Mongo
1 kW
11-speed is fine - can't find the spec anywhere though. I used a Wipperman Connex 11SE chain.
CYC PHOTON
- Thread starter pxl666
- Start date
73mm BB is correct on the Marlin. According to Trek, the Chainline is 49mm stock so that doesn't seem too bad. Wouldn't be a big deal if I can't use the 1st or 2nd granny gears as I won't be climbing crazy hills and will probably not use them regardless.
Stop worrying, don't overthink this.
I have considerable experience with a bike very similar to that Marlin (technically more equivalent to the Roscoe) and there are zero issues with the MT200s provided:
- Fit a 203 rotor on the front, and move the old front rotor to the rear
- Select the right kinds of pads for your riding
- Keep the system properly bled and completely filled (love Shimano for using mineral oil, makes this very easy).
- Adjust the lever reach (which really is the only shortcoming for this system - adjustments) to suit your riding.
The problem is never braking power, it is always traction.
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Chainline is nothing to do with the cassette, and the Photon will have perfect chainline on the Marlin out of the box.
CYC got this part of their product exactly right, every one else has compromised there. Chainline isn't a discussion that even needs to be had - it is only because of Bafang and Tongshen that we even think about this.
The Photon with 34T is definitely the way to go, just check that the extra diameter of a 34T will fit in the same plane the 30T is already - the Photon ring will be in the exact same plane. You just need to be careful where the stays kick out by the chainring, you'll only need 1mm of clearance
12 speed is fine for ebikes, waste of time changing it out, just get on and use it. I have 1230 Eagle and it is very smooth and shifts fine even under light to moderate power. You may be giving up the excellent feel with a change to other systems; plus, the smallest 3 cogs are replaceable separately (and with a 34T you WILL wear these faster) and you can fit e-bike rated SRAM chains, too.
You will find your top speed limited with 34/11, my max is 60+ kph, but 45 is around the max while pedalling at quite high cadence.
They do. The only difference between 10, 11 and 12 speed chains as far as the chainring is concerned is the plates are thinner, the internal dimensions are the same.
CYC also supports Shimano HG chains, which is actually something more important to consider.
52v x 30A = ~1500W
There is no point in even having a 40A BMS - unless you really want to use 2000W peak, which your chainset and spokes are not going to enjoy. Plus that battery pack won't be actually rated for 40A discharge continuous - LG's figures are 9.3A cont.
I went with lower discharge Samsung cells (max 30A, which is way more than I need) to get the larger Wh capacity pack with about an extra 25% distance.
No way is that battery going to fit in the triangle, and won't be great on the top tube with that curve, either.
Thanks for the input. You're probably right but the 160mm rotors are undersized for sure. 203mm was the plan for the front but I'm thinking 180mm for the rear at minimum...
My chain is a SRAM SX Eagle...
Curious for some of you running similar gearing, how many amps are you pulling peak and during cruising? I was under the impression that it would peak well over 40 amps. Hell, I have a kids ride on car with a 180w motor and with a VESC controller it pushes 5kW with an 8s or 16s battery and it pulls 130amps peak at take off and cruises around 20-30 amps depending on speed.
LG rates each cell at 9.3A continuous and the battery is configured in 14S4P, so that would be 37.2 amps continuous safely with that battery. BMS should be sized up so it's not being stressed and at its limit with continuous draw so I see no problem with a 40a BMS in that case.
Battery fitment is gonna be a pain for me, I will probably have to make a custom battery. I'm not finding much at all that will fit in that space and I really don't wanna add a rack on the rear.
160 is really cheaping out by Trek. That's terrible.
Mine was SX chain, upgraded when I did the conversion - and also moved to wax. I only mentioned HG chain compatibility because it may be relevant for moving to other platforms - the Photon costs a lot more than many bikes.
Here's my conversion. Really happy with it, there is little I would change.
CYC PHOTON
How much battery did you fit in that little pouch? I'm considering making my own out of LiPo pouches (yes, I know how to handle them and the risks...).160 is really cheaping out by Trek. That's terrible.
Mine was SX chain, upgraded when I did the conversion - and also moved to wax. I only mentioned HG chain compatibility because it may be relevant for moving to other platforms - the Photon costs a lot more than many bikes.
Here's my conversion. Really happy with it, there is little I would change.
CYC PHOTON
Clean build, I like it. I just bought those grips yesterday lol
Trek was nice enough to put 180mm rotors on the front or rear of the L ,XL, XXL frames but 160mm everywhere else and on the XS, S, M, ML frames in the front/rear. It's so cheap for them to do too but they gotta save money where they can I suppose.
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raylo32
100 kW
Not sure why you guys run such small chain rings... unless maybe the larger ones won't clear your chainstay? I am running the 42t ring with 11-32 cassette on my 26" MTB and I can climb anything without bogging the motor and I don't believe I have ever even used the 2 lowest (biggest) cogs. I guess if your bike is a 29er it would change the equation a little. But I still don't see a case for those low 30s chainrings. You'll be spun out on any flats and probably also on easy climbs.
