Currie Kick Scooter conversion

[ElectricGod]

Last night I made controller setting changes to account for things I realized needed tweaking from the last ride. I turned up phase current a good bit and set battery current to 50 amps. I had also had some speed limiting turned on previously. I'm still set at zero field weakening. I drive a 2015 Golf GTI. It's not the fastest car on the road, but it's plenty quick to beat out most cars despite being completely stock. I've gotten used to how it accelerates and pulls away from other cars. It's just loads of fun to drive. Anyway, now that the PowerVelocity 12 fet controller has been retuned, it pulls just like my car does. I was standing on the front of the deck at first, but later just leaned into the front of the scooter. It will pick up the front wheel pretty easily. The "worst" part is moving along at 20 miles an hour and cranking the throttle. If you are leaning back just a little the front end is coming off the ground. I was quite pleased with the performance. I'm going to probably upgrade the brakes to hydraulics, but the mechanical brakes are plenty strong enough.

This is the current controller settings. The controller and motor run a bit warmer than before, but still not hot. I accidentally hit the regen switch when I took this picture, but regen is currently set at 72 out of 200 or about 35%.

The scooter from the outer edges of the tires is 50 inches long. The tires are 13 inches tall. This thing is pretty small and weighs 75 pounds. I was guessing before, but I just put it on a scale to be sure.

This is the cool picture. I started at 65 volts and under load got down to 59 volts and recovered to 60.6 volts after 12.2 miles of riding. My average speed was 25 mph with lots of strong acceleration along the way. Notice the upper right number on the speedo...that was my max speed before I chickened out and backed off a little...39 mph. It felt really fast! That was on level ground. I don't have field weakening turned on at all right now and I'm not sure I want to. It's already going to exceed 40 mph without it. I'm pretty happy with this level of performance. The packs are down to 3 volts per cell at 48 volts. I'm guessing that I have another 12 miles in this charge at least.

 

[ElectricGod]

Been talking to a friend on ES. He rides on 8" rims and has done nearly 50 on it. I might have to grow a pair and turn on feild weakening.

 

[ElectricGod]

I'm a bit paranoid about this bolt. It holds the handlebar assembly onto the steering tube. There is no other mechanism that keeps 24" of leverage under control. I'm not worried about the steering tube...just this 8mm bolt. It was designed with a 500 watt MAX motor in mind and I'm running way over that now. At the watt meter, I'm seeing 3600 watts and I bet if I set the battery amps higher in the controller that could go up too. Anyway the leverage on that bolt is pretty significant. I'm replacing it with a 10mm grade 12 bolt.

 

[ElectricGod]

With the cast wheels, I can convert to tubeless tires. I've purchased a set of valve stems for mounting on tubeless wheels. They will be here soon. I can glue the back tire to to rim in hopes of getting sufficient grip between the tire bead and the rim so that the tire doesn't slowly migrate and rip off the valve stem. That would let me stick with tubes. The other option is to just not worry about it at all and go tubeless. This makes my wheels a little lighter and they will hopefully be better balanced as well. Approaching 40mph, I noticed that I was getting a fair amount of vibration and wobble in the wheels. Hopefully that will be fixed with better balanced wheels once I eliminate the tubes. I think I'll take my wheels to a bike shop nearby and see if they can balance them as well.

 

[Ianhill]

I'm a bit paranoid about this bolt. It holds the handlebar assembly onto the steering tube. There is no other mechanism that keeps 24" of leverage under control. I'm not worried about the steering tube...just this 8mm bolt. It was designed with a 500 watt MAX motor in mind and I'm running way over that now. At the watt meter, I'm seeing 3600 watts and I bet if I set the battery amps higher in the controller that could go up too. Anyway the leverage on that bolt is pretty significant. I'm replacing it with a 10mm grade 12 bolt.

I'd say get that bolt out of there, with grade 12 the thread it sits in will be much less grade so make sure it has a lot of reciving threads to grip on to.
I snapped a razor e300 handlebars, same fixing at 30mph luckily i was on an open flat area they fold in half and the stem stayed in the frame so I still had a level on control to stop that was 1 of my cat lives down the drain.

