Green Machine said:
guys i understand trust me.
I don't think you truly do, and that's why the disconnect (and I don't think you're really reading the replies to you either). See a reply to a quote further down.
I personally like the idea of the CA being able to fully control the bike...it's just not quite possible the way you're thinking of yet, without all the other manufacturers getting into the act as well. (or making a closed system that doesnt' allow the CA to work as-intended with anything else...would only work in basic mode like it does now).
At one time when I first started figuring out how to motorize my own bike, I had a grand plan to design and build a complete system that would include everything from motor, controller, battery, monitoring, data collection, safety cutoff features, lighting, signals, etc...and eventually gave up on it cuz I just can't design it myself, and even if I did it would cost a fortune and no one would buy one.
The stand alone is literally right in the middle.
No, it's shunt is. That's all. No power flows thru the CA itself in DP or SA versions.
You could build it so that it *did* flow thru it, but then you have to run thick high-current high-voltage wires all the way up to whereever you mount your CA and back to the controller and battery, rather than the tiny thin ones that are used for data monitoring.
Alternately, you could do what I already said. Why don't you look up some of those devices here on ES (there's several design threads, including one by AgniusM that is very complex, but doesnt' actually shut power off, it *still* uses only the controller's "ignition/keyswitch" wire; could be combined with one of the others by Methods, Fechter, etc to do what you want though).
The DP has a plug to a controller (usually infinion) which can be turned on off by a signal.
Nope. Again, those are ONLY turning the throttle signal off, or engaging ebrake levers.
Typical ebike controllers, including the ones you've listed elsewhere, do not include a function to turn off.
The only thing they have is the keyswitch/ignition wire that cuts power to the logic section's power supply.
There's no provision on the CA connector for this wire, so it would require ebikes.ca and all of those manufacturers that already provide a CA plug to now either change that CA connector to a new 7-wire one, and then all CA stuff will no longer be compatible between before and after that point, or for them to add a single-pin connector to the CA and the controllers, and then add a FET in the CA for switching that (as I said before).
The CA communicates with the controller
No, it doesn't. I lost track of how many times people already told you this.
....so why cant it tap into the inineons ability to shut on and off. That is what i asked initially...is it possible?
No, becuase it doesnt' have an ability to shut on and off the way you are talking about, or to communicate.
The DP acts as if its in the middle...doing a low voltage cut off...high tempatrure cut off...
Not in the way you are thinking, it doesn't. It turns the throttle off or down, or it engages ebrake signal.
Perhaps if its not...and its impossible for the DP to communicate with the controller and signal it to power off.....then the ebikes.ca could use there engineers to provide a small on and off switch cirquit braker or wtv that solves the problem of how to cut power on and off and offer it as a stand alone feature....couldnt someone like justin develop something as simple as than in a few days? Or perhaps source the perfect part?
Please search ES for the threads I discussed previously---such a device already exists. At one time it could be purchased...but apparently not many wanted one, and so Methods probably lost a lot of money on it's development (possibly contributing to his business closing and ceasing development of new ebike products). The others are DIY ones, except for AgniusM's which doesnt' actually cut power off completely lke a breaker.
Remember also that whatever you make that works like a breaker will have to be able to handle *all* of the current the controller pulls from teh battery, and will have to be capable of the highest voltage pack anyone would possibly want to use with it.
So either you use expensive parts on all of them, or you have to keep a bunch of versions around for various current and voltage capabilities. Both of which cost money, and make the end product more expensive (possibly a lot more).
i am actually out riding ebikes a lot..and i know a lot of people to have small accidents simply by accidently throttling a parked bike.
Which would almost certainly not change, becuase they aren't going to remember to turn it off--I'd guess a fair number of those bikes already have on/off switches somewhere, that never get used.
They probably also don't have $150 CA's on them...after you add all teh stuff for the more complicated version of this switch it'll be a $200 CA, and I really doubt they'll want one then.
Ok so the DP can control the throttle...why not a feature where as the bike has been standing at 0mph for more than one minute it shuts off throttle until a button is pressed?
I'd personally want that to be user-settable, but there's probably no reason it can't be done (if it hasn't already) unless the MCU doesnt' have room for the code. (I'd need it settable because with traffic I may be sitting at a light for several minutes at a time waiting for a chance to go).