My stock one is a 30T with a 11-50 cassette and honestly it already drives me crazy without a motor. I probably only use the top 3 gears, maybe 4 on a larger incline. Granted I haven't gone on any trails or crazy hills but I just dont see a need for how this thing is geared ATM. With a motor, there's no way it would be necessary. I hope I can go larger on the chainring without having issues bc Trek says 1x/2x: 34T, 3x: 42T for my Marlin. I guess I'll just have to order a few and try them out. I was planning on a 42t or 46t though.
raylo32
100 kW
I bet the 42 will fit. Worst case is you may need to space it over a mm or 2 to the right. The kit comes with those spacers. With the motor, the 42-50 will allow you to climb a tree. CYC doesn't offer a 46 IIRC. They do offer a 50t chain ring and I am planning to put that on my gravel bike Photon build.
$50 front and rear will buy 160/180 adapters and a pair of 180mm rotors. That's not hard to convert over to. I don't really even think you need the adapters; a few months ago I realized I was missing the correct rear 160/180 adapter, used a few washers for each bolt, worked fine.
Be careful there, because the correct adapters move the calipers to the correct place. I have a friend who bought a used "high end" bike (yeah, right) where the wrong adapters had been fitted, with the pads only covering the outer half of the swept area. The results are a big step in the swept area of the rotors, and even bigger steps on the pads, which will continue wearing until the unworn surfaces contact, and then guess what?
The brakes wont work.
BTW the same owner uses CRC 5-56 to lube his chain. From a spray can.
Works great for back country and bush trails. I regularly use the larger gears, including my 42T and 50T ones. Some of the hills I ride exceed 30% grade.
I can easily pedal at 30kph in the 13T, which is about right for where I ride (almost no sealed road use). However, even when this was an acoustic bike the chain wear was pretty bad (again partly due to where I ride, but also due to the small chainring). I can ride at 45kph in my 11T and using the throttle my top speed is recorded as 61kph. I guess the motor has a reasonably easy life.
Most decent off road bikes these days have narrowish BBs and Boost 148 rears, which means the chainstays flare out sharply around the chainring to get around wider tires. In fact, my bike had 32T so 34T is a bit larger. 38T would definitely not fit. And even with the correct chainline, you cannot backpedal these modern bikes in the lowest gears.
While the move to 1x chainsets with small chainrings increases wear* and might be a bit of a fad, the wide range rear cassettes and derailleurs that make this possible have hugely increased the gear range for ebike conversions where you don't have a front derailleur.
CYC knew exactly what they were doing when they designed this system, and did a great job.
*I'm cynical and would say the manufacturers don't care. Many bikes only have light or infrequent use and might never exceed 1000km in their lifetime, and for those that get used more, well, these replacement parts are not as cheap as they should be...
I've done that a couple of times with misaligning brake adapters. On a non-ebike that was not very heavy. Braking was maybe 70% what it should have been, and it worked enough. Threw away the $20 pads later after maybe 1000 miles on one, fixed the problem earlier and saved the pads on another. Moral of the story: if you can brake well enough without crashing, your brakes are good enough. I still have 2-piston front/rear on my hub drive and they work well enough. Always look on both ends of the calipers to see how much the rotor is clearing the edges. Should be maybe 3mm on each side. Spacers alone actually can do a better job if there is not enough space with the adapter, because the one-piece adapter cannot be shrunk down, it can only be expanded by spacers behind it.
raylo32
100 kW
You will just have to figure that out during the install. Start with the new chain at full length, then put the rear derailleur cage about vertical and the chain across the chain ring and the middle cassette cog, then see which links to connect up. Just be careful to make it loose enough such that it will shift onto the biggest cog without binding the RD up and having to force it... or it not being able to make that shift at all.
Does anyone know if the Photon's distance from the motor to the axle housing (or whatever they call the first part that shoves into the bb area before the ISIS bb axle is put in), compared with a BBSxx? As in if it's the same exact measurement, or the Photon's distance is maybe 1/4 or 1/2 inch longer? That would be a huge advantage if that Photon's motor were out far enough for an S-shaped downtube or carbon frame, compared with the shorter Bafang distance.
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raylo32
100 kW
Just an update if you have been on this thread for awhile on my issue with not being able to change my wheel size from 29 to anything else in the Photon display or app. CYC confirmed my thought that I have a defective SW102 hardware or corrupted SW102 firmware. Unfortunately, unlike TSDZ2, I can't just pull out my ST Visual programmer and try reflashing it. It needs to be replaced... which means going through the vendor, etc. which has been pretty painful so far. Ugghhh. That is the downside to this system... no way for the user to do any of this stuff so we are at the mercy of CYC and their dealers. To be fair, CYC are on the ball and very responsive, but still, this is going on a month now trying to get it resolved. Luckily it is a relatively minor issue... at least this time.
Christ, I'm not doing that to my carbon bike. I think the V3 Stealth would be a better option for me if this offbrand current setup I have with throttle only and fixed cranks doesn't work out up steep hills.
Chalo
100 TW
Heck, if you have a carbon bike, you could probably do that job with manicuring tools. Plastic stuff is tricky to make at home, but easy to butcher.
I would not do that to a carbon bike either. I was just showing the dimension you asked about in the real world, the Photon is very versatile.
Besides, ISCG tabs are usually only used to fit a chain guide or bash plate, and the Photon will work fine as a bash plate
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