 

[ElectricGod]

I'm a bit paranoid about this bolt. It holds the handlebar assembly onto the steering tube. There is no other mechanism that keeps 24" of leverage under control. I'm not worried about the steering tube...just this 8mm bolt. It was designed with a 500 watt MAX motor in mind and I'm running way over that now. At the watt meter, I'm seeing 3600 watts and I bet if I set the battery amps higher in the controller that could go up too. Anyway the leverage on that bolt is pretty significant. I'm replacing it with a 10mm grade 12 bolt.

I'd say get that bolt out of there, with grade 12 the thread it sits in will be much less grade so make sure it has a lot of reciving threads to grip on to.
I snapped a razor e300 handlebars, same fixing at 30mph luckily i was on an open flat area they fold in half and the stem stayed in the frame so I still had a level on control to stop that was 1 of my cat lives down the drain.

There's about 1/4" of metal in the bottom of the wedge shaped component for threads. I'll likely jb weld a nut underneath the wedge. I'm kind of partial to my 9 kitty lives and not spending them stupidly.

 

[ElectricGod]

I've been told that the PV controller isn't FOC at all and that it uses a form of phase/timing advancing to get field weakening. I still haven't run with field weakening since this EV was completed. That will happen this weekend. I will also mess with phase amps a bit too. There is no compelling reason to use 192 phase amps and I seriously doubt the motor can use that either. I'll be turning that down until I feel a loss in motor performance.

I have an ASI 12 fet controller. It is a true FOC controller and runs the AOT290 mosfets like the 12 fet PV controller has. This will be a good controller A vs controller B comparison. Or more specifically FOC vs straight up sinusoidal. Both controllers will run the exact same motor on the exact same EV. The only differences will be in the controller that is running at the moment. I've been told that FOC is way better than just sinusoidal control. I can't get closer to a 1:1 comparison than this. Two controllers on the same EV. I will also try to set as many settings in the controllers to the same values. Whatever I set in the PV controller the ASI will get the same setting if applicable. I will try to make the ASI and PV settings as similar as possible. Then I will go for a 12 mile ride, do multiple speed runs and check the controller and motor temps multiple times to see if heating is less or more than the PV controller. I'll be watching battery amps used too. I'm very curious to see if I'm blown away by the "FOC goodness" or not. I will report my results here and also in my PV and ASI review threads. This will be an attempt to evaluate FOC vs no FOC and if the cost is compelling or not.

ASI Accelerated Systems controllers BAC2000 review: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=87645
PowerVelocity controller review: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=90536

I know the ASI is good for 90,000 eRPM and the PV for 50,000 eRPM. This will allow for more field weakening on the ASI and therefore a higher top speed. For these tests, I will set both controllers to whatever gets me the maximum motor RPM on the PV controller to try and keep everything as equal as possible so that FOC is the only factor that is making any difference.

 

[ElectricGod]

After much fiddling, I finally got the BAC2000 to run sensored. Setting up the basic stuff like motor poles and battery voltage was quick and painless. I talked to Martin at ASI and got some help to get things going. However in the end it was doing the opposite of what he said that got the motor running. Martin claimed that outrunners are "low resistance low inductance motors" and that to get the controller to properly detect the halls that you need to run the motor at lower RPM. I had it set to 5000 RPM or so and that wouldn't work. He suggested 2500 RPM. That caused the motor to stutter and NOT run. I finally upped that to 2600 and the motor ran again. However, it didn't detect the halls. I still got hall failures as soon as I programmed in the new hall position numbers and then hit the throttle. This motor has 2 sets of halls in it. The set I added myself for whatever reason it wont read all 3 halls. I just tested both sets of halls on my motor and hall tester and sure enough one of the halls is not working.

PV controllers are supposed to run with reduced performance if a hall fails, but that's not the case that I can tell. I'll dig into the failed hall later. I wonder what happened to it. Hopefully a wire came loose in the hall connector and I don't have to take the motor apart to get at a bad hall. That would be a royal pain! The motor runs on the factory halls so I guess I should count myself lucky I have 2 sets of halls in the motor. Now that the motor is running, I need to set the BAC2000 similar to the PV 12 fet and then secure it to the scooter so it stays put. I can then go for a test ride. Geez! What a giant royal pain of a set up process! I've easily spent 6 hours getting the controller to work with this motor.

This will be my first chance to try out a torque throttle. Essentially the motor always tries to spin at full RPM, it's just the phase current that changes. Less phase current means less torque and so the motor can't push as hard and you go slower. IE: Variable torque. We'll see...I've only ever had speed throttles. Motor speed tracks with throttle position, but torque is always at maximum. IE: Variable speed.

