ZeroEm
1 MW
That is good. This one here uses 90ah
Converting Home's - RV's to DC
- Thread starter ZeroEm
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ZeroEm
1 MW
Don't know how old the Refrigerators is. Could be doing the math wrong. That is the one reason I don't like 12V the amps are so high. Was figuring 1500w startup on 12V for a second or two.
ZeroEm
1 MW
What is the draw back of Copper Aluminum Sheet. That is Solid Aluminum sheet with Anodized Copper finish. Sheets are pre-brushed before copper finish is applied to give it a distinctive and elegant look. I'm sure if this was worth anything people would be using it.
Constructed of lightweight aluminum with a copper finish
Will not rust when exposed to moisture
Easy to cut and form with standard tools
36 in. x 36 in. Copper Aluminum Sheet - $41.65
Constructed of lightweight aluminum with a copper finish
Will not rust when exposed to moisture
Easy to cut and form with standard tools
36 in. x 36 in. Copper Aluminum Sheet - $41.65
Hillhater
100 TW
So that is $1000 per yr for all your electricity ? (24kWh/day = 8760 kWh/yr = $0.114/kWh)
I an guessing that is a better rate than anything you can get on a regular “pay per kW” deal ?
If so, it is a good deal in the short term......but...
....That is a 25 yr deal, and you will likely have to commit and sign a contract to maintain that payment schedule for the full 25 yrs, ..possibly even if you move house or even die .!
So , yes, beware the detail in the agreement !
I dont know what cost are like in your area, but to me a 6.6kW system is available for $3k installed ($5k for a top range system). So for me a self funded system would make make more sense if you have a storage option available.
ZeroEm
1 MW
First asked about who would be liable in the future. They said it would be attached to the house and house service. If the house was sold it would be sold as part of the house and CPS service. This is a concrete pad house there is no moving it. You can not use the house with out CPS service. That is in a law passed 5yrs ago.
Anytime it sounds to good to be true. I'm on the look out for the catch. To start with $85 month for 20yrs for this equipment. They will make a killing on the interest or equipment mark up. Then any KW made that we do use CPS sells to their customers. Then we are one less of a burden on the stressed grid.
Did not figure the dollar cost. That changes with the coal, natural gas surcharges. Solar, wind and nuclear are stable cost. Don't forget the biggest variable is the weather then how wasteful we are.
It cost just to be connected with service that is on. Have not look what that is in the last 5 years. It was $50-$60/month with out using any gas or electric. Our lowest bill not sure is around $90, fall/spring, Winter we use more Nat Gas same electric as fall/spring, Summer or the hot months 6 months of the year it will be $130-$200/month.
With out looking at the real data it's seems like a good deal. I will end up with the house. Figure as the system degrades will add a panel every few years or if the climate heats up faster.
Have not seen the system they are planning, what has become normal is the micro-inverter on each panel. That will deliver dirty AC to the combiner box. That is why i'm looking at some small DC backup with it's own panel 3-600w should do it.
Anytime it sounds to good to be true. I'm on the look out for the catch. To start with $85 month for 20yrs for this equipment. They will make a killing on the interest or equipment mark up. Then any KW made that we do use CPS sells to their customers. Then we are one less of a burden on the stressed grid.
Did not figure the dollar cost. That changes with the coal, natural gas surcharges. Solar, wind and nuclear are stable cost. Don't forget the biggest variable is the weather then how wasteful we are.
It cost just to be connected with service that is on. Have not look what that is in the last 5 years. It was $50-$60/month with out using any gas or electric. Our lowest bill not sure is around $90, fall/spring, Winter we use more Nat Gas same electric as fall/spring, Summer or the hot months 6 months of the year it will be $130-$200/month.
With out looking at the real data it's seems like a good deal. I will end up with the house. Figure as the system degrades will add a panel every few years or if the climate heats up faster.
Have not seen the system they are planning, what has become normal is the micro-inverter on each panel. That will deliver dirty AC to the combiner box. That is why i'm looking at some small DC backup with it's own panel 3-600w should do it.
The USB-C spec was recently updated to 48v and 5 amps (240 watts.) It's considered extended power range, EPR. It's too early to see much of anything available in the market but this will be pretty big for small appliances, ebikes, etc. Should also be very easy to connect to 12-24vdc or typical AC power. Might be worth seeing what's available for what you're looking to use. Will be a much bigger market in 6 months or so if the chip market can get the new chips that support this new spec out.
Some are wiring their homes worth 48vdc. Anything over that I don't think I'd want in my house. As someone else said here, the newer inverters are very efficient. Copper prices are crazy, you'd likely need much thicker wires to power your appliances if you moved to low voltage dc.