I feel like im in sunday church all over again asking all the wrong questions.
Well, I think the issue is you need to increase your understanding of exactly how the devices you want to work in a certain way *actually* work first, so you will know what limitations you're up against.
Green Machine said:
Maybe some ebike engineers could figure out how to combine this:
View attachment 1
with this:
and make it as small as possible and offer it as an extra feature for the stupid and lazy people who dont want to deal with designing (soldering) there own on and off swtich.
If you really want a circuit breaker like shown in the pic, well, it'd have to be huge because as said before it'd have to handle the highest possible current anyone would throw at their bikes, and the highest possbile voltage. Most likely it'd end up as big or bigger than a couple of LS CA's.
I have one on CB2 that isnt' even technically capable of handling what little I throw at it (though ti hasnt' failed yet in it's several years of use) and it's almost the size of the palm of my hand.
I guarantee less ebikes will be jacked...
How many less? Probably a couple less. They'll just ride them off like regular bikes instead...or throw them in their truck or van, changing their mode of theft.
It could also be equipped with a small lithium battery so it is not dependent on controller for power and has added benefit of memory of past events...past rides etc....ah reading is not cut off every time you unplug (turn off the bike) etc.
I don't know what wattmeter you use, but the CA already does that, without a battery--it's stored in flash.
(this is where it would help you a lot if you learn first how the things you want to change already work
)
In fact i was doing I believe what you guys call a "soft on/off switch" since years back. A simple on off toggle bought from mouser with a small resistor solderered between positive and negative so it does not zap when you turn it on and therefore not hard on the switch. It has an extremely low draw on the battery when the bike is not turned on...i forgot the exact draw...but its very small. RonZ (an electrical engineer) developed it for me and showed me which mouser supplies to order. It cost $3 total. It was elegant, simple and worked wonderful. It was so simple i wondered why no one is selling one ready to go.
Sounds ilke you are talking about a switch that turns the ignition wire on and off if it's a really small siwtch. If it is actually turning the main battery power on and off, to be safe it has to be rated for the max currents and voltages you'd see thru/across it.
The best engineers i know of are able to come up with elegant solutions to any problem and don't use words like impossible or cant be done.
It isn't that it is impossible--but there are limits to what can be done for a price that people are willing to pay, and as you increase the complexity you increase the price, and you decrease the number of people that will then use the product, and increase the number of poeple that will find a cheaper (less safe) alternative.
I also think DIY bikes without BMS should be illegal because its public safety hazard. We as a group have more garage/house/store fires than any other group i have heard of and its never acklowledged as a real problem.
Oh, it is--see the various threads discussing them.
The problem is that it is ignored by the builders, as would any law about such things.
It isn't the lack of a BMS that causes some of the fires, but other factors, and you'd need to go read all the fire threads to see what they might be---unfortuantely most that have fires don't ever really dig into the causes, or give full details on what led up to it, how exactly they built things, etc.
The fire argument can go on forever, because there is not enough data and wont' be, as those that have the fires cant' or won't provide it.
I don't disagree that there's a lot of safety concerns...but I think you may be looking at the wrong source of the problems. It's the mentality of the noob DIYer that is the biggest issue, and their lack of any budget or tools or often even caring one way or the other (till it's too late), that is the root cause of most of this safety stuff.
All-cell
Bms-Batttery
Lyen controllers
EMS controllers
None of these products have simple on/off switches integrated into there products. To make one you must pay extra, buy a separate switch, and implement it yourself with running unsightly wires etc. Ideally all those controller companies should have a toggle on the back including the $1000 all cell battery.
Isn't that a problem of those manufacturers? What did they tell you when you asked for a switch on their products?
FWIW, BMSBattery doesn't do anything but go find stuff at a market and send it to you (sometimes it's even what you actually ordered), so I wouldn't ever use them as an example of what is or isn't provided in/on a product.
Oh and another pet peeve of mine....the v4 cycle analyst should have a small back up battery built in...same with the cycle satiator. At the prices these devices cost you shouldnt lose your ah reading etc when the device is unplugged.
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Again, it's doesn't need one. It already saves that info. What brand of wattmeter do you use?