 

[ElectricGod]

minor upgrade...

The bolt that holds the handlebars onto the steering tube was 8mm. I've been paranoid about it breaking off with all the extra power and leverage on it. I got some grade 12.1 bolts today and replaced that bolt. The retainer wedge is about 1/2" thick at the bottom where the threads are. That was good enough to not need more thread reenforcement.

 

[ElectricGod]

The ASI controller is set up as much as I can get it to be like the PV 12 fet controller. If the weather isn't crappy tomorrow, I'll take it out for a ride and see if FOC is worth it or not.

 

[ElectricGod]

I've been meaning to do this for a couple of weeks now.

Valve stems arrived today so it was time.

The new wheels are all cast so I can use them to go tubeless. I took my wheels off, removed the tires and tubes and attempted to inflate the tires. If I took out the schrader valve I was able to push air into the tire fast enough to get it to close up the rim and hold air. But as soon as took the fill hose away, all the air would rush back out and then I would lose the seal. With the schrader valve in place I couldn't put air into the tire fast enough to get the tire inflated. I went back and forth a few times essentially getting frustrated. I have a can of super 77 spray adhesive. The inside of the rims got sprayed with it. I then was able to fill the tires with the schrader valve removed and get a seal on the bead that stuck, thanks to the spray glue. I was then able to install the schrader valves again and fill up the tires like normal. I lost about 1/2 pound in tubes, but the bigger deal is that wheels are much better balanced now. The back wheel was probably the worst of the two. Taking out the tube took away nearly all of the imbalance issues.

 

[Ianhill]

Glad I helped point you in the right direction, let us know how the foc run goes, top work

 

[ElectricGod]

Glad I helped point you in the right direction, let us know how the foc run goes, top work

The front wheel leaks. Don't know what that's about yet.

 

[ElectricGod]

The shrader valve was leaking. I replaced it and I'll let it all sit overnight. If it's good in the morning, I'm going for a ride!

 

[ElectricGod]

Glad I helped point you in the right direction, let us know how the foc run goes, top work

Thanks...getting the bead to stay sealed up so I could fill with the shrader valves in place was a giant pain. I finally sprayed contact glue onto the rim that stuck the bead to the rim. That of course worked immediately. I should have done that right when I removed the tubes! Instead I spent 2 hours cussing at the tires trying to get them to stay sealed up. LOL!

Test ride going tubeless and on the BAC2000 should happen tomorrow! I won't be using ASI in the future, those people are virtually impossible to work with! I have no idea what their deal is. Anwyay...ranting again. I said all I need to in my BAC2000 thread.

 

[ElectricGod]

I guess winter is officially here. It's snowing outside and the weather has been bad all weekend.

 

[ElectricGod]

It's windy outside. Gusts of 40+. At least it's not raining or snowing. I got to take out the Currie on the ASI today. It's set up with no field weakening and current set like on the PV 12 fet controller. I haven't used the ASI controller on an actual EV before, just for bench testing. I've never tried a torque throttle before. Frankly, I couldn't tell it was dramatically different from a speed throttle. The biggest difference I noticed was that low throttle was less harsh than the speed throttle. Since torque is the defining factor, at low throttle, the motor is a bit weak and at more throttle, it gets stronger. This makes for a gentle start. A speed throttle is full torque all the time so it makes for a harsher start up from a dead stop.

So then, onto the actual test ride. The motor sounded virtually identical to the straight sinusoidal controller. I couldn't tell any sort of acceleration difference. The only difference I could detect from riding was that my top speed was a bit higher. 42 on the PV controller and 43 on the ASI controller. Since it has a higher eRPM than the PV controller it will definitely run the C80100 at up to 82 volts, while the PV controller limited at 50,000 eRPM won't run it at that voltage. In either case the motor pulled strong all the way to full speed. After riding around a little while, I then started having a power drop off. I put my hand on the bottom of the controller and it was quite warm which was surprising since it's 60F outside and the PV controller gets to 85F after several miles of hard riding. I hadn't ridden 1/2 mile continuous. After the controller cooled down, I had full power again.

