb control for both up and down shifting, and not many brands do that.

 

[neptronix]

Ooh.. i would have downgraded to am 8 speed chain instead as it's stronger and a bit more efficient.

 

[Yanis]

Ooh.. i would have downgraded to am 8 speed chain instead as it's stronger and a bit more efficient.

The Microshift Acolyte 8 speed is a very nice option indeed.
It's funny that they market it as a kid's derailleur on their website.. it's actually very adapted to ebike too, especially with their 12-46 cassette.

 

[neptronix]

12 - 46 is pretty steep and a big range with less gears is so well suited to a mid drive.

 

[hgg]

12 - 46 is pretty steep and a big range with less gears is so well suited to a mid drive.

I have not used an ebike before.
Do you think that an 11-34t cassette with a 38t chainring would be enough for 15% climbs?

 

[dgc]

So a 15% is a road that for every 100 feet of horizontal distance, the road rises 15 feet vertically. I run a standard 42t chain ring on my TSDZ2 e-bike with a 9 speed 11t - 46t cassette, I ride up a short 10% incline in 6 th gear without any problem, also I ride up short 40 - 45 degree green banks in the park in 2 / 3rd gear assuming I do not fall off either sideways or off the back of the bike. I do have 36t chain wheel and spider but so far have not fitted it.

 

[dgc]

Just to amuse myself today I rode up a 30 degree plus green bank in 3th gear and the drive wasn't even bother by it, at a guess without checking that was on around a 30t sprocket.

 

[hgg]

So a 15% is a road that for every 100 feet of horizontal distance, the road rises 15 feet vertically. I run a standard 42t chain ring on my TSDZ2 e-bike with a 9 speed 11t - 46t cassette, I ride up a short 10% incline in 6 th gear without any problem, also I ride up short 40 - 45 degree green banks in the park in 2 / 3rd gear assuming I do not fall off either sideways or off the back of the bike. I do have 36t chain wheel and spider but so far have not fitted it.

Which rear derailleur are you using?

 

[dgc]

That's the Sram X4 long cage as in the previous photos.

 

[hgg]

I am leaning on the CUES groupset but not sure yet.
If anyone else has first hand experience to share on the CUES groupset that would be great.

 

[hgg]

Just bought the CUES groupset...
Lets hope it delivers.

 

[E-HP]

I have not used an ebike before.
Do you think that an 11-34t cassette with a 38t chainring would be enough for 15% climbs?

If you are pedaling, then there's no problem. I'm using the stock chain ring, and 15% is pretty easy with 26T in the rear. 30T in the rear is painfully slow, since I don't like pedaling like a hamster. However with slightly steeper graded (17%), when using throttle only and 30T in the rear, it will shutdown on overcurrent within a half block, so the motor definitely needs leg assist for the steep stuff.

The main issue I see with what you are proposing is access to all of your gears, due to the chain line. I could not access 8 gears, so not sure how you will access 9. I'm using 7 gears and spacers and barely access all 7 gears, and using the chain guide is the only way I could keep the chain from dropping off the chainring.

 

[hgg]

I will pedal, I don't want a motorbike... but I am a bit old now for climbing technical trails and I wouldn't mind some assistance.
What chainring are you using? The 44t?

"I could not access 8 gears, so not sure how you will access 9"

Indeed you have a point here. One reason I bought the 38t chainring is hoping to not need to use the included spacer in order to install the motor and maybe add a 1.5 or 2mm spacer on the cassette. Not sure how the chainline will end up.

 

[dgc]

Yep, chain line offset problems, but so far I can on my current e-bike I can use all 9 gears with the standard chain ring as the offset it not enough to throw the chain off when I am 1st gear. It's down to frame design, I can get away with a single small spacer on the motor but do end with about 1.5mm clearance between the drive casting and the frame. The standard chain ring is also very close to the rear swing arm as well.

 

[E-HP]

I will pedal, I don't want a motorbike... but I am a bit old now for climbing technical trails and I wouldn't mind some assistance.
What chainring are you using? The 44t?

"I could not access 8 gears, so not sure how you will access 9"

Indeed you have a point here. One reason I bought the 38t chainring is hoping to not need to use the included spacer in order to install the motor and maybe add a 1.5 or 2mm spacer on the cassette. Not sure how the chainline will end up.

Yup, this motor is only meant to be used while pedaling. I only use throttle for testing the motor, or if I'm super lazy on the ride home. It's actually really inefficient on throttle only compared to something like a hub motor when looking at the watts consumed at cruising speeds.
Does the stock bike have a single chainring that could access all 9 gears? I think chainline becomes a bigger issue when you start putting more than just leg power through the drive train.

 

[hgg]

Yup, this motor is only meant to be used while pedaling. I only use throttle for testing the motor, or if I'm super lazy on the ride home. It's actually really inefficient on throttle only compared to something like a hub motor when looking at the watts consumed at cruising speeds.
Does the stock bike have a single chainring that could access all 9 gears? I think chainline becomes a bigger issue when you start putting more than just leg power through the drive train.

Its an old Trek 3700.
Had a triple chainring, but I never had a problem even in the extreme positions of the chain.

 

[hgg]

Yep, chain line offset problems, but so far I can on my current e-bike I can use all 9 gears with the standard chain ring as the offset it not enough to throw the chain off when I am 1st gear. It's down to frame design, I can get away with a single small spacer on the motor but do end with about 1.5mm clearance between the drive casting and the frame. The standard chain ring is also very close to the rear swing arm as well.

"It's down to frame design"

Indeed. I will only know when I install everything.
The stock 44t has about 16mm of offset and the 38t from ebikestuff.eu has 11mm
I need to correct for 5mm. Not sure how thick is the BB spacer they provide, but
I hope I will not have to use it.