Some are wiring their homes worth 48vdc. Anything over that I don't think I'd want in my house. As someone else said here, the newer inverters are very efficient. Copper prices are crazy, you'd likely need much thicker wires to power your appliances if you moved to low voltage dc.
ZeroEm
1 MW
This just occurred to me. Most EV's are just below 400VDC do they have anything to do with each other.There has been some work done for 400VDC for buildings and businesses. This came about because just about every computer, motor drive and TV out there first boosts to 370 volts DC then converts down to the voltages needed by the device.
Also Pika Energy had a 370 volt bus they called the REBus that was pretty ingenious; it connected solar to battery and to inverter and required much less copper to do it. You could also distribute the 370V to other devices. But since Generac purchased them, I haven't heard much about the REBus.
400 Vdc Power Distribution For Data Centers Emerges
Responding to increased interest in 400 V power distribution for data centers, Anderson Power Products (APP), Emerson Network Power, IBM, Universal Electric Corporation and Vicor...www.powerelectronics.com
Old thread, thinking on this for the past 15yrs. Would like a house mostly DC. Still grid connected. I'm excited over finding a 48V 12k btu minisplit for off grid living. Then today found a 15 cf up right 48V Refrigerator. Looks like 48V back up system. that I could run all the larger appliances on.
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JackFlorey
100 kW
Only very tangentially. 500V devices (MOSFETs, SiCFETs, IGBTS etc) are pretty common, so a 400V max battery voltage works well with them. Another DC standard is 370 volts.
48V works for that as long as any really heavy loads (heating, central A/C, water pumping in deep wells etc) are still 240VAC.
Agreed. I have a quarter of my house running directly off the 48v nominal DC, via various converters and such. Which is great. But take a dryer for example, it averages about 4000w. If I ran that off 48v, it would need 83 amps on the cable, just for that one load.
ZeroEm
1 MW
I could imagine, i'm using natural gas for the dryer and water heater.
During blackouts the gas keeps flowing.
ZeroEm
1 MW
The more I learn the more my mind changes. The latest is the cost vs benefit. Think I need more education before making my mind up on anything.
What's the best voltage for a battery bank. Some would say 24V. When you want a big bank and more power then a move to 48V seems what is needed.
Was thinking that DC appliances was the way to go. They cost triple as well as the copper to run them. One thing I know soft start AC is as important as running it on DC. Easer on the inverters.
Have three minisplits operating in house now (going to in stall two more). The central AC quit last summer and the heater part of it quit the winter before. The electric bill is going down not up anymore. They have increased the cost of KW the last two years, not this year, 2025. Will need a full year running the minisplits to see how well they do vs central AC/Heat. Looked over the last 3 years of utility bills and he highest month was 1800kw. This last month has had 10+ days of 100+ deg F but cool nights and only used around 640 KW. Summer is not here yet.
The point is wanting to get the watt usage down before commenting to how much solar I need. CPS here will not pay me for extra power produced. When the thread started was looking a 5-10KW of solar now i'm looking at 3-5KW to cover 80-90% of my energy needs. With a separate backup system that could help more.
Micro inverters: Have really been like them but starting to realize that for the cost of one inverter two more panels could be bought for the same price. Still more to learn.
What's the best voltage for a battery bank. Some would say 24V. When you want a big bank and more power then a move to 48V seems what is needed.
Was thinking that DC appliances was the way to go. They cost triple as well as the copper to run them. One thing I know soft start AC is as important as running it on DC. Easer on the inverters.
Have three minisplits operating in house now (going to in stall two more). The central AC quit last summer and the heater part of it quit the winter before. The electric bill is going down not up anymore. They have increased the cost of KW the last two years, not this year, 2025. Will need a full year running the minisplits to see how well they do vs central AC/Heat. Looked over the last 3 years of utility bills and he highest month was 1800kw. This last month has had 10+ days of 100+ deg F but cool nights and only used around 640 KW. Summer is not here yet.
The point is wanting to get the watt usage down before commenting to how much solar I need. CPS here will not pay me for extra power produced. When the thread started was looking a 5-10KW of solar now i'm looking at 3-5KW to cover 80-90% of my energy needs. With a separate backup system that could help more.
Micro inverters: Have really been like them but starting to realize that for the cost of one inverter two more panels could be bought for the same price. Still more to learn.
offGridDownUnder
10 kW
Natch. That's what engineering is all about.
A similar approach is to only 'condition' a smaller volume - such as a sleeping room, or even just a bed. Poster beds had curtains to provide a micro-climate, and people actually used to sleep in cabinets (big ones, but 'big' just meant the size of a sleeper in a rail car).