I then was developing a new problem. There was this ticking sound coming from the back end. I stopped, looked over the back end, couldn't see anything, rolled the back wheel around a little. Everything was smooth so I got back on and road some more. The ticking sound got more and more pronounced and then the back wheel got bumpy. I stopped and checked over the back wheel again and found this. Needless to say, the ride was then over and I essentially drug the scooter home a couple of blocks.

My guess is that the tire was over pressure, but it says right on the side 55psi and I was running at 55psi. I have a couple more tires of the same size and they too say they are made by Hua Jian, but they are rated to 40psi and the labeling on the side of the tire is different. Is one set fake?

 

[ElectricGod]

New tire is in place and I still have a spare tire. I'll do some test rides tomorrow. The weird thing is one side of the tires reads 30-40psi and the other reads 60psi. So...which is it? I've lowered the front tire to 40psi and the new back tire is 40psi. Hopefully that's the last of the bulged tires!

The back wheel was out of balance without the tire in place. I added a 7 gram weight inside the rim and glued down to the center of the rim. The valve stem I added was making the wheel off balance. I have several of these valve stems so I pulled out my mini scale and weighed one...7 grams. Adding a 7 gram weight opposite of the valve stem balanced it back out.

 

[riverie]

Great build and complex mods as usual EG. I envy your skills!

 

[LockH]

Great build and complex mods as usual EG. I envy your skills!

HAHA! Are you NOT "reading" this thread? From the first post " picked up this little ride today for $80 on craigslist. The SLA batteries were dead and the motor controller was burnt ouy"...

Moral of story... You get watt you paid for... :lol:

 

[riverie]

Well that's true. But the fun part is to hassle and modding it up to your expectations. And I don't think getting portable electric scooter that can goes up to 40mph+ is readily available out there.

 

[ElectricGod]

Great build and complex mods as usual EG. I envy your skills!

HAHA! Are you NOT "reading" this thread? From the first post " picked up this little ride today for $80 on craigslist. The SLA batteries were dead and the motor controller was burnt ouy"...

Moral of story... You get watt you paid for... :lol:

When I bought it, they told me it didn't work. I didn't care. I saw the potential in the frame and what I could do with it. The fact that it was dead was irrelevant to me. I knew I was going to mod it extensively. If I wanted something that was already working, then I would have paid lots more for it and still had an inferior machine to my scooter. BTW 40mph is not really what it's capable of. With my latest test runs with no field weakening, I was getting 43mph.

riverie...
This isn't an impossibility for you to do. It's a matter of having the tools needed to make the parts or knowing people that can make them for you. Even then most of the parts are just stuff premade by others.

 

[Ianhill]

I buy an old girl in need of help so I can learn and fix at the same time it just would suck ass to go buy a new one that's powerful enough or swap a battery and say I made this.
I paid £90 for my brushless scooter in a mess and it's been the best buy of my life learnt loads from it and give me the courage to push a little harder.
Keep up the good work 43mph on a scooter is fast a's stink and anyone that disagrees had never been that speed on one.

Damn that tyre got a little lump on it did you notice haha.

 

[Ianhill]

Moral of story... You get watt you paid for... :lol:

That's true if you buy a new product with no intention of upgrading but if your bringing an old girl back too life the cost is not just the finished item it's also an experience I've never made money from my builds and that's not the point to me ive donenit to enjoy myself and learn while making new friends along the way.

Ita not a bug I don't bum electric I enjoy power.

 

[ElectricGod]

I buy an old girl in need of help so I can learn and fix at the same time it just would suck ass to go buy a new one that's powerful enough or swap a battery and say I made this.
I paid £90 for my brushless scooter in a mess and it's been the best buy of my life learnt loads from it and give me the courage to push a little harder.
Keep up the good work 43mph on a scooter is fast a's stink and anyone that disagrees had never been that speed on one.

Damn that tyre got a little lump on it did you notice haha.

The lump in the tire wasn't impacting ride feel at first, just making a tick tick tick sound as it grazed the chain. My chain is really close to the right side of the tire...misses by about 1/8". Since the bulge was so slight at first, I totally missed it. I decided that something was going wrong and headed home. I got about 1/4 mile before the bulge suddenly expanded and then yeah the ride was seriously compromised. The bulge was impacting the chain severely and also hitting the box around the back wheel. And of course, the scooter was bumping up and down a lot too. I went from just the ticking sound to all of a sudden major back wheel problems. That's when I had no choice but to stop and drag it home the 3 blocks I still had to go.