Are you considering insulation as a tool/cost? Jerry Wigatow of Wiggy's has insulated window covers as one of his offerings, and I would adapt his rectangular sleeping bags as insulation as well - the zippers would provide a mounting point. In a similar way, some of the military poncho systems use snaps on the edges and there are liners to match. Wilderness Innovation used to make very good offerings in this space, although they seem to be going through some changes now and I don't know if they are reliable any more.
I would think of a 'drying cabinet' instead of clothes dryer. A cabinet with room and racks to hang, a small fan, and maybe a small source of heat - trading time/volume/convenience for less power. You might have a dual purpose cabinet or poster bed to handle both purposes. It's a small space - you could cool it at night.
A tent you can stand in could provide an office that you could cool during the day.
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ZeroEm
1 MW
Good ideas. Have been using a mix of technology and basics. When AC became common no worried about inefficiently.
This house was build in the 1960's no AC or insulation two windows to a room. Then AC window units were used with high bills. At some point 20-30yrs ago a central AC was installed with ducts in the Attic. Mother tells of $500 electric bills and cost per KW cheaper than now. The city helped and blew in insulation in all the walls and they fitted double pane windows in most of the windows.
Moved in with my mother late 2017. Replaced all the lights with led lights, double electric ovens replaced with a digital natural gas/electric oven. Stove is gas but I have copd so have a induction hotplate to cook on. (don't really cook anymore) Painted the patio roof with a white latex sealant to drop tempter and it did. It's on the list to do the roof, drops about 20 deg F.
The old 3 ton AC was kept running, every two years a tech needed called. Coil plugging up and ducts dirty and leaking, new central heat pump was quoted at $10K + $5k to redo ducts.
Went with BOSCH 3/4 ton mini splits. have three want to install two more for 3 3/4. It is a lot more cost in hardware. It will be 30% more efficient. The bigger the AC units are less efficient. If one goes out it won't bother much fix it when convent. Have one in my room started making noise last year, bought a replacement but the old one keeps cooling. Think it is cheaper to just replace it. Have a new one ready to swap out. Soon they will have the new coolant and compressors more efficient. Have a 1 ton window unit with the new coolant and compressors and it uses (7.8a 120V) just above what the older mini splits use (3.6a 220V).
that's how i used to do things before the housefire. afterward the house was rebuilt wiht sufficient insulation (doulbepane windows, interior wallboard foamboard, etc) that less than the same energy would keep the entire (small, 11x11-ish) room cool.
Since it's a desert here, rarely going above 20% humidity, I just hang eveyrtrhing on the line outside. If it's raining I'll hang it up inside, and if i absolutely have to use the dryer because of weather conditions and work timing, I can.
offGridDownUnder
10 kW
Reduce
Reuse
Recycle
I have not yet done the calculations or the experiments, but one concept I am keeping in mind with my trike is that it can be my main power source - just as people use their EV to power their house temporarily or long term. Without having reduced this to practice yet I keep it in mind.
I have 2x gleaf 160W solar panels which together match the footprint of the trike (~ 2m x 80cm), and 1x Sunpower 170W flexible panel. If I had moved more quickly to buy the second Sunpower panel I might not have bought the gleaf panels, but it may work out. I'm thinking of a frame to mount the 2 gleaf panels but consider I might use it as a roof for the trike, or as a roof for a trailer I can sleep in, with the Sunpower as a sunshade/panel for the trike.
Another thought about this was why I started a thread a bit ago about the requirements for a solar-only powered ebike. The consensus there was for a particularly long-lived chemistry small Li battery to provide a regen/hill "flywheel". I haven't acted on that yet.
I do know now that I don't need a heater for my body - it is already a good heater, and the insulation I have found retains that nicely - although there are more 'livability' experiments to be done. Likewise I am satisfied about personal lighting and computer/phone power.
I viewed a Youtube video showing piezo-electric heating elements banded to a steel can inside a larger can with a sand layer between used to drive a desalination still. I haven't done the power calculations yet, but I have purchased the heating elements to match my battery and solar panels. That's an upcoming experiment. If feasible, that also covers some cooking approaches.
I have already demonstrated a water still using a twig stove, but haven't run it long enough to have an idea of volume/time. Desalination capability permits long stays by the ocean as well as drinkable water anywhere else there is water.
I just moved across country after I retired, and re-assembling the trike is next. The new home is very hilly, and I'll do some experiments about whether the gearing is sufficiently low and what to do about that. Before I work out the solar panel mounts and more designs about a trailer or whatever I can also start assembling the panels and the charging kit I bought to get the measure of the power I can produce.
I have spent some time considering buying a van to live in, both to save $$ and also travel about, but won't act on that soon. I don't like the idea of using fossil fuels either. But I did come across some very compact air-conditioners that run on DC for campers. I haven't done the calculations on that either, but it does suggest the idea of a solar powered air-con. Australia is unlikely to become cooler soon, and older bodies do not do well in heat - particularly for sleeping. Another interesting avenue to consider.
Reuse
Recycle
I have not yet done the calculations or the experiments, but one concept I am keeping in mind with my trike is that it can be my main power source - just as people use their EV to power their house temporarily or long term. Without having reduced this to practice yet I keep it in mind.
I have 2x gleaf 160W solar panels which together match the footprint of the trike (~ 2m x 80cm), and 1x Sunpower 170W flexible panel. If I had moved more quickly to buy the second Sunpower panel I might not have bought the gleaf panels, but it may work out. I'm thinking of a frame to mount the 2 gleaf panels but consider I might use it as a roof for the trike, or as a roof for a trailer I can sleep in, with the Sunpower as a sunshade/panel for the trike.
Another thought about this was why I started a thread a bit ago about the requirements for a solar-only powered ebike. The consensus there was for a particularly long-lived chemistry small Li battery to provide a regen/hill "flywheel". I haven't acted on that yet.
I do know now that I don't need a heater for my body - it is already a good heater, and the insulation I have found retains that nicely - although there are more 'livability' experiments to be done. Likewise I am satisfied about personal lighting and computer/phone power.
I viewed a Youtube video showing piezo-electric heating elements banded to a steel can inside a larger can with a sand layer between used to drive a desalination still. I haven't done the power calculations yet, but I have purchased the heating elements to match my battery and solar panels. That's an upcoming experiment. If feasible, that also covers some cooking approaches.
I have already demonstrated a water still using a twig stove, but haven't run it long enough to have an idea of volume/time. Desalination capability permits long stays by the ocean as well as drinkable water anywhere else there is water.
I just moved across country after I retired, and re-assembling the trike is next. The new home is very hilly, and I'll do some experiments about whether the gearing is sufficiently low and what to do about that. Before I work out the solar panel mounts and more designs about a trailer or whatever I can also start assembling the panels and the charging kit I bought to get the measure of the power I can produce.
I have spent some time considering buying a van to live in, both to save $$ and also travel about, but won't act on that soon. I don't like the idea of using fossil fuels either. But I did come across some very compact air-conditioners that run on DC for campers. I haven't done the calculations on that either, but it does suggest the idea of a solar powered air-con. Australia is unlikely to become cooler soon, and older bodies do not do well in heat - particularly for sleeping. Another interesting avenue to consider.
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ZeroEm
1 MW
Found a mini split 12000 btu that ran on 48V. The cost was $500 more than AC.
ZeroEm
1 MW
Have a question or concern. Purchased a 12V 2000w inverter years ago. Now i'm not sure to use it. It was cheap so square wave. Even my lights have electronics in them now. Read were modified wave would be ok or best sine wave. Do you think the old square wave would run the new led lights?
Run them? Probably. How well they wokr and/or how hard it is on them depends on their design. If they have pelnty of inductance and capacitance on the input side of their PSU for the load they create, it'll load down the squarewave into something like a sinewave, at the cost of heating up those parts a bit more than usual for the extra current during the sharp transitions.
ZeroEm
1 MW
Don't have any hands on experience using this equipment. Bought three solar panels 15yrs ago. 12V 15w and a 2000w inverter. Used the panels to charge my trike a few years ago. Have never plugged/hooked up the inverter.
Found some new information. Always looking for energy efferent devices. Have been using BOSCH (410 coolant) mini splits. Seer rating is like 26 on the 9000btu units (840w/hr).
Was looking at Mitsubishi mini-split heat pumps yesterday. The old ones never impressed me Seer rating around 20. They have a new line out. I'm sure it's the new coolant and compressors. The Seer rating on the 9000 units is up to 30. The draw back is they are $2200. I have been paying $1200 for the BOSCH 9000. This many not seem much for most but its like 550w/hr for 3/4 ton AC.
Found some new information. Always looking for energy efferent devices. Have been using BOSCH (410 coolant) mini splits. Seer rating is like 26 on the 9000btu units (840w/hr).
Was looking at Mitsubishi mini-split heat pumps yesterday. The old ones never impressed me Seer rating around 20. They have a new line out. I'm sure it's the new coolant and compressors. The Seer rating on the 9000 units is up to 30. The draw back is they are $2200. I have been paying $1200 for the BOSCH 9000. This many not seem much for most but its like 550w/hr for 3/4 ton AC